I predict the Pacers will win the championship next season w/Oladipo and Sabonis

[trojanfan12]

Wow you really do have a hidden hatred about Westbrook don't you?

Not at all. I love Westbrook. I love how hard he plays on both ends of the floor and how he shows up every single game and leaves everything on the floor. I love how he attacks the rim like it called his Mama a whore. I love his athleticism.

What I do not love is how he reverts to hero ball, forgets he has teammates and tries to win games by himself. He even did it with arguably the 2nd best player in the world on his team. I don't love how jacking up crazy 3's, when he isn't that good from 3 point range anyway, is part of his hero ball antics. I also don't love the turnovers that often times result from his hero ball.

He doesn't have Kobe's basketball iq or his outside shot. That's not hate, it's fact.

Here's a clue for you, legitimate, basketball related criticism of his game isn't hate. However, the stuff you have been saying about PG is hate.

 

[trojanfan12]

George now joins with one of the league's best players (Westbrook) and GMs (Presti). If he's not happy there I'll go out on a limb and say he won't be happy anywhere.

I disagree. If LA is truly where he wants to play, there is a better chance that he's happy there. There's a lot more to a players happiness than the team they are on. If there wasn't, no player would ever leave a really good team.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

I disagree. If LA is truly where he wants to play, there is a better chance that he's happy there. There's a lot more to a players happiness than the team they are on. If there wasn't, no player would ever leave a really good team.

Exactly Right.....I live in NYC, and "visit" many places around the country, and by the end of most trips, cant wait to get home......The difference between living in LA and OKC, I cant even imagine, especially once the finances are all but equal

 

[HurricaneDij39]

I disagree. If LA is truly where he wants to play, there is a better chance that he's happy there. There's a lot more to a players happiness than the team they are on. If there wasn't, no player would ever leave a really good team.

Well he's not going to find a better "basketball" situation than the one he's currently in with OKC. That's the point I was making there. Unless, of course, he takes a veteran minimum deal with Golden State.

 

[trojanfan12]

Well he's not going to find a better "basketball" situation than the one he's currently in with OKC. That's the point I was making there. Unless, of course, he takes a veteran minimum deal with Golden State.

That's not necessarily true. There is still the fact that Russell Westbrook can be very difficult to play with.

The system that the Lakers run is very similar to the system that GSW runs and the Lakers just drafted a pass first point guard that folks seem to be excited about.

Obviously, as far as playoff runs and winning a lot of games, OKC is much better than the Lakers right now. But that can change very quickly. The Lakers are looking to have enough cap space to sign 2 max FA's next off-season. They land PG and another top FA or just 2 other top FA's and things will be looking better in LA than OKC.

 

[tlance]

Interesting that @tlance never got back to me regarding Pacers coaches. Let me break it down even further simply because I could...

Ever since Bird resigned following our 2000 Finals appearance, the Pacers have always either hired either someone within the organization or someone else's castoff. Let's look at the list:

• Isiah Thomas - Retread of the Raptors organization
• Rick Carlisle - A former assistant under Bird. To his credit, he later won a title with the Mavs after he left the Pacers. But, Carlisle's downfall in Indiana was his unwillingness to push the pace and as well as an inability to hold players accountable at the time.
• Jim O'Brien - Retread of both the Celtics and Sixers
• Frank Vogel - Former assistant under O'Brien
• Nate McMillan - Former assistant under Vogel and retread of the Blazers

Vogel's teams were consistently among the worst teams in the NBA in terms of offensive production, and it took him a single year...One year, after he was let go by the Pacers he had helped get his GM fired in Orlando. The writing is in the pudding - Vogel is not a good NBA head coach.

What the Pacers need is a young, energetic coach from outside the organization. Stack fits the bill. He won COY and the D-League championship in his first season as HC at any level this past season...

LOL.

You are really out to get crushed today, aren't you?

I don't care where they came from. Carlisle was a very good coach and Vogel was/is above average. Pacers had bad offense because they had a crappy roster. Vogel was not the problem. You thought McMillan would be a savior when he was hired. Look how that worked!

Vogel ain't Pop. He isn't going to add 10 wins a year, but he is solid. The problem is and has always been your unrealistic expectations for the Pacers' performance. When they don't live up to your pie in the sky hopes, you claim the coach.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Todd, you fat sack of shit.

Wanna make a bet the Lakers do better than the Pacers this season?

 

[thunderc]

That's not necessarily true. There is still the fact that Russell Westbrook can be very difficult to play with.

The system that the Lakers run is very similar to the system that GSW runs and the Lakers just drafted a pass first point guard that folks seem to be excited about.

Obviously, as far as playoff runs and winning a lot of games, OKC is much better than the Lakers right now. But that can change very quickly. The Lakers are looking to have enough cap space to sign 2 max FA's next off-season. They land PG and another top FA or just 2 other top FA's and things will be looking better in LA than OKC.

I respect your opinion about this a great deal, but I too agree you are a bit hard on Westbrook. You have to realize that he and KD came up together. I have seen virtually every game that the played together and I can tell you that come crunch time he deferred to KD most all the time. Now the argument could be made that he should have done it more before crunch time but KD wasn't always as efficient as he is right now either. I expect Westbrook to reign it in now that the Thunder appear to have a more balanced team than last year, but when Westbrook is at his best it's hard to complain about him having the ball in his hands.

 

[Black Adam]

Todd, you fat sack of shit.

Wanna make a bet the Lakers do better than the Pacers this season?

oooooo...

wouldn't take that, Clod...

 

[broncosmitty]

Is that why Durant win the scoring title 4 times with the Thunder?

People are going way too over the top with their criticisms of Westbrook.

It's kinda crazy to me.


He's led his team in shots once.

 

[tlance]

It's kinda crazy to me.


He's led his team in shots once.

Well, he is a point guard and he had one of the best scorers in NBA history on his team for the first 7 years of his career. Shot totals between he and KD really never should have even been close. Should have been about 65-35 split. That isn't a knock on Russ either. It is just that KD is that good at scoring.

KD has only averaged over 20 FGAs per game 2 times. It isn't likely to happen in GS either, but they have much better scoring options playing alongside him.

Westbrook has averaged 22.0 and 24.0 FGAs per game in the seasons mostly without KD. In the other years, playing with KD, he ranged between 17 and 19 shots which is almost as many as KD had.

When one player has a career true shooting percentage of 53.3% and the other is 60.8%, there should be more disparity in shot attempts. And, it is the point guard's job to realize that.

 

[broncosmitty]

Well, he is a point guard and he had one of the best scorers in NBA history on his team for the first 7 years of his career. Shot totals between he and KD really never should have even been close. Should have been about 65-35 split. That isn't a knock on Russ either. It is just that KD is that good at scoring.

KD has only averaged over 20 FGAs per game 2 times. It isn't likely to happen in GS either, but they have much better scoring options playing alongside him.

Westbrook has averaged 22.0 and 24.0 FGAs per game in the seasons mostly without KD. In the other years, playing with KD, he ranged between 17 and 19 shots which is almost as many as KD had.

When one player has a career true shooting percentage of 53.3% and the other is 60.8%, there should be more disparity in shot attempts. And, it is the point guard's job to realize that.

His teammate led the league in scoring four times. While averaging five assists twice. I guess Durant could've shot more. Westbrook can't make his teammates put it up every time they touch it.


I really don't know what you guys want from him. He shoots more without Durant and has put up 10 assists per in back to back seasons. But it's like people want to paint a picture that RW held him back or something.

 

[tlance]

His teammate led the league in scoring four times. While averaging five assists twice. I guess Durant could've shot more. Westbrook can't make his teammates put it up every time they touch it.


I really don't know what you guys want from him. He shoots more without Durant and has put up 10 assists per in back to back seasons. But it's like people want to paint a picture that RW held him back or something.

That isn't the point.

He takes way too many bad shots. Always has. It was more harmful when KD was on the team then it is now. Still, a bad decision is a bad decision.

Also, just measuring assists by themselves isn't all that meaningful. Guys who dominate the ball should get a lot of assists. It isn't that Russ held KD back, it is that he led the team back by not getting the ball where it needed to go enough.

On those Thunder teams, KD should have averaged 22-25 FGs per game. He never got there.

 

[HurricaneDij39]

Todd, you fat sack of shit.

Wanna make a bet the Lakers do better than the Pacers this season?

I'll get back to you in a couple weeks...Got some things going right now.

 

[HurricaneDij39]

Pacers just added Bogdanovic on a short deal. In other words, the Pacers are going to have a bunch of guys with a lot to prove and a team ready to overachieve.

 

[HurricaneDij39]

LOL.

You are really out to get crushed today, aren't you?

I don't care where they came from. Carlisle was a very good coach and Vogel was/is above average. Pacers had bad offense because they had a crappy roster. Vogel was not the problem. You thought McMillan would be a savior when he was hired. Look how that worked!

Vogel ain't Pop. He isn't going to add 10 wins a year, but he is solid. The problem is and has always been your unrealistic expectations for the Pacers' performance. When they don't live up to your pie in the sky hopes, you claim the coach.

What I basically said last year at this time was that McMillan had an above average track record and deserved a chance. That said, he proved this year to be passed him time and this is a young man's league. See Brad Stevens in Boston and Jason Kidd in Milwaukee.

You seem to be having a good time patting yourself on the back and ignoring the vast majority of my post, so carry on.

 

[tlance]

What I basically said last year at this time was that McMillan had an above average track record and deserved a chance. That said, he proved this year to be passed him time and this is a young man's league. See Brad Stevens in Boston and Jason Kidd in Milwaukee.

You seem to be having a good time patting yourself on the back and ignoring the vast majority of my post, so carry on.

Has nothing to do with the majority of your post.

You were leading the bandwagon asking for Vogel to be fired a full year before he was. I told you then he wasn't the problem. I also told you McMillan wasn't the answer.

As usual, you were wrong.

 

[trojanfan12]

I respect your opinion about this a great deal, but I too agree you are a bit hard on Westbrook. You have to realize that he and KD came up together. I have seen virtually every game that the played together and I can tell you that come crunch time he deferred to KD most all the time. Now the argument could be made that he should have done it more before crunch time but KD wasn't always as efficient as he is right now either. I expect Westbrook to reign it in now that the Thunder appear to have a more balanced team than last year, but when Westbrook is at his best it's hard to complain about him having the ball in his hands.

Agree with pretty much all of this. My issue with Westbrook isn't that he takes over games, it's when he does it and that he doesn't seem to know how to stop himself when he isn't on.

That's why I say Westbrook is Kobe without the basketball iq or outside shot. Kobe also had a penchant for playing hero ball late in close games and forgetting that he had teammates.

When he's on, there's nothing wrong with that. Part of a star players job is to take over games when necessary and when a guy like Westbrook gets going, he's virtually unstoppable.

The difference, imo, is that when Kobe's game was off, he wouldn't shoot quite as much or would defer a little more later in games.

To me, that is what Westbrook lacks. Watching him try to beat the Warriors by himself when the Thunder blew that 3-1 lead was both frustrating and sad. He was jacking up crazy 3's and making out of control drives to the basket that resulted in missed shots or turnovers. Meanwhile, he has the 2nd best player in the world standing off to the side watching.

I will say, in Westbrooks defense, that KD has played with him long enough that he should know that Westbrook gets tunnel vision. He should have been screaming for the ball instead of allowing himself to be turned into a spectator and he probably should have done it years ago. If he had, maybe they are able to figure it out and KD is still in OKC.

 

[HurricaneDij39]

Well, he is a point guard and he had one of the best scorers in NBA history on his team for the first 7 years of his career. Shot totals between he and KD really never should have even been close. Should have been about 65-35 split. That isn't a knock on Russ either. It is just that KD is that good at scoring.

KD has only averaged over 20 FGAs per game 2 times. It isn't likely to happen in GS either, but they have much better scoring options playing alongside him.

Westbrook has averaged 22.0 and 24.0 FGAs per game in the seasons mostly without KD. In the other years, playing with KD, he ranged between 17 and 19 shots which is almost as many as KD had.

When one player has a career true shooting percentage of 53.3% and the other is 60.8%, there should be more disparity in shot attempts. And, it is the point guard's job to realize that.

Fact - Durant averaged 32 PPG on year in OKC while Westbrook missed a chunk of games recovering for offseason knee surgery.

Likewise, in Michael Jordan's third year with the Bulls and the year before Pippen arrived, he averaged a career-high 37.1 PPG. Clearly, Pippen was such a ballhog as is was HIS JOB as the Bulls primary facilitator to feed arguably the greatest player of all time in his spots.

Amazing how the same dynamite logic can be used in other ways, isn't it?

Unfortunately, tlance isn't capable of ever admitting he's wrong...

 

[tlance]

Fact - Durant averaged 32 PPG on year in OKC while Westbrook missed a chunk of games recovering for offseason knee surgery.

Likewise, in Michael Jordan's third year with the Bulls and the year before Pippen arrived, he averaged a career-high 37.1 PPG. Clearly, Pippen was such a ballhog as is was HIS JOB as the Bulls primary facilitator to feed arguably the greatest player of all time in his spots.

Amazing how the same dynamite logic can be used in other ways, isn't it?

Unfortunately, tlance isn't capable of ever admitting he's wrong...

I am not wrong. This post is legitimately terrible.

The year KD scored 32, he also shot over 50% from the field. Jordan shot 48.2% during his 37 point per game year and was well over 50% the next 5 seasons. It Westbrook were that efficient, I would not have a problem with him shooting as much as he does. But, he shoots 43.3% for his career and tends to jack at the worst possible moments.

And no, Who would ever say Pippen was a ball hog? Jordan's scoring average went down because he started trusting his teammates more and had better players around him.

By the way, Jordan never averaged fewer than 22.2 FG attempts per game while paired with Pippen, and he averaged 25.7 in 93. KD on the other hand? He has only averaged more than 20 FG attempts twice and never more than 20.8.

Clearly Pippen knew where the ball needed to go. Russ did not.

Just a tragically bad post here. Try again.