I'd rather have Tristan or Whiteside Poll

[WiggyRuss]

Miami have done a pretty good rebuilding job since lebron left. How did cleveland do when lebron left the first time? Plus, true Heat fans like @TurnUpTheHeat @Heatles84 and @bksballer89 never jumped ship when he left - unlike the majority of the cavs fan base did, and will do again when he leaves for a second time!

And how has this become a Green v Whiteside discussion. You're the one who continually refuses to answer the original topic - man up for once in your life wiggy!

id say just the opposite

Cleveland accepted the fact that it had to rebuild after Bron left- bottomed out- got a ton of draft picks, young talent and cap space that eventually led to lebrons return and the Cavs return to power

the HEat? Riley couldnt go into a rebuild since hes career is coming t oa close- so- even though he KNOWS this team cant win shit- he dealt away all their short term assets not nailed down for one last miniscule chance to try and get LEBron back for showing him who is the REAL boss.

Now the HEat are just setback 3-4 years- wont win anything of consquence- and when they do eventually start their rebuild- Riley will be gone- and the Heat will owe a couple super-lightly protected first rounders to Phoenix.

Riley shouldve swallowed his pride- traded everything not nailed down- done what the Cavs did, what OKC did, what the Lakers and Sixers are doing (to varying degrees of success)- stocked up on picks, young players, cap space- and once theyhave a good foundation- jump into the FA market....


instead- the Heat will get 2-3 years of Pseudo-contention- Riley will retire- and the team will go into a MASSIVE rebuild that will take a lot longer than if Riley just tore it down and sold off assets like WAde and Bosh etc. when they had actual value.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

id say just the opposite

Cleveland accepted the fact that it had to rebuild after Bron left- bottomed out- got a ton of draft picks, young talent and cap space that eventually led to lebrons return and the Cavs return to power

the HEat? Riley couldnt go into a rebuild since hes career is coming t oa close- so- even though he KNOWS this team cant win shit- he dealt away all their short term assets not nailed down for one last miniscule chance to try and get LEBron back for showing him who is the REAL boss.

Now the HEat are just setback 3-4 years- wont win anything of consquence- and when they do eventually start their rebuild- Riley will be gone- and the Heat will owe a couple super-lightly protected first rounders to Phoenix.

Riley shouldve swallowed his pride- traded everything not nailed down- done what the Cavs did, what OKC did, what the Lakers and Sixers are doing (to varying degrees of success)- stocked up on picks, young players, cap space- and once theyhave a good foundation- jump into the FA market....


instead- the Heat will get 2-3 years of Pseudo-contention- Riley will retire- and the team will go into a MASSIVE rebuild that will take a lot longer than if Riley just tore it down and sold off assets like WAde and Bosh etc. when they had actual value.

You like your stats don't you?

2011-12 Cavs record, two years after lebron left: 21-45 (.318)

Current Heat record, two years after lebron left: 44-32 (.579)

Which team did better, simple question?

 

[WiggyRuss]

You like your stats don't you?

2011-12 Cavs record, two years after lebron left: 21-45 (.318)

Current Heat record, two years after lebron left: 44-32 (.579)

Which team did better, simple question?

Easy the Heat....obviously you didnt read my post.

5 years after LeBron left the Cavs were back in the Finals

5 years after LeBron leaves the Heat--- Riley will be retired- they will have won NOTHING- and will just be starting their rebuilding project since Riley had too much of an ego to start it right away. He knows he cant win- but is trying anyway because to rebuild would be to admit that LeBron was the reason why he won- he knows its true- but cant take it.

Id take the Sixers ROSTER and assets over the Heat anyday...when you really look at the Heat what ACTUAL assets do they have? Winslow on a rookie deal.....and thats pretty much it....Whiteside has no Bird Rights.....Bosh is damaged goods of the highest order---- Wade is being to show significant regression and has no cartilage in his knees....

Riley wanted to try and push it with this team- even though he knew they had no chance of really competing--- and its the next team President that is going to get left holding the bag after Riley retires.

 

[WiggyRuss]

the year after LeBron left the CAvs dealt Mo Williams to the Clippers for a lotto pick and took on 25 million in extra cash......that lotto pick became Kyrie

the year after LeBron left- the HEat traded 2 largely unprotected 1st rounders for Goran Dragic- and paid a guy who had never been a top 10 PG huge money after giving up substantial assets to get him- in what will amount to a wasted move that never got them close to winning anything.

thats the difference

its why 4 years later the Cavs had Kyrie, the assets to get Love, a bunch of extra picks and young players......

its why 4 yeras later for the HEat- the Heat will have the barest of draft picks (since Riley LITERALLY traded away all the picks he was allowed to), Bosh will be retired and the HEat will get nothing in return, WAde will be retired and the Heat will get nothing in return---- and they will be scraping the bottom of the barrel in the SouthEast. They will have Winslow though- who should be a good #3 i think..

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Easy the Heat....obviously you didnt read my post.

5 years after LeBron left the Cavs were back in the Finals

5 years after LeBron leaves the Heat--- Riley will be retired- they will have won NOTHING- and will just be starting their rebuilding project since Riley had too much of an ego to start it right away. He knows he cant win- but is trying anyway because to rebuild would be to admit that LeBron was the reason why he won- he knows its true- but cant take it.

Id take the Sixers ROSTER and assets over the Heat anyday...when you really look at the Heat what ACTUAL assets do they have? Winslow on a rookie deal.....and thats pretty much it....Whiteside has no Bird Rights.....Bosh is damaged goods of the highest order---- Wade is being to show significant regression and has no cartilage in his knees....

Riley wanted to try and push it with this team- even though he knew they had no chance of really competing--- and its the next team President that is going to get left holding the bag after Riley retires.

And you think Cleveland will win anything the way Gilbert has screwed you over with cap flexibility? Once lebron leaves or gets injured you guys are bottom dwellers, with NO chance of signing anyone to help because he gave out $82m contracts to below than average players.

Riley has seen 8 championships as a player, coach and executive.

Gilbert has just as many titles as you do. And that will probably remain that way.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Easy the Heat....obviously you didnt read my post.

5 years after LeBron left the Cavs were back in the Finals

5 years after LeBron leaves the Heat--- Riley will be retired- they will have won NOTHING- and will just be starting their rebuilding project since Riley had too much of an ego to start it right away. He knows he cant win- but is trying anyway because to rebuild would be to admit that LeBron was the reason why he won- he knows its true- but cant take it.

Id take the Sixers ROSTER and assets over the Heat anyday...when you really look at the Heat what ACTUAL assets do they have? Winslow on a rookie deal.....and thats pretty much it....Whiteside has no Bird Rights.....Bosh is damaged goods of the highest order---- Wade is being to show significant regression and has no cartilage in his knees....

Riley wanted to try and push it with this team- even though he knew they had no chance of really competing--- and its the next team President that is going to get left holding the bag after Riley retires.

The only reason the Cavs are or ever were anywhere was because James came back.
Without James, despite all the losing combined with all the lotto luck, you guys still sucked.

And as far as young assets (not including Whiteside) the Heat struck gold twice last summer with Winslow/Richardson and before the injury, Tyler showed he could be a productive NBA player.
No NBA championship team ever wins with just youth. 3-4 nice young players is plenty.
.

 

[trojanfan12]

I mean your logic on the game planning really only applies to centers. Realistically, there are no other defenders who can impact a game from a game plan point of view. Teams don't game plan around Kawhi, they just accept he's going to be guarding their best player and work around it.

Good point.

 

[trojanfan12]

hmmm im gonna pick that guy that starts on the historically great (is great too light a word) team--- not the guy off the bench on the middling eastern conference wanna-be's....just my opinion....lol.....

Green hasnt embarassed his team and got suspended? how many games has he missed because of injury?

Still missing the point...as usual.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

the year after LeBron left the CAvs dealt Mo Williams to the Clippers for a lotto pick and took on 25 million in extra cash......that lotto pick became Kyrie

the year after LeBron left- the HEat traded 2 largely unprotected 1st rounders for Goran Dragic- and paid a guy who had never been a top 10 PG huge money after giving up substantial assets to get him- in what will amount to a wasted move that never got them close to winning anything.

thats the difference

its why 4 years later the Cavs had Kyrie, the assets to get Love, a bunch of extra picks and young players......

its why 4 yeras later for the HEat- the Heat will have the barest of draft picks (since Riley LITERALLY traded away all the picks he was allowed to), Bosh will be retired and the HEat will get nothing in return, WAde will be retired and the Heat will get nothing in return---- and they will be scraping the bottom of the barrel in the SouthEast. They will have Winslow though- who should be a good #3 i think..

A year from retirement, we'd have that much more available cap space.
What else can you get in return for a retired player?

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

And you think Cleveland will win anything the way Gilbert has screwed you over with cap flexibility? Once lebron leaves or gets injured you guys are bottom dwellers, with NO chance of signing anyone to help because he gave out $82m contracts to below than average players.

Riley has seen 8 championships as a player, coach and executive.

Gilbert has just as many titles as you do. And that will probably remain that way.

Cavs had a 2 year window IMO (and I said it then) from when James went back, so at this point they have a 2 month window.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

mecca- offensively you play 4 on 5 with him. He is allergic to passing. So far this year he is the least efficient post scorer in the NBA (or at least was), and obviously he cant shoot. He can make a put back dunk, and he can roll on the pick and roll.

on defense- yes he is a rim deterrent. I watched a little last night where he came over and made a nice block on Barea on a shot that otherwise prob would have gone in. The next 2 possessions Pachulia catches a nifty pass for a layup on him, and then Pachulia draws contact and finishes a 3 point play against him. He does one thing good on defense- protect the rim. He is a poor one-on-one defender against any center that has any post moves- and he is hopless against any center that can shoot- ESPECIALLY if that center has 3 pt range. He cant show on the high pick and roll and get back to his guy, and he DEFINITELY cant switch ANY ASSIGNMENT.

Does the rim protection add up to a net positive when you figure he cant do those other things that are NEEDED in todays pace and space league? Obviously the stats have said that he is a net negative defensively.

you are basically playing 4-5 offensively- Wade is SIGNIFICANTLY less efficient offensively with him on the court clogging up the middle, and he impedes Dragics' push the ball style of play- and defensively while he takes pressure off the other players with his rim protection when other teams go to the rim- he is a poor post defender, and he totally puts a ton of pressure on the rest of his teammates with his total inability to play any kind of defense outside of 12 feet around the basket.

if somoene would like to tell me where their is faulty logic in this post i would be most interested to see it - because its all true.

absolutely...not even a question. Whiteside would be a disaster offensively and totally stop any kind of ball movement or pace the Cavs are trying to establish---- and defensively the CAvs greatest strength is that they have a bunch of good athletes with good size that can switch and defend multiple positiions- LeBron, Shump, Smith, Thompson....

why trade for Whiteside when you would only use him like you use Mozgov- as a matchup guy.

you think Whiteside could stay on the floor against those small lineups of the Warriors or Spurs or OKC with how they run and shoot? It would be a disaster. that "lineup of death " with draymond at center would make Whiteside look like a homeless man at a State Dinner.

its all about beating the Spurs or GSW- and Whiteside couldnt stay on the floor against those teams lineups. Thats where the conversation begins and ends with me. He would look like a fish out of water and get abused...could u even imagine him trying to run after draymond or diaw or aldridge? it would be humiliating.

i want my team to win a title- and if your gonna win a title you are gonna have to go through those teams at some point - i dont care if you are the Cavs or hornets- and Tristan matches up INFINTITELY better against them- with the style those teams play with in todays NBA- Whiteside might as well be the name of some old ferocious dinosaur from the Mesozoic Era that used to be the king of the jungle, but times and circumstances changed and he went extinct.

the only arguments you made i totally refuted when i highlighted them in red- the arguments that you made mostly had nothing to do with what i was even saying- which is a pretty common thread through this whole thing.

your only response to the multiple times Blancote has been a shithead over the years is- THAT DOESNT MEAN ITS GONNA HAPPEN AGAIN.....but it DOES keep happening over and over.

your response to the fact that he cant pass, has no reliable post move, and cant shoot is- THAT DOESNT MEAN HE CANT GET BETTER....

all your arguments are based on future expectations of which you have absolutely NO Basis to believe they will come true- just totally discounting the past as if it never happened- when its really the only predictor we can go on.

and seriously- as a Heat fan that watched his team win 2 championships with an aggressive, switching defense that got out and ran- I dont know how you can stand to watch this fool lazily roam around the paint while his teammates have to carry the burden on all the pick and rolls and switches etc....while the irrefutable data points to the team- being worse with him on the court.

not once have i EVER seen you address the fact that Wade goes from being a good offensie player to a great offensive player when there is not a 270 lb road block in the paint. As well as old age- i think that has had as much to do with Wade's inefficient year- AND Dragic's inefficient year more tha nanything- when you play 4-5 on offense- thats whats gonna happen--- guys like Dragic and Wade who typically have GREAT FG% for guards -are going to take a big ole drop when that paint is packed since no one has to respect Blancote.

well there is room for traditional centers- they just have to do traditional center things at a high level- like a Cousins, or Drummond, or Gasol, etc.

how can you expect a team to be even mediocre on offense when they have a center who A. cant shoot B. cant pass, and C. cant post up.-- the answer is you cant- your playing 4-5.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Spoelstra sent Whiteside to the bench last night for poor shot selecton/focus apparently- and he was not happy and was pouting when he sent in Haslem- from what i have read anyway.

again- Whiteside- EXTREMELY talented player...talent on a level with not many in the game- but a 2 cent head...unless you have the PERFECT setup for him and veterans and babysitters- its gonna get ugly.

this is the whole crux of my argument on whiteside- hes gonna get 20 million a year- but he can never be the leader of your team- the guys that other players look to to lead. He is always going to be a huge risk.

I am VERY interested to see what the pressure of the playoffs does to him. We will see what he can do very very soon.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Spoelstra sent Whiteside to the bench last night for poor shot selecton/focus apparently- and he was not happy and was pouting when he sent in Haslem- from what i have read anyway.

again- Whiteside- EXTREMELY talented player...talent on a level with not many in the game- but a 2 cent head...unless you have the PERFECT setup for him and veterans and babysitters- its gonna get ugly.

this is the whole crux of my argument on whiteside- hes gonna get 20 million a year- but he can never be the leader of your team- the guys that other players look to to lead. He is always going to be a huge risk.

I am VERY interested to see what the pressure of the playoffs does to him. We will see what he can do very very soon.

So Whiteside is better than thompson.

Gotcha!

 

[WiggyRuss]

good summary!

 

[Black Adam]

good summary!

what part wasn't true...?

it IS what this thread's about, ain't it...?

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

good summary!

Do you know what a summary is? It's basically a shorter version of the 5000 word bullshit you usually come up with.

But just like an NBA title, you probably weren't aware of the word "summary"

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

what part wasn't true...?

it IS what this thread's about, ain't it...?

He won't admit it though because the mighty wiggster is always right!

 

[Black Adam]

He won't admit it though because the mighty wiggster is always right!

well, guess he's a legend in his own mind, then...

America...where freedom of speech rules...

 

[WiggyRuss]

Do you know what a summary is? It's basically a shorter version of the 5000 word bullshit you usually come up with.

But just like an NBA title, you probably weren't aware of the word "summary"

I am 2 weeks from having my doctorate. It seems that you are 2 weeks from your senior year, lol....please....if you want to try and match intellects that is a game you are going to lose in a HUGE way.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

I am 2 weeks from having my doctorate. It seems that you are 2 weeks from your senior year, lol....please....if you want to try and match intellects that is a game you are going to lose in a HUGE way.

It's funny how everyone on the internet can become anything they want, aint it? I bet you also have a 14 inch dick and wrestle alligators in your spare time.

But when exactly are you moving out your mom's basement?