I'd rather have Tristan or Whiteside Poll

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

How much different would the debates on this site be if this had happened?


The Los Angeles Lakers reached out to the Cleveland Cavaliers in the summer of 2007 about a trade of Kobe Bryant for LeBron James.

Bryant was 28 years old and at the peak of his prime but he was frustrated with the state of the Lakers and seeking a trade. Bryant was under contract for two more seasons.

"At that time, the Lakers had to do something. I was just losing faith in what they were trying to do. It was like I was a meal ticket," Bryant told ESPN's Baxter Holmes this week. "You come out and score 40, 50 points, fill the seats, we're going to keep the payroll at a minimum, generate revenue. It's like, look, listen, I am not with that, dude. I have to win without Shaq. I've got to do it. We've got to do something."

James was just 22 and coming off a trip to The Finals and signed for three more seasons.

The Cavaliers' front office remembers it as the only trade call with an offer for James.

Cleveland attempted to make the Lakers a different offer for Bryant that excluded James.

"I never would've approved it. Never. The trade to go to Cleveland? Never," Bryant told Holmes. "That wasn't one of the teams that was on my list. It was Chicago, San Antonio (or) Phoenix."

The Lakers were unable to get a deal done with the Bulls because Bryant didn't approve of Luol Deng being included. A deal with the Detroit Pistons was also agreed upon for Tayshaun Prince and Richard Hamilton, but Bryant didn't have the Pistons on his list.

 

[LAD]

Wow wiggy, this Whiteside guy must have really hurt you in life. Is he dating your mom or something? You need to calm down little fella!

Expected behavior of a toddler...so should we've expected anything different from him? What's ironic is he talks about Whitesides behavior as if his is any better.

 

[LAD]

How much different would the debates on this site be if this had happened?


The Los Angeles Lakers reached out to the Cleveland Cavaliers in the summer of 2007 about a trade of Kobe Bryant for LeBron James.

Bryant was 28 years old and at the peak of his prime but he was frustrated with the state of the Lakers and seeking a trade. Bryant was under contract for two more seasons.

"At that time, the Lakers had to do something. I was just losing faith in what they were trying to do. It was like I was a meal ticket," Bryant told ESPN's Baxter Holmes this week. "You come out and score 40, 50 points, fill the seats, we're going to keep the payroll at a minimum, generate revenue. It's like, look, listen, I am not with that, dude. I have to win without Shaq. I've got to do it. We've got to do something."

James was just 22 and coming off a trip to The Finals and signed for three more seasons.

The Cavaliers' front office remembers it as the only trade call with an offer for James.

Cleveland attempted to make the Lakers a different offer for Bryant that excluded James.

"I never would've approved it. Never. The trade to go to Cleveland? Never," Bryant told Holmes. "That wasn't one of the teams that was on my list. It was Chicago, San Antonio (or) Phoenix."

The Lakers were unable to get a deal done with the Bulls because Bryant didn't approve of Luol Deng being included. A deal with the Detroit Pistons was also agreed upon for Tayshaun Prince and Richard Hamilton, but Bryant didn't have the Pistons on his list.

Very interesting...but not surprising he wouldn't want to go to Cleveland or Detroit.

 

[CitySushi]

he claims he was offered more money- but who knows if that is true at all...he has a player option for like the same 5 or 6 million i think next year- lets see how that goes...i hope he takes it- but i doubt he does with how the cap is going up....if he keeps on playing like he is right now he will get something like lou williams got from the lakers at the least.

He probably was offered more, but it was not substantially more per year. He was probably offered something in the range of a 3 year 18M. That's of course a lot more than a 1 and 1 worth 10M overall, but not on an annual basis. But what he essentially did is take a one year contract to play up his value for his next one. If his next deal is for 3 years 24-27M, then he makes much more over the course of that deal than he would have previously. That's why he took the player option. If he really wanted to play with Lebron he would have locked in the two year deal.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

d

the Cavs says- here is 5 million- take it or leave it[/B]

they knew how much he loves playing here with LeBron....and 5 million for the best 3 point shooter in the EAstern conference? n ot bad.

Or....nobody else offered him anything.

And, when you lose him and Delly next year because you're overpaying the others, then maybe you'll finally understand what we've been telling you all along.

 

[WiggyRuss]

d



Or....nobody else offered him anything.

And, when you lose him and Delly next year because you're overpaying the others, then maybe you'll finally understand what we've been telling you all along.

OMG LOSE DELLY AND JR!!! OH PLEASE SAY IT AINT SO!!!!

lol....

delly is restricted- they will keep him- as you all know about restricted free agency after i educated you the other day

I think part of the reason they are looking at Ben McLemore and other shooting wing types IS insurance in case Smith leavs- because they are not gonna pay Smith a ton of guaranteed money- you would be a fool to pay a guy with as unsettled a past as Smith anything beyond a 1 or 2 year deal...even if he has been arguably the best 3 pt shooter in the East since he was dealt to the Cavs.

 

[trojanfan12]

yah....and that was stupid- but he did it in retaliation to protect his teammates- and its exactly what he did the other day too when he got T'd up after slamming into Spencer Hawes after Hawes had a rough offensive foul against lebron..........in fact- me and Gordon discussed this at the time.

You should have stopped at "that was stupid." Nothing after that matters. He got kicked out and suspended, potentially hurting his team during the playoffs.

While I agree to a point with the "nobility" of the reason he did what he did, this is not the '80's or '90's where "vigilante justice" was not only acceptable, but expected. End of the day, under today's rules, what JR did was not only every bit as dumb as what Whiteside did, but you could make an argument that it was even dumber because it potentially hurt his team during the playoffs.

 

[WiggyRuss]

You should have stopped at "that was stupid." Nothing after that matters. He got kicked out and suspended, potentially hurting his team during the playoffs.

While I agree to a point with the "nobility" of the reason he did what he did, this is not the '80's or '90's where "vigilante justice" was not only acceptable, but expected. End of the day, under today's rules, what JR did was not only every bit as dumb as what Whiteside did, but you could make an argument that it was even dumber because it potentially hurt his team during the playoffs.

i personally think there is a significant d ifference between losing your mind for selfish reasons- and losing your mind because you are sticking up for your teammate- but i acknowledge and see the logic behind your point- regardless you are hurting your team.

however, i dont think Jae crwoder was especially happy with kelly olnyk after that game. I can without a doubt say- if Love does not get cheap shottedt- JR is not bslapping crowder.- just like the other night if LeBron isnt bulled into by HAwes (which i thought couldve been a T or an F1) then he isnt slamming into Hawes. I like that we have a team that sticks up for eacother- because that has not always been the case.

 

[trojanfan12]

i personally think there is a significant d ifference between losing your mind for selfish reasons- and losing your mind because you are sticking up for your teammate- but i acknowledge and see the logic behind your point- regardless you are hurting your team.

however, i dont think Jae crwoder was especially happy with kelly olnyk after that game. I can without a doubt say- if Love does not get cheap shottedt- JR is not bslapping crowder.

Oh, I agree. That's why I said that I agree with the "nobility" of his reason. But he has to know how things are in today's game and understand that getting kicked out and suspended doesn't help his team. In the '80's or '90's, I'd completely support what JR did.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Oh, I agree. That's why I said that I agree with the "nobility" of his reason. But he has to know how things are in today's game and understand that getting kicked out and suspended doesn't help his team. In the '80's or '90's, I'd completely support what JR did.

i remember this and was sickened by it when no one stepped up and popped Sheed...if that happened today and Jr Smith went over and sucker punched Rasheed - id pitch in for the fine.

 

[gordontrue]

This is too good...

Top 10 this season in Offensive Rating (among qualified players)

1. Tristan Thompson ▪ CLE 126.2
2. Stephen Curry ▪ GSW 125.7
3. DeAndre Jordan ▪ LAC 124.0
4. Kevin Durant ▪ OKC 123.1
5. Steven Adams ▪ OKC 121.8
6. Danilo Gallinari ▪ DEN 121.7
7. Kawhi Leonard ▪ SAS 121.6
8. Enes Kanter ▪ OKC 121.5
9. Andre Iguodala ▪ GSW 119.3
10. J.J. Redick ▪ LAC 118.9

Top 10 this season in Defensive Rating (among qualified players)

1. Hassan Whiteside ▪ MIA 93.2
2. Tim Duncan ▪ SAS 93.4
3. Kawhi Leonard ▪ SAS 94.3
4. Andre Drummond ▪ DET 96.7
5. Jared Sullinger ▪ BOS 97.5
6. DeAndre Jordan ▪ LAC 97.6
7. LaMarcus Aldridge ▪ SAS 97.7
8. Danny Green ▪ SAS 97.7
9. Paul Millsap ▪ ATL 98.0
10. Pau Gasol ▪ CHI 98.6

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

This is too good...

Top 10 this season in Offensive Rating (among qualified players)

1. Tristan Thompson ▪ CLE 126.2
2. Stephen Curry ▪ GSW 125.7
3. DeAndre Jordan ▪ LAC 124.0
4. Kevin Durant ▪ OKC 123.1
5. Steven Adams ▪ OKC 121.8
6. Danilo Gallinari ▪ DEN 121.7
7. Kawhi Leonard ▪ SAS 121.6
8. Enes Kanter ▪ OKC 121.5
9. Andre Iguodala ▪ GSW 119.3
10. J.J. Redick ▪ LAC 118.9

Top 10 this season in Defensive Rating (among qualified players)

1. Hassan Whiteside ▪ MIA 93.2
2. Tim Duncan ▪ SAS 93.4
3. Kawhi Leonard ▪ SAS 94.3
4. Andre Drummond ▪ DET 96.7
5. Jared Sullinger ▪ BOS 97.5
6. DeAndre Jordan ▪ LAC 97.6
7. LaMarcus Aldridge ▪ SAS 97.7
8. Danny Green ▪ SAS 97.7
9. Paul Millsap ▪ ATL 98.0
10. Pau Gasol ▪ CHI 98.6

Too good?
I think it's just the opposite unless you are trying to tell us you believe Tristan is somehow better offensively then those players (or pretty much any in the NBA).

I clicked on it though, and noticed that James was near the top of mpg player this season.

That's one stat that cant be twisted.

 

[gordontrue]

Too good?
I think it's just the opposite unless you are trying to tell us you believe Tristan is somehow better offensively then those players (or pretty much any in the NBA).

I clicked on it though, and noticed that James was near the top of mpg player this season.

That's one stat that cant be twisted.

Believe me, I'm not reading too much into this.

I meant "too good" in terms of how random and funny it is that TT and Whiteside are the current respective leaders in Offensive and Defensive rating.

We've got to be the only group of people in the world discussing TT vs Whiteside.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Believe me, I'm not reading too much into this.

I meant "too good" in terms of how random and funny it is that TT and Whiteside are the current respective leaders in Offensive and Defensive rating.

We've got to be the only group of people in the world discussing TT vs Whiteside.

lol...obviously usage rate is not in either stat ....did u just shit when you were looking over it and saw that? haha

and dont mind him- hes always immediately jumps to the conclusion that someone is out to get him- (turnup)
immediately i knew "just too good" was how crazy that was- ESPECIALLY since some of the other advanced stats widely prescribed to have shown Whiteside to be deficient defensively- and if i had 400 guesses i would not have guessed TT as the top of offensive efficiency rating, lol.... yah some of thsoe stats are OBVIOUSLY better than others.

 

[WiggyRuss]

And please- this following post- i am going to make some assumptions that i dont even know if they are even SOMEWHAT correct because i wouldnt even know how to check it....and ill be this first to admit this is a decent amount of reaching in this post....

but I like PER as a stat a lot- and I have to admit- Whiteside greats out VERY good for PER.....

I think this is for 2 reasons- the 2nd reason i think is the one that takes a little bit more thinking to parse out.

1. The obvious flaw in PER is that it doesnt take into account minutes played- this is the one generaly accepted known limitation of PER that everyone knows and kind of accepts. Whiteside- as a guy that averages only 28 minutes is going to benefit from this.

2. PER takes uses the counting stats- rebounds, blocks, assists, points etc. and how in previous seasons they have effected a player contribution to winning--- like they put all that shit into an equation and figure a point is worth this much to a win, and a rebound is worth this much to a win, and an assist is worth this much to a win, a block is worth this much to a win.......and ill use blocks because obviously that is where iam going with this. and PLEASE- STOP READING HERE IF YOU HAVE ZERO INTEREST- WHICH PROBABLY 90% of PEOPLE DONT----

so in PER- just to give an illustration- say we have Dikembe Mutombo- in 1995 averagfed 4.5 blocks a game--- in that season- when Mutmobo was on the floor- the Nuggets were THIS much better on defense, and we are going to divide that up between his defensive stats- defensive rebounds, blocks, whatever else- and assign each a value---- so 4.5 blocks a game in that season with that player correlated to an X amount in wins added.......and of course you do this for every player in every season in the history of the NBA since they have been collecting that stat....in 1993 Danny Ferry got .7 blocks per game and it was worth THIS much to the defense, in 1987 Mokeski had .5 blocks per game and it was worth THIS to the defense.....

What is Whiteside averaging? like 4 blocks a game?

So the computer sees that- and is projecting off of- holy shit! we have a guy with 4 blocks per game? That doesnt happen often- and almost every time it happens- it has a huge effect on the defense--- INDEPENDENT of what the actual block means--- thats not even important- its the effect that the blocks have on the overall defense.....

So it sees 4 blocks - and understandably it assigns a very high value to that- ESPECIALLY since- Blocks is such a small counting stat- in increase in blocks from 2- which is a pretty decent number- to 4- is the difference between being a solid defender- and being a potential hall of fame defender- and the stat knows this.....

except when the player goes OUT OF HIS WAY to get blocks at the expense of the defense...im assuming- and maybe this is a wrong assumption--- that back in the day in the NBA nobody was going out of their way to brag to their twitter followers "nobody is doing it with blocks". When Dikembe Mutombo was averaging 4.5 blocks per game- you could TELL- its having a blow-me-away effect onthe defense.

Do we see that with Whiteside? seriously think about that--- in the history of the league- when you have a guy averaging 4 blocks a game- you NOTICE that guy- and that defense is fucking awesome. I just dont see that with Whiteside at all- which backs up the theory that he is just chasing blocks. the value PEr assigns 4.0 blocks for Whiteside inPER is not NEAR what the value what 4 blocks would be for the defensive contribution of anyone else- because he is hunting for those blocks at the expense of the team- and because blocks are such a small number with such a large variation (compared to points- an average point scorer goes on a 100% increase from 12 points to 24- obviously a 100% increase for blocks is 2-4-- thats a LOT more volatile), it is even MORe pronounced.

I wonder what Whitesides PER would be if you cut his blocks by 1.5--- but his defense was actually BETTER...

 

[Wamu]

And please- this following post- i am going to make some assumptions that i dont even know if they are even SOMEWHAT correct because i wouldnt even know how to check it....and ill be this first to admit this is a decent amount of reaching in this post....

but I like PER as a stat a lot- and I have to admit- Whiteside greats out VERY good for PER.....

I think this is for 2 reasons- the 2nd reason i think is the one that takes a little bit more thinking to parse out.

1. The obvious flaw in PER is that it doesnt take into account minutes played- this is the one generaly accepted known limitation of PER that everyone knows and kind of accepts. Whiteside- as a guy that averages only 28 minutes is going to benefit from this.

2. PER takes uses the counting stats- rebounds, blocks, assists, points etc. and how in previous seasons they have effected a player contribution to winning--- like they put all that shit into an equation and figure a point is worth this much to a win, and a rebound is worth this much to a win, and an assist is worth this much to a win, a block is worth this much to a win.......and ill use blocks because obviously that is where iam going with this. and PLEASE- STOP READING HERE IF YOU HAVE ZERO INTEREST- WHICH PROBABLY 90% of PEOPLE DONT----

so in PER- just to give an illustration- say we have Dikembe Mutombo- in 1995 averagfed 4.5 blocks a game--- in that season- when Mutmobo was on the floor- the Nuggets were THIS much better on defense, and we are going to divide that up between his defensive stats- defensive rebounds, blocks, whatever else- and assign each a value---- so 4.5 blocks a game in that season with that player correlated to an X amount in wins added.......and of course you do this for every player in every season in the history of the NBA since they have been collecting that stat....in 1993 Danny Ferry got .7 blocks per game and it was worth THIS much to the defense, in 1987 Mokeski had .5 blocks per game and it was worth THIS to the defense.....

What is Whiteside averaging? like 4 blocks a game?

So the computer sees that- and is projecting off of- holy shit! we have a guy with 4 blocks per game? That doesnt happen often- and almost every time it happens- it has a huge effect on the defense--- INDEPENDENT of what the actual block means--- thats not even important- its the effect that the blocks have on the overall defense.....

So it sees 4 blocks - and understandably it assigns a very high value to that- ESPECIALLY since- Blocks is such a small counting stat- in increase in blocks from 2- which is a pretty decent number- to 4- is the difference between being a solid defender- and being a potential hall of fame defender- and the stat knows this.....

except when the player goes OUT OF HIS WAY to get blocks at the expense of the defense...im assuming- and maybe this is a wrong assumption--- that back in the day in the NBA nobody was going out of their way to brag to their twitter followers "nobody is doing it with blocks". When Dikembe Mutombo was averaging 4.5 blocks per game- you could TELL- its having a blow-me-away effect onthe defense.

Do we see that with Whiteside? seriously think about that--- in the history of the league- when you have a guy averaging 4 blocks a game- you NOTICE that guy- and that defense is fucking awesome. I just dont see that with Whiteside at all- which backs up the theory that he is just chasing blocks. the value PEr assigns 4.0 blocks for Whiteside inPER is not NEAR what the value what 4 blocks would be for the defensive contribution of anyone else- because he is hunting for those blocks at the expense of the team- and because blocks are such a small number with such a large variation (compared to points- an average point scorer goes on a 100% increase from 12 points to 24- obviously a 100% increase for blocks is 2-4-- thats a LOT more volatile), it is even MORe pronounced.

I wonder what Whitesides PER would be if you cut his blocks by 1.5--- but his defense was actually BETTER...

is this !? I ain't reading that...

 

[WiggyRuss]

is this !? I ain't reading that...



View attachment 87704

DEFINITELY dont expect you too, lol

 

[Wamu]

DEFINITELY dont expect you too, lol

Is there any chance you could starting limiting your comments to 5 words or fewer?

 

[anotheridiot]

Tristan will always be remembered as that guy that James got paid period. No offense, then he declines an 80 million dollar deal until the up it to 84? Thats FU money.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Tristan will always be remembered as that guy that James got paid period. No offense, then he declines an 80 million dollar deal until the up it to 84? Thats FU money.

its actually worse than that- he held out to go from 80 to 82 supposedly-- and the extra 2 was basically just offered so he could save face.