How I rank the "Big Six" in this year's draft

[Clayton]

Its actually amazing that Rudolph isn't coming out with something like a 4th round grade. He has the 'Big 12 QB' thing working against him. Mahomes had the Big 12 QB thing, too, but he had a cannon arm and a ton of mobility and a lot of people thought that he carried a pretty awful supporting cast. Rudolph isn't know for arm strength or mobility. Rudolph has fairly small hands, too, and when he wrap that all together then I think he draft drafted way after the other five.

Rudolph does have a lot of upside if he is able to work on said arm strength so I'm not saying he is going to bust for sure but I think as a prospect he is on par with Davis Webb from last year and maybe actually a little lower.


I'm not fully sure Lamar Jackson is going to get drafted in rd1, either. He is less polished than Teddy Bridgewater when he was coming out and as a pro prospect I think he has many similar issues with durability concerns. Jackson does have more 'arm talent' than Bridgewater but less accuracy especially on the move which negates Jackson's biggest strength. I think Jackson does have some Russell Wilson upside but he has to go to the right team.

 

[SteelersPride]

Its actually amazing that Rudolph isn't coming out with something like a 4th round grade. He has the 'Big 12 QB' thing working against him. Mahomes had the Big 12 QB thing, too, but he had a cannon arm and a ton of mobility and a lot of people thought that he carried a pretty awful supporting cast. Rudolph isn't know for arm strength or mobility. Rudolph has fairly small hands, too, and when he wrap that all together then I think he draft drafted way after the other five.

Rudolph does have a lot of upside if he is able to work on said arm strength so I'm not saying he is going to bust for sure but I think as a prospect he is on par with Davis Webb from last year and maybe actually a little lower.


I'm not fully sure Lamar Jackson is going to get drafted in rd1, either. He is less polished than Teddy Bridgewater when he was coming out and as a pro prospect I think he has many similar issues with durability concerns. Jackson does have more 'arm talent' than Bridgewater but less accuracy especially on the move which negates Jackson's biggest strength. I think Jackson does have some Russell Wilson upside but he has to go to the right team.

lol exactly, OP on crack

 

[Clayton]

I think my final guess for these QBs is something like:

Josh Rosen. Top 5. Prospect level: Kirk Cousins
Baker Mayfield. Top 5. Prospect level: Jimmy Garoppolo
Sam Darnold. Top 5. Prospect level: Jameis Winston

Josh Allen. Rd1. Prospect level: Paxton Lynch

Lamar Jackson. Rd2. Prospect level: Unique

Mason Rudolph. Rd3. Prospect level: Davis Webb

 

[tducey]

1. Darnold
2. Mayfield
3. Rosen
4. Rudolph
5. Allen
6. Jackson

 

[SteelersPride]

1. Darnold
2. Mayfield
3. Rosen
4. Rudolph
5. Allen
6. Jackson

jackson is vick but BETTER

 

[Across The Field]

Lets begin where we agree. I very much agree that Jackson should be toward the bottom of the "big 6 debate" and has accuracy issues. No doubt about that.

Here's where I disagree with you. I compared him to Vick because of what he brings to the table: a running quarterback with a big arm, but spotty accuracy issues. I said he's "better than Vick" for two reasons: (1) He's taller than Vick, had a better completion%, and played in more games in college. (2) Vick himself compared his style of play to Jackson's style of play, and said they are akin.

Yeah I heard Vick say that, but the same things were said about Vince Young, only worse. He was a more accomplished prospect than Jackson, and was looked at as a revolutionary sort of player. The problem is, people underestimated how much his intelligence (or lack thereof) would affect him. I see Jackson in that same light. He has serious issues going through his progressions and anticipating coverages. It wasn't a big deal in college because he was by far the best athlete on the field a lot of times. However, that won't be the case in the pros. I think he's going to take several years to even become a reasonably effective QB, let alone a winner.

Rudolph is indeed a top QB prospect in this year's draft. He's frequently mentioned as a late 1st round pick to 2nd round pick, and consistently ranks in the top 100 among media big boards. CBS Sports even has him as the 10th best player in the draft.

Rudolph could very well be a backup QB in this league. But I just feel that his ability to throw the football down-the-field makes him the best out of this class. Darnold has the fumble issues. Rosen has character and durability concerns. Mayfield is a trouble-maker and his problems could continue to haunt him. With Rudolph, I feel you can coach him on his mechanical issues. I fully understand that Big-12 QBs have a long history of being average in the NFL. I fully understand that Rudolph played with clean pockets a lot.

He's mentioned as a late 1st rounder, but he's also the 6th QB off the board, which tells me it's more of a position thing than him being an elite prospect. There have been a TON of late first round QBs who never amounted to much - Tebow, Paxton Lynch, Manziel, Bridgewater (even before his injury he was just OK) and back to Jim Druckenmiller, and everything in between. It's a prime position so it's overvalued more than any other spot on the field by far. Big 12 QBs have a long history of being awful, not just average. It's difficult to name the best one in NFL history. Journeyman Bradford? VY? Ryan Tannehill? Yuck.

He's my #2 guy and I very much agree that the fumbles are his ONLY issue. He's a dazzling QB. Even his game against Ohio State, I saw amazing tight window passes. But you have to admit the fumbles are a BIG ISSUE. And if the turnovers continue, Darnold is going to be a backup quarterback too.

I love so many things about his game. Fumbles are very correctable, and he also played behind a pretty bad OL this past season. I love his potential, and his floor is definitely the highest of the QBs in this draft IMO, and it's not really close, which is why I hope to hell Cleveland takes him.

Why in the world do you have Allen #2?

Purely on potential. I think his ceiling is sky high. He obviously needs a year or two redshirting and continuing to learn, but he bring a ton to the table. The obvious size/arm/athleticism can't be coached. His footwork is decent but should continue to improve. I like his potential in Cleveland because Tyrod will allow him at least 1 full year to sit and learn. If Hue Jackson can make Andy Dalton into a good enough QB, I'd love to see what he can do with a talent like Allen.

Anyway, I hope the best for your Browns. Darnold would be a great fit.

Thanks man. They really need to nail this QB pick, and Darnold is without question my favorite guy.

 

[Stomp]

1. Mayfield franchise QB
2. Rosen franchise QB
3. Rudolph probably lands in a good spot and ends up above the Dalton line
4. Lamar Jackson has a couple good years, but never makes the transition from option QB to Pocket QB
5. Sam Darnold a cross between Blake bortles and Brock Osweiler
6. Josh Allen going to be a huge bust

 

[SJ76]

Bunch of sissy bitches.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Rudolph is a day 2 guy (not a terrible thing, those are worth chances) that will go late day 1. The Jags have to take somebody with how close they are.

 

[Across The Field]

The Josh Allen to Paxton Lynch comparisons are pretty ignorant. They're really not that similar other than that they're tall white guys with strong arms. They played in totally different offenses, Allen is a far better athlete, and he's also significantly smarter.

 

[Clayton]

The Josh Allen to Paxton Lynch comparisons are pretty ignorant. They're really not that similar other than that they're tall white guys with strong arms. They played in totally different offenses, Allen is a far better athlete, and he's also significantly smarter.

And you're also really biased. Paxton Lynch is a good athlete, imo

 

[Fountain City Blues]

The Josh Allen to Paxton Lynch comparisons are pretty ignorant. They're really not that similar other than that they're tall white guys with strong arms. They played in totally different offenses, Allen is a far better athlete, and he's also significantly smarter.

Both are sufficiently shitty to ascertain their shittiness. That's as far as the comparison needs to go. Ryan Fitzpatrick is not a good QB or decisionmaker while we are at it.

 

[Clayton]

The problem with guessing on Allen is that he hasn't actually shown the common person any of his intelligence or decision making on the field. The NFL comparisons I've seen have included Carson Wentz, Kyle Boller, slightly worse Mahomes, and Jake Locker. Locker and Boller implies that he is definitely going to bust and I feel like Wentz implies that he definitely won't. Allen is a true boom/bust so I figured Lynch was about as close to someone with an insane upside and a terrible floor.

This is the best video I've seen of Allen. He gives you a lot of 'wow' moments and a lot of 'huh' moments.


When you show something from a game where he plays a real team it gets sad and tragic. His 'intelligence' definitely doesn't bail him out. You can really see the upside, though.

 

[Across The Field]

And you're also really biased. Paxton Lynch is a good athlete, imo

How am I biased? Because I'm such a huge Wyoming fan?

 

[Across The Field]

Both are sufficiently shitty to ascertain their shittiness. That's as far as the comparison needs to go. Ryan Fitzpatrick is not a good QB or decisionmaker while we are at it.

If the Browns draft Allen and we wind up with 2015 Fitzpatrick-type numbers, I'd be fine with that.

 

[Across The Field]

The problem with guessing on Allen is that he hasn't actually shown the common person any of his intelligence or decision making on the field. The NFL comparisons I've seen have included Carson Wentz, Kyle Boller, slightly worse Mahomes, and Jake Locker. Locker and Boller implies that he is definitely going to bust and I feel like Wentz implies that he definitely won't. Allen is a true boom/bust so I figured Lynch was about as close to someone with an insane upside and a terrible floor.

This is the best video I've seen of Allen. He gives you a lot of 'wow' moments and a lot of 'huh' moments.


When you show something from a game where he plays a real team it gets sad and tragic. His 'intelligence' definitely doesn't bail him out. You can really see the upside, though.

Roethlisberger is the comparison I've seen the most. I haven't seen Jake Locker, but I can understand it.

 

[Old Lion]

MY TOP SIX
1. Josh Allen, Wyoming
2. Sam Darnold, USC
3. Baker Mayfield, Oklahoma
4. Josh Rosen, UCLA
5. Lamar Jackson, Louisville
6. Mason Rudolph, Oklahoma State

Allen reminds me of Aaron Rodgers. He will need several years to develop but will eventually be the best of this group 5 years out. The next 3 are more bunched together and almost interchangeable. Jackson in a spread type offense could work. Rudolph looks slow and week to me.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

I really don’t understand the Allen hype. Wyoming’s defense was the reason they won games. Their offense consistently was an abject disaster against any kind of functional defense.

 

[Clayton]

I really don’t understand the Allen hype. Wyoming’s defense was the reason they won games. Their offense consistently was an abject disaster against any kind of functional defense.

Its purely a projection based on potential and not anything proven.

After seeing Watson and Foles last year in the NFL, though, I really do think coaching can really elevate NFL prospects and players. The issue I actually have with Allen is that things 'get away' from him. Balls just sail for no reason some time. Nathan Peterman had that issue in his college film and it took him from a 3rd round type of prospect to a 7th-UDFA type of prospect for me. Obviously Allen has 10x the god given talent but in the modern NFL having balls just 'get away' from the QB is just not something that can happen.

 

[Across The Field]

Its purely a projection based on potential and not anything proven.

After seeing Watson and Foles last year in the NFL, though, I really do think coaching can really elevate NFL prospects and players. The issue I actually have with Allen is that things 'get away' from him. Balls just sail for no reason some time. Nathan Peterman had that issue in his college film and it took him from a 3rd round type of prospect to a 7th-UDFA type of prospect for me. Obviously Allen has 10x the god given talent but in the modern NFL having balls just 'get away' from the QB is just not something that can happen.

I think what you're talking about is very coachable. In watching what I have from him last year, I feel like he tried to do too much, but that's a matter of discipline and refinement. You're 100% correct that it's a projection based on potential. He could end up being Jake Locker or he could end up being Ben Roethlisberger. He's an extremely polarizing prospect.

I don't hate the position Cleveland is in if they take him. If Tyrod comes in next year and has a solid year and we show great improvement, I'd like to see them give him another 1-2 year contract. If Allen doesn't start until he's 24, I've got no problem with that. Ideally he'd start pushing Taylor after this season and prove himself worthy. If he's not quite there, you have Tyrod there ready to go.