Hey, guess who just threw his hat into the Eagles coaching circus?

[redskinsfan]

How do you know that Cousins is the real deal?

No one knows if he's the real deal. But from what we can tell, it's worth the calculated risk to treat him like the real deal.

How does one know that a fiance(e) is their lifelong partner? Certainly, for most of us, it's not based on any extended sample size. You've to make an objective, educated decision based on the evidence and, for the most part, a leap of faith.

 

[j_y19]

He proved to be the real deal.

Agreed. But you didn't know that after his first season. You thought he might, but you took a leap based on a limited sample that showed promise. Just like us.

 

[GNG]

No one knows if he's the real deal. But from what we can tell, it's worth the calculated risk to treat him like the real deal.

How does one know that a fiance(e) is their lifelong partner? Certainly, for most of us, it's not based on any extended sample size. You've to make an objective, educated decision based on the evidence and, for the most part, a leap of faith.

I wish you luck except when you play the Cowboys...

 

[GNG]

Agreed. But you didn't know that after his first season. You thought he might, but you took a leap based on a limited sample that showed promise. Just like us.

Actually Jerry was the one that took a leap of faith on Tony.

 

[Stymietee]

You're not one of those handful of RGIII, anti-Kirk fans are you? That is mind-blowingly insane.

No I am not, in fact, I can't wait for him to go to a team that knows far more about handling spread QB's at the NFL level. That's the trend and Washington as I've insisted upon from the very beginning was ill prepared to manage this guy. Call it insanity if that works for you, but more and more schools are employing the spread. Unfortunately, DC selected one without a recognizable plan in place to take him from a spread QB to a more conventional one.

Now I know that I'll get the usual blowback because my stance hasn't changed since they drafted him, and that's OK, especially if there is any consideration given to the results. I am fully aware that even if they had taken the time to prepare him to run NFL style offenses, that doing so DOESN'T guarantee success, however, basic logic tells us that taking the time to assure that a player has NFL level basics mastered (reading a play book, reading defenses, utilizes proper footwork, etc, etc) gives that player a much greater chance at success. If he then fails, he fails, but not because he doesn't know the difference between a 3 step and a 5 step drop.

Generally, I ignore posts that invite subject matter into a running thread that has no bearing on the thread topic. The posts that follow become a form of comic relief for me and I'm sure validation for the amen chorus.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I wish you luck except when you play the Cowboys...

You are totally right, there have been plenty of one year wonders including several in DC (Griff, Brad Johnson, Schraeder). So yeah it's a risk, but the bigger risk is not signing him and trying again in the draft. The fiance analagy was a great one.

As for Romo I love what this year has proven. I love the guy. I understand his big game history, although that has improved in recent years, so I get the frustration from Boys fans. But always thought he got too much hate and he never got the love he deserved nationally. Never is he mentioned in the top tier, right below the big guys, but that is always where he belonged IMO. This year proved that.

 

[gkekoa]

No I am not, in fact, I can't wait for him to go to a team that knows far more about handling spread QB's at the NFL level. That's the trend and Washington as I've insisted upon from the very beginning was ill prepared to manage this guy. Call it insanity if that works for you, but more and more schools are employing the spread. Unfortunately, DC selected one without a recognizable plan in place to take him from a spread QB to a more conventional one.

Now I know that I'll get the usual blowback because my stance hasn't changed since they drafted him, and that's OK, especially if there is any consideration given to the results. I am fully aware that even if they had taken the time to prepare him to run NFL style offenses, that doing so DOESN'T guarantee success, however, basic logic tells us that taking the time to assure that a player has NFL level basics mastered (reading a play book, reading defenses, utilizes proper footwork, etc, etc) gives that player a much greater chance at success. If he then fails, he fails, but not because he doesn't know the difference between a 3 step and a 5 step drop.

Generally, I ignore posts that invite subject matter into a running thread that has no bearing on the thread topic. The posts that follow become a form of comic relief for me and I'm sure validation for the amen chorus.

This makes you a RG3 guy. If you want him to go elsewhere to prove the Redskins wrong....you are a RG3 guy. Sadly, he will go elsewhere and suck because he just isn't good. Nope...not sadly at all.

 

[j_y19]

This makes you a RG3 guy. If you want him to go elsewhere to prove the Redskins wrong....you are a RG3 guy. Sadly, he will go elsewhere and suck because he just isn't good. Nope...not sadly at all.

Not only are you an RG3 guy, but you are an RG3 guy above the team.

 

[Sportster 72]

I kind of feel for Sty. I was so dead set against the trade and drafting of Griffin but once he got here and was successful that first year I thought to myself. Holy cow! Wait until this guy learns to do all he can do and be a more complete QB. Sty just seems to want to not like Cousins. None of us know how good or bad he will be in the long run but man .... he has done a very good job so far. Seems to me it gives us hope like we had in 2012.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

No I am not, in fact, I can't wait for him to go to a team that knows far more about handling spread QB's at the NFL level. That's the trend and Washington as I've insisted upon from the very beginning was ill prepared to manage this guy. Call it insanity if that works for you, but more and more schools are employing the spread. Unfortunately, DC selected one without a recognizable plan in place to take him from a spread QB to a more conventional one.

Exactly which teams are employing spread type offenses? The list is very small & I don't see it growing. This premise seems to rely on the fact that NFL teams operate like college teams which is 100% incorrect, and I don't see this changing anytime soon. The NFL and college have completely different motives for their QBs. You will also notice that quite a few successful NFL QBs were not considered stars coming out of college (and vice versa).

The pro game is completely different than college, and it is naive to assume that you can train up a college QB who relies on his legs to do well long term in the NFL. It can happen (Wilson, Newton, etc) but the odds are not good. This may change in the future, but it may take a very long time.

 

[redskinsfan]

No I am not, in fact, I can't wait for him to go to a team that knows far more about handling spread QB's at the NFL level. That's the trend and Washington as I've insisted upon from the very beginning was ill prepared to manage this guy. Call it insanity if that works for you, but more and more schools are employing the spread. Unfortunately, DC selected one without a recognizable plan in place to take him from a spread QB to a more conventional one.

Now I know that I'll get the usual blowback because my stance hasn't changed since they drafted him, and that's OK, especially if there is any consideration given to the results. I am fully aware that even if they had taken the time to prepare him to run NFL style offenses, that doing so DOESN'T guarantee success, however, basic logic tells us that taking the time to assure that a player has NFL level basics mastered (reading a play book, reading defenses, utilizes proper footwork, etc, etc) gives that player a much greater chance at success. If he then fails, he fails, but not because he doesn't know the difference between a 3 step and a 5 step drop.

Generally, I ignore posts that invite subject matter into a running thread that has no bearing on the thread topic. The posts that follow become a form of comic relief for me and I'm sure validation for the amen chorus.

So let's get this straight:

You support Cousins, right?

You also believe that he's at least better in this system, correct?

And you'd agree that RGIII can't function in this systems and as a pocket passer?

Also, Gruden's system employs some elements of the spread. In particular, it goes empty backfield a whole lot when they get close to the goal line. But the spread system is another gimmick offense. D-coors can usually find ways around it by, among other things, blitzing one more guy than there are wideouts.

History has taught us that NFL convention still rules. You need a pocket passer in a traditional pro-set if you want long-term success. RGIII simply can't do that.

 

[skinsdad62]

The spread offense is an offensive scheme in American and Canadian football that is used at every level of the game including professional (NFL, CFL), college (NCAA, NAIA, CIS), and high school programs across the US and Canada. Spread offenses typically place the quarterback in the shotgun formation, and "spread" the defense horizontally using three-, four-, and even five-receiver sets. Many spread offenses also employ a no-huddle approach. Some implementations of the spread also feature wide splits between the offensive linemen. Many spread offenses use the read option running play to put pressure on both sides of the defense. Spread offenses also leverage vertical (down field) passing routes to spread the defense vertically, to open up multiple vertical seams for both the running and passing game.

here is the definition of a spread offense . the pats use this , the giants , eagles cowboys falcons chargers rams , seahawks 49ers , colts bears etc

the idea that you need to sit a spread qb down for X number of years doesnt hold water what does hold water is that qb needs to learn to read defenses and operate from the pocket which he should have done coming out of college

mariotta and winston both had good 1st seasons coming from spread offense the problem was RG3 was woefully unprepared but also the skins were not in position to let him sit and learn . no modern pro team can do that so we are living in the world of theory on this

 

[SoCalWizFan]

The spread offense is an offensive scheme in American and Canadian football that is used at every level of the game including professional (NFL, CFL), college (NCAA, NAIA, CIS), and high school programs across the US and Canada. Spread offenses typically place the quarterback in the shotgun formation, and "spread" the defense horizontally using three-, four-, and even five-receiver sets. Many spread offenses also employ a no-huddle approach. Some implementations of the spread also feature wide splits between the offensive linemen. Many spread offenses use the read option running play to put pressure on both sides of the defense. Spread offenses also leverage vertical (down field) passing routes to spread the defense vertically, to open up multiple vertical seams for both the running and passing game.

here is the definition of a spread offense . the pats use this , the giants , eagles cowboys falcons chargers rams , seahawks 49ers , colts bears etc

the idea that you need to sit a spread qb down for X number of years doesnt hold water what does hold water is that qb needs to learn to read defenses and operate from the pocket which he should have done coming out of college

mariotta and winston both had good 1st seasons coming from spread offense the problem was RG3 was woefully unprepared but also the skins were not in position to let him sit and learn . no modern pro team can do that so we are living in the world of theory on this

Good one. A good QB will adapt & thrive regardless. They improve over time & don't need to sit on the bench to evolve. Look at Newton - he has progressed in a major way while still playing.

We don't necessarily know how RG3 is at this pt since he has not played a true NFL game in over a year. However - I am pretty sure that Gruden would have gone with him if he truly believed that he was ready & overcame the flaws that we all saw over the last few seasons. No doubt RG3 will have another chance moving forward - it is up to him to prove everyone wrong. Blaming his woes on Shanahan, Gruden or anyone else just sounds like BS (& I was one of his biggest fans for several years).

 

[j_y19]

The spread offense is an offensive scheme in American and Canadian football that is used at every level of the game including professional (NFL, CFL), college (NCAA, NAIA, CIS), and high school programs across the US and Canada. Spread offenses typically place the quarterback in the shotgun formation, and "spread" the defense horizontally using three-, four-, and even five-receiver sets. Many spread offenses also employ a no-huddle approach. Some implementations of the spread also feature wide splits between the offensive linemen. Many spread offenses use the read option running play to put pressure on both sides of the defense. Spread offenses also leverage vertical (down field) passing routes to spread the defense vertically, to open up multiple vertical seams for both the running and passing game.

here is the definition of a spread offense . the pats use this , the giants , eagles cowboys falcons chargers rams , seahawks 49ers , colts bears etc

the idea that you need to sit a spread qb down for X number of years doesnt hold water what does hold water is that qb needs to learn to read defenses and operate from the pocket which he should have done coming out of college

mariotta and winston both had good 1st seasons coming from spread offense the problem was RG3 was woefully unprepared but also the skins were not in position to let him sit and learn . no modern pro team can do that so we are living in the world of theory on this

But dad, we have heard from others on here that the team let RG3 down, he has no responsibility in his shortcomings. Winston, Mariotta, Taylor and others that have made or are making the transition must be just plain lucky. Surely it can't be our Gifted One that is at fault. Maybe we should have made his Father our OC. He seems to know what is best for his son's career.

 

[Stymietee]

So let's get this straight:

You support Cousins, right?

You also believe that he's at least better in this system, correct?

And you'd agree that RGIII can't function in this systems and as a pocket passer?

Also, Gruden's system employs some elements of the spread. In particular, it goes empty backfield a whole lot when they get close to the goal line. But the spread system is another gimmick offense. D-coors can usually find ways around it by, among other things, blitzing one more guy than there are wideouts.

History has taught us that NFL convention still rules. You need a pocket passer in a traditional pro-set if you want long-term success. RGIII simply can't do that.

Yes
Not sure
Yet to be proven with proper training
Reread what was actually written and you just might notice that you incorrectly cited who increasingly employs the spread offense.
Admit it you have an emotional visceral reaction to Griffin.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Yes
Not sure
Yet to be proven with proper training
Reread what was actually written and you just might notice that you incorrectly cited who increasingly employs the spread offense.
Admit it you have an emotional visceral reaction to Griffin.

Most of those teams use it on occasion - it is not their entire offense. A good QB needs to most likely develop skills to operate out of both systems & this should be doable assuming that they are a true long term NFL QB. I have absolutely nothing against RG3 & believe that he may figure this out elsewhere, but that is far from a given (no matter where he goes, the coach or whether he plays rt away or sits).

 

[Stymietee]

Most of those teams use it on occasion - it is not their entire offense. A good QB needs to most likely develop skills to operate out of both systems & this should be doable assuming that they are a true long term NFL QB. I have absolutely nothing against RG3 & believe that he may figure this out elsewhere, but that is far from a given (no matter where he goes, the coach or whether he plays rt away or sits).

To be fair to the guy, isn't it also a rather damning thing to say he will never figure it out as so many here have stated? Sounds pretty personal to me.

BTW: schools from which the NFL draws players from are increasingly using it simply because it's a simpler system to operate in. In the case of Griffin, all that was required of him was to run or pass using a primary, at best a secondary option. He didn't use a playbook, never was introduced to film study, was not required to employ NFL level footwork, was not required to know what it meant to read defenses, and if you pinned pocket presence to his shirt, he would probably mistake it for a name tag. Where our team got it wrong was in not realizing that he was an investment that required substantial work and not an immediate expenditure. I honestly believe that the way that guys like Mariota et. al. are being handled is not just a function of who gets them but also from the lessons learned from the way Griffin was dealt here in DC, after all who's going to invest in a top ten QB pick or (and I shudder here) as much as Washington did in getting their guy and then systematically not insure that his shortcomings are not properly addressed. I also have something to say about the utter hypocrisy here about the guy, but that can wait for another time since it would divert attention away from the topic at hand.

 

[Sharkinva]

To be fair to the guy, isn't it also a rather damning thing to say he will never figure it out as so many here have stated? Sounds pretty personal to me.

BTW: schools from which the NFL draws players from are increasingly using it simply because it's a simpler system to operate in. In the case of Griffin, all that was required of him was to run or pass using a primary, at best a secondary option. He didn't use a playbook, never was introduced to film study, was not required to employ NFL level footwork, was not required to know what it meant to read defenses, and if you pinned pocket presence to his shirt, he would probably mistake it for a name tag. Where our team got it wrong was in not realizing that he was an investment that required substantial work and not an immediate expenditure. I honestly believe that the way that guys like Mariota et. al. are being handled is not just a function of who gets them but also from the lessons learned from the way Griffin was dealt here in DC, after all who's going to invest in a top ten QB pick or (and I shudder here) as much as Washington did in getting their guy and then systematically not insure that his shortcomings are not properly addressed. I also have something to say about the utter hypocrisy here about the guy, but that can wait for another time since it would divert attention away from the topic at hand.

Thing is Sty... we have seen this movie before. Quite a few time actually. Andre Ware, Mike Vick, Vince Young.... all QBs that relied on their legs and their ability to simply step on the field and let us marvel at their magic. Yes yes, I know I know... how come i only mention black QBs. Not my fault most of these guys are brought up in systems that DONT teach them QB fundamentals because they can rely on their physical abilities more often than not.

As far as Washington's "mishandling" of Griffin, you cant teach some one that refuses to learn. And no you dont invest as much as we did in him pay him $16 million over 4 years guaranteed and then bench him because he thinks he is Gods gift to the position.

So yea, you can count me as one of, no scratch that... the first who EXPECTED him to fail.

 

[Stymietee]

Thing is Sty... we have seen this movie before. Quite a few time actually. Andre Ware, Mike Vick, Vince Young.... all QBs that relied on their legs and their ability to simply step on the field and let us marvel at their magic. Yes yes, I know I know... how come i only mention black QBs. Not my fault most of these guys are brought up in systems that DONT teach them QB fundamentals because they can rely on their physical abilities more often than not.

As far as Washington's "mishandling" of Griffin, you cant teach some one that refuses to learn. And no you dont invest as much as we did in him pay him $16 million over 4 years guaranteed and then bench him because he thinks he is Gods gift to the position.

So yea, you can count me as one of, no scratch that... the first who EXPECTED him to fail.

Once the original investment was made and that's an important distinction, it is instructive to note what was not done from all quarters. Realizing that, failure was inevitable.

 

[skinsdad62]

To be fair to the guy, isn't it also a rather damning thing to say he will never figure it out as so many here have stated? Sounds pretty personal to me.

BTW: schools from which the NFL draws players from are increasingly using it simply because it's a simpler system to operate in. In the case of Griffin, all that was required of him was to run or pass using a primary, at best a secondary option. He didn't use a playbook, never was introduced to film study, was not required to employ NFL level footwork, was not required to know what it meant to read defenses, and if you pinned pocket presence to his shirt, he would probably mistake it for a name tag. Where our team got it wrong was in not realizing that he was an investment that required substantial work and not an immediate expenditure. I honestly believe that the way that guys like Mariota et. al. are being handled is not just a function of who gets them but also from the lessons learned from the way Griffin was dealt here in DC, after all who's going to invest in a top ten QB pick or (and I shudder here) as much as Washington did in getting their guy and then systematically not insure that his shortcomings are not properly addressed. I also have something to say about the utter hypocrisy here about the guy, but that can wait for another time since it would divert attention away from the topic at hand.

he wont figure it out until he has a come to jesus talk with himself and realizes what it takes to be a professional pocket passer . until this benching i am not sure he really got the message . but his issues are all emotional and mental the talent is there