I know I will get Criticized but.....

[StanMarsh51]

Easy. Nomar. My back up would probably field better than Jeter.

And he'd probably hit .170...think someone like Donnie Sadler.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

So now we're changing the debate? My only point is that he's wildly overrated, nothing more.

It's not changing the debate at all, I'm trying to establish its definitions.

Based on his stats alone, I think most would agree that even had he been a Royal, or an Indian, or a Padre, he would be considered a top shortstop of all time, and would be a clear HOFer.

That being the case, where would one have to rate him in order to be "wildly" overrating him? That he's the best player ever? The best of his generation? That he is Ozzie Smith and Barry Bonds rolled into one wearing pinstripes? That he's a direct descendant of Jesus, Muhammad, AND Buddah? I don't hear anyone saying those things or I'd agree that he's overrated.

So it's really a matter of where you rate him and where you perceive others to be rating him.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

I think @SlinkyRedfoot 2.0 could help make an interesting MLB Daily thread this season if he's a fan of Jetes.

A fan of Jeter's? I think he's a highly polished piece of plastic. I can't stand the guy.

 

[TKOSpikes]

I agree with slinky. Only Jeter/Yankees haters think he's overrated. Now understand, by us saying he's not overrated doesn't mean we think he's the BOAT. He was a leader of the highest paid players in the game. And wasn't just along for the ride. Any and every team in the league right now would take a rookie Jeter and stick him at short for a decade and a half.

 

[obxyankeefan]

As a Pirate he is problaly the same as Craig Biggio, but still a HOF. I voted Overrated, because most Yankee fans list him with Mantle, Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

I wonder if he has those numbers if he doesn't spend his entire career surrounded by other top players, does he get 3,400 hits if he spends his entire career with the Pirates? Not a chance.

Reasonable point, but you're taking it to the extreme with The Pirates. What about an average hitting team?

I also don't think there's much historical precedent for considering lineups when discussing batting stats. In a debate about the greatest hitters of all time, you're not going to hear "yeah, but if Ruth played on <insert shitty team here>, he wouldn't have had all those HRs.

 

[cerealboi]

I agree with slinky. Only Jeter/Yankees haters think he's overrated. Now understand, by us saying he's not overrated doesn't mean we think he's the BOAT. He was a leader of the highest paid players in the game. And wasn't just along for the ride. Any and every team in the league right now would take a rookie Jeter and stick him at short for a decade and a half.

Most teams wouldn't have sacrificed their playoffs hopes by continuing to bat him second when he was 40.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Then again, Nomar averaged less than 120 games/season in that 10 year stretch. Not to mention, Nomar has only 1,055 games at shortstop (less than 7 seasons worth of games).

You can argue he was better at full strength when he played shortstop, but fact is, he wasn't at full strength and/or playing shortstop very often.

I'd add that while I wouldn't be surprised if Jeter juiced, I'd bet my middle testicle that Nomar was using anabolics in every conceivable manner, including injecting directly into his brain through his eye.

 

[cerealboi]

I'd add that while I wouldn't be surprised if Jeter juiced, I'd bet my middle testicle that Nomar was using anabolics in every conceivable manner, including injecting directly into his brain through his eye.

Yeah, I suspect that goes without saying. I bet Jeter did something too though. You're not besties with Arod and not at least give it a shot (no pun).

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Most teams wouldn't have sacrificed their playoffs hopes by continuing to bat him second when he was 40.

You know, it's quite possible that my favorite thing to see on a sports site is Yankees and Red Sox fans debating which team is more "homegrown" or whose titles are more tainted.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Yeah, I suspect that goes without saying. I bet Jeter did something too though. You're not besties with Arod and not at least give it a shot (no pun).

Oh, he and A-Rod are not friends at all. In fact, when giving each other handys in the shower, they would often close their eyes and think of Bernie Williams.

 

[obxyankeefan]

You know, it's quite possible that my favorite thing to see on a sports site is Yankees and Red Sox fans debating which team is more "homegrown" or whose titles are more tainted.

I never understood that argument. Any blind squirrel can see Boston's titles are more tainted.

 

[Nosferatu]

100% agree, the only reason Cal Ripken is who he is is because he didn't get hurt and miss games, Not because of his play.

3,000 hits gets you in. I do agree he is crazy overrated but he hit one of the automatic hall of fame numbers.

 

[cerealboi]

I never understood that argument. Any blind squirrel can see Boston's titles are more tainted.

Wrong! Two championships in testing era > One championship in testing era

 

[broncosmitty]

I went to watch Jeter play in Pony League.

He was overrated then too.

But one steady singles hitter for a long, long time. On a damn good team for most of it. (Was it his last game that was the first time he'd played at YS while out of playoff contention? Sumthin' like that, right.)

 

[Nosferatu]

Reasonable point, but you're taking it to the extreme with The Pirates. What about an average hitting team?

I also don't think there's much historical precedent for considering lineups when discussing batting stats. In a debate about the greatest hitters of all time, you're not going to hear "yeah, but if Ruth played on <insert shitty team here>, he wouldn't have had all those HRs.

Comparing Ruth to Jeter doesn't work as Ruth put up numbers unimaginable Jeter never did. Ruth hit more home runs than some teams.

Using the Pirates was a stretch but you can use just about half the teams in the league. My point was without spending 20 seasons playing on a team that could continually put great players around him he would not have near the numbers he ended with. Who knows how that might affected him early in his career, if he say played for the Twins his first 5 or 6 years does he have over 1,000 hits by age 27?

Also, not every team would have brought him up at 21. No reason to rush at that age. In 2013 at age 20 Miguel Sano hit .280 with 35 HR's and 103 RBI's and even though he was hurt early in the 2014 season there is no way the Twins rush him up while they suck and start his major league service clock.

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

Who are you?

Eyesssssssss???

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

You know, it's quite possible that my favorite thing to see on a sports site is Yankees and Red Sox fans debating which team is more "homegrown" or whose titles are more tainted.

Oh, then you will definitely enjoy the Daily thread once the season starts, especially if Cerealboi brings his friends

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Comparing Ruth to Jeter doesn't work as Ruth put up numbers unimaginable Jeter never did. Ruth hit more home runs than some teams.

Wow. You think I was comparing Derek Jeter to Babe Ruth?

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Using the Pirates was a stretch but you can use just about half the teams in the league. My point was without spending 20 seasons playing on a team that could continually put great players around him he would not have near the numbers he ended with. Who knows how that might affected him early in his career, if he say played for the Twins his first 5 or 6 years does he have over 1,000 hits by age 27?

Also, not every team would have brought him up at 21. No reason to rush at that age. In 2013 at age 20 Miguel Sano hit .280 with 35 HR's and 103 RBI's and even though he was hurt early in the 2014 season there is no way the Twins rush him up while they suck and start his major league service clock.

Again, wow. Service clock?