i shouldnt do this but i cant walk away

[skinsdad62]

QUOTE="skinsdad62, post: 10351429, member: 1615"]you cant period . it doesnt pay too. you would have to get a 3rd rounder or above to make it work and on a half year or less rental i doubt it happens at all

Maybe I was not clear, so, knowing for certain that the end game is Kirk to S.F. and at best a 3rd rounder for us, would it had been better to trade him in 2015, 2016, or before the draft this year?

My confidence in Bruce Allen makes whale shit seem high. I knew back in 2015 that this team wasn't going to sign Cousins long term. To me those holding onto the notion that Kirk would be signed year after year, suggested that they were pitting "doing the right thing" against some confidence in Allen to do that. Not me!![/QUOTE]

i wouldnt have traded him at all , in fact twice we could have signed him for what now is a bargain . the FO killed both deals . now back then i argued if you waited the cost would go up if he did well . no resistance to that was offered at the time . the general consensus was "let him prove it " and we will pay later until later came and paying up wasnt on the menu anymore

i still believe a deal will get done. if we have a good year with a playoff win then i cant see why you would take a step back . yes eventually you can get a qb , but how long will it take

 

[Sportster 72]

I don't think there has been a good time. Halfway through the 25 season you probably wouldn't have got much for him. Since then he has had value but was going to be a FA at then end of 15, 16 and now 17. Who is going to give fair market value for him because of that.

If you want to let him go then I think the move is to transition tag him.

 

[Skin'EmAll]

He completed 63.5 percent of his passes in his best season.

He has never had a 100 rating for a season.

He reminds me a lot of Bob except his body has held up a little better. Now he is often injured and they want to take his legs away to preserve the rest of him.

8-8
8-8

Those are the last two seasons for Indy in the worst division in football.

But, he is the greatest.

Not sure if "highly over rated" is fair. The Colts did the minimum to put talent around the savior, and I believe the defensive talent this year is the worst in the division. At the same time, the stats you posted, in the division he plays in do make him look average.

 

[ehb5]

RG3 isn't athletic enough to be a wr. He'd trip and stumble running every route. I have never seen a football player as uncoordinated as RG3. I still love the guy but no way could he handle any other position.

Wha?

 

[j_y19]

i cant make the argument that teams win games when defending KC but say its all on luck for his 8-8's

my question is how does snyderallen let KC go to the 49ers ?

They don't really have a choice now. KC has all the leverage. They only way they can stop him is to tag him one more year.

 

[j_y19]

A very good question @dad....to me the the combination of poor timing, lack of confidence, a lack of the conventional NFL structure all contributed to the current situation leading to a possible San Fran reunion. The latter being the biggest factor of them all.

Since you've mentioned it, I have a question for everyone. In retrospect, and a dead certainty that Kirk walks after this season with no possibility that he signs here, when would have been the best time to trade him for maximum benefit?

The best time to have traded him was before the draft this year (after he was tagged). Let any team that could negotiate a deal with KC long term make an offer.

 

[gkekoa]

Not sure if "highly over rated" is fair. The Colts did the minimum to put talent around the savior, and I believe the defensive talent this year is the worst in the division. At the same time, the stats you posted, in the division he plays in do make him look average.

I say highly overrated because they thought he was the best thing since Elway.

They still try to build him up as some great thing when I just don't see it. He has flashes and he isn't bad, but he is far from great and I would say worse than KC.

I don't buy the argument they did a minimum to put talent around him. After they selected him in round 1, they selected Fleenor, Allen, and Hilton in rounds 2 and 3.

In 2013, they selected Hugh Thornton in the third, to help protect him.

In 2014, they selected Jack Mewhort and Donte Moncrief in the second and third rounds.

In 2015, they selected Dorset in round 1.

In 2016, they selected Kelly in round 1 and Clark in round 3.


I think the biggest mistake they made was letting Arians leave and keeping Pagano even today.

 

[Stymietee]

The best time to have traded him was before the draft this year (after he was tagged). Let any team that could negotiate a deal with KC long term make an offer.

I've been thinking that the non-exclusive tag should have been used. Maybe I'm wrong about this, and I'll stand corrected if so, but with that tag Cousins could negotiate with another team, we could match or get two No. 1's in exchange. Suggested it two years ago, again last year, and have little faith that Bruce uses it after this season. Again, maybe I'm completely wrong, and somehow they sign him LT, but another tag that commands a 32 - 34 million pay and I believe that the most ardent KC followers will cringe at the lack of wisdom in that.

 

[j_y19]

I

I've been thinking that the non-exclusive tag should have been used. Maybe I'm wrong about this, and I'll stand corrected if so, but with that tag Cousins could negotiate with another team, we could match or get two No. 1's in exchange. Suggested it two years ago, again last year, and have little faith that Bruce uses it after this season. Again, maybe I'm completely wrong, and somehow they sign him LT, but another tag that commands a 32 - 34 million pay and I believe that the most ardent KC followers will cringe at the lack of wisdom in that.

I'm not a tag expert, but if he was tagged non-exclusive and worked out a deal with another team, all the Redskins could do was either match the deal and keep him or get a compensatory pick (3rd or 4th rounder, I think). Now we could have worked out more compensation with the new team so as not to match the offer. In that scenario, either tag would have probably worked. But I don't think we would have ever received 2 #1s in return for KC only because the other team could just wait until after this season and sign him as a FA.

 

[gkekoa]

I

I'm not a tag expert, but if he was tagged non-exclusive and worked out a deal with another team, all the Redskins could do was either match the deal and keep him or get a compensatory pick (3rd or 4th rounder, I think). Now we could have worked out more compensation with the new team so as not to match the offer. In that scenario, either tag would have probably worked. But I don't think we would have ever received 2 #1s in return for KC only because the other team could just wait until after this season and sign him as a FA.

Actually, the non-exclusive tag rewards you with two firsts.

Every team gets one FT (exclusive or non-exclusive) per season and one transition tag. Transition can only be used if we don't use a FT.

 

[j_y19]

Actually, the non-exclusive tag rewards you with two firsts.

Every team gets one FT (exclusive or non-exclusive) per season and one transition tag.

OK. As i said, I'm not a cap expert. If that is the case, it probably was the best move in hindsight.

 

[redskin4209]

How you doing Sty, it's been a while since we cross path's. Had to take a break. I see many here are still talking about KC lol. My thoughts are still the same about KC. Not sold on KC just yet.

Kirk Cousins’ starting record: 19-21-1
Cousins’ record against teams with 9+ wins: 2-11
Teams with 8+ wins: 5-13

Now if you look at our schedule this yr

vs. PHILADELPHIA EAGLES
at Los Angeles Rams
vs. OAKLAND RAIDERS
at Kansas City Chiefs
BYE
vs. SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS
at Philadelphia Eagles
vs. DALLAS COWBOYS
at Seattle Seahawks
vs. MINNESOTA VIKINGS
at New Orleans Saints
vs. NEW YORK GIANTS
at Dallas Cowboys
at Los Angeles Chargers
vs. ARIZONA CARDINALS
vs. DENVER BRONCOS
at NEW YORK GIANTS

From vs Dallas on down to the last game at the Giants and throw in the Chiefs and the Raiders whew!!! that's a very tough schedule. I'm in that we shall see group about Cousins. The fact are still the same for me.

 

[gkekoa]

We can still see about KC by signing him long term, or we could have. That is the point we are trying to make.

If you sign him LT at the end of 2014, what was it, 12 mil a season? We would be paying him nothing instead of 24 million but we could still be "seeing" about him cheaply.

If we sign him at the end of 2015, 19 mil a season. Instead, we paid 20 mil for 2016 and 24 mil this season, and likely 28 mil next season.

If we signed him Long term at the end of 2016, 24 mil a season. Instead we are paying 24 mil this season and likely 28 mil next season. In any of these contracts, we could have used the time to "see about KC" while paying him a much cheaper rate. Then if we see he isn't worth it after two years on any of these contracts, we could have cut him loose with little penalty.

 

[Stymietee]

How you doing Sty, it's been a while since we cross path's. Had to take a break. I see many here are still talking about KC lol. My thoughts are still the same about KC. Not sold on KC just yet.

Kirk Cousins’ starting record: 19-21-1
Cousins’ record against teams with 9+ wins: 2-11
Teams with 8+ wins: 5-13

Now if you look at our schedule this yr

vs. PHILADELPHIA EAGLES
at Los Angeles Rams
vs. OAKLAND RAIDERS
at Kansas City Chiefs
BYE
vs. SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS
at Philadelphia Eagles
vs. DALLAS COWBOYS
at Seattle Seahawks
vs. MINNESOTA VIKINGS
at New Orleans Saints
vs. NEW YORK GIANTS
at Dallas Cowboys
at Los Angeles Chargers
vs. ARIZONA CARDINALS
vs. DENVER BRONCOS
at NEW YORK GIANTS

From vs Dallas on down to the last game at the Giants and throw in the Chiefs and the Raiders whew!!! that's a very tough schedule. I'm in that we shall see group about Cousins. The fact are still the same for me.

I'm good man, how're you doing? Anything special going on during your break? Took some time myself as I do annually from posting.

Well, truthfully I'm sold on Kirk, but only to the extent that he'll not be the type of guy that makes this team unstable at the position. He's a pretty good QB for what's asked of him and if he stays we'll be OK just as long as the differing parts of the team around him ranks somewhere above middle of the pack. In my final analysis, with him, we'll always be in contention for a playoff spot....a yearly 7-9 to 10-6 middle of the pack type team depending on health and a few good breaks. On the other hand, getting a playoff win or two and SB dreams, without a stellar defense, a running game that takes the ball out of his hands a lot more (missed on Mixon, but I'm impressed that they selected Perine) is IMO the ONLY way that we get there with him. Sort of today's version of Theismann.

That is one daunting schedule and I believe that the path to a playoff spot comes within the division. I kinda look at trends, so, in the last two seasons this team was 9-7 and 8-7-1. Reading from left to right the trend points towards a 7-9 finish and splits within the division. Reading from right to left, (alternating finishes) the trend points to a 10-6 finish and a couple of sweeps within the division. Of course the caveat is that it's early and strange things happen that alter team's fortunes.

 

[Stymietee]

We can still see about KC by signing him long term, or we could have. That is the point we are trying to make.

If you sign him LT at the end of 2014, what was it, 12 mil a season? We would be paying him nothing instead of 24 million but we could still be "seeing" about him cheaply.

If we sign him at the end of 2015, 19 mil a season. Instead, we paid 20 mil for 2016 and 24 mil this season, and likely 28 mil next season.

If we signed him Long term at the end of 2016, 24 mil a season. Instead we are paying 24 mil this season and likely 28 mil next season. In any of these contracts, we could have used the time to "see about KC" while paying him a much cheaper rate. Then if we see he isn't worth it after two years on any of these contracts, we could have cut him loose with little penalty.

Everything that you've stated is 100% true, which makes Bruce Allen an extremely lucky person to have an owner like Dan Snyder. I wonder if there's another owner/ GM-team president relationship in the game where the GM-team president does everything to cost more money in this regard while simultaneously jeopardizing that player's longevity and having NO apparent plan B in place?

 

[Sportster 72]

How you doing Sty, it's been a while since we cross path's. Had to take a break. I see many here are still talking about KC lol. My thoughts are still the same about KC. Not sold on KC just yet.

Kirk Cousins’ starting record: 19-21-1
Cousins’ record against teams with 9+ wins: 2-11
Teams with 8+ wins: 5-13

Now if you look at our schedule this yr

vs. PHILADELPHIA EAGLES
at Los Angeles Rams
vs. OAKLAND RAIDERS
at Kansas City Chiefs
BYE
vs. SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS
at Philadelphia Eagles
vs. DALLAS COWBOYS
at Seattle Seahawks
vs. MINNESOTA VIKINGS
at New Orleans Saints
vs. NEW YORK GIANTS
at Dallas Cowboys
at Los Angeles Chargers
vs. ARIZONA CARDINALS
vs. DENVER BRONCOS
at NEW YORK GIANTS

From vs Dallas on down to the last game at the Giants and throw in the Chiefs and the Raiders whew!!! that's a very tough schedule. I'm in that we shall see group about Cousins. The fact are still the same for me.

And a top 5 rate QB in his two starting years. Just wanted to get ALL the facts in there. I'll listen to your record stats but you should add to them every time the D or kicker cost the team (him) a win. Such as Detroit and Cincinnati last year. BTW his two years as the actual starter are 17-14-1. Hell that could be 19-14 if the D can stop Detroit - you know ... the game he led the team to a go ahead TD with 1:05 to go. And the game in Cinn. where he led them to what could have been a game winning FG but Hopkins missed it.

 

[Skin'EmAll]

I say highly overrated because they thought he was the best thing since Elway.

They still try to build him up as some great thing when I just don't see it. He has flashes and he isn't bad, but he is far from great and I would say worse than KC.

I don't buy the argument they did a minimum to put talent around him. After they selected him in round 1, they selected Fleenor, Allen, and Hilton in rounds 2 and 3.

In 2013, they selected Hugh Thornton in the third, to help protect him.

In 2014, they selected Jack Mewhort and Donte Moncrief in the second and third rounds.

In 2015, they selected Dorset in round 1.

In 2016, they selected Kelly in round 1 and Clark in round 3.


I think the biggest mistake they made was letting Arians leave and keeping Pagano even today.

I want to tread lightly but narcissism aside, do you think Luck was that much better than Griffin?
Since you've been willing to shoot at a guy who is suppose to be bullet proof -- personally I think its a shame Griffin isn't playing well somewhere after what we saw he could have done. It looks like the Colts are doing the EXACT same thing -- putting all this responsibility on a guy with no ELITE help on offense or defense.
(for people that want to see something that is NOT there, I'm happy with Cousins)

 

[Breed]

bring back rg3 maybe proyer can help him to become a wr if not rg3 career is over

Fuck bringing Griffin back and his career is already over.

 

[Breed]

I want to tread lightly but narcissism aside, do you think Luck was that much better than Griffin?
Since you've been willing to shoot at a guy who is suppose to be bullet proof -- personally I think its a shame Griffin isn't playing well somewhere after what we saw he could have done. It looks like the Colts are doing the EXACT same thing -- putting all this responsibility on a guy with no ELITE help on offense or defense.
(for people that want to see something that is NOT there, I'm happy with Cousins)

Luck is the best young QB in the game. Its easy to hate on him now cuz the beatings he taken over the last 5 years have caught up to him. IMO if he was healthy and QBing the Redskins the last two years. The Skins would've won 20+ games, made two playoff appearances instead of one and have a playoff win.

 

[Skin'EmAll]

Luck is the best young QB in the game. Its easy to hate on him now cuz the beatings he taken over the last 5 years have caught up to him. IMO if he was healthy and QBing the Redskins the last two years. The Skins would've won 20+ games, made two playoff appearances instead of one and have a playoff win.

I think the NFL was hoping they could pass the "face" torch to Luck, but whether it was his rookie year or ultimate goals, he is already behind. I'm sure he is hated in some circles but often he gets the benefit of the doubt -- bad offensive coordinator, no offensive line, etc. Regardless, losing in one of the weakest divisions in football and not being able to stay on the field puts into question whether you are the "best"