Here's the Draft Thread

[Tubbs1518]

Whits contract isn't very long. His extension means little in regard to Zeitler

 

[alf8478]

I think Zeitler is as good as gone unfortunately.

With the Eifert extension coming and amount of resources devoted to the OL the past couple drafts, I could see them letting him walk like they did Steinbach back in the day.

The moment we resigned Boling and Whit this was a done deal IMO.

It took them years to recover from letting Steinbach go

 

[Cincyfan78]

I keep thinking Fisher could be a guard. Not 100% sure, but I think he could probably do it, and would be OK there.

Time will tell.

 

[cincygrad]

I don't know that Zeitler breaks the bank on the open market. He is a productive, quality starter, but I can't imagine he's considered among the best guards in the conference. How much are quality starter (but not all-pro) FA guards getting on the open market?

 

[cincygrad]

It took them years to recover from letting Steinbach go

The revolving door of Nate Livings and Evan Mathis..... Mathis actually turned out to be a good player - Just not for us.

 

[cincygrad]

It came out today that Kirkpatrick had shoulder surgery this offseason. That's two corners with bum shoulders and one guy on the wrong side of 30. It further validates the decision to take a corner in the first round - Corner IS a need on this team.

 

[Cincyfan78]

It came out today that Kirkpatrick had shoulder surgery this offseason. That's two corners with bum shoulders and one guy on the wrong side of 30. It further validates the decision to take a corner in the first round - Corner IS a need on this team.

Not only that, but people seem to forget, that you simply have to have 3-4 solid CB's to compete on defense in today's NFL. So many 3-4 Wide sets with teams spreading it out. Sure you could mix/match coverage and zone schemes, but having guys that can play man allows the rest of the defense to place more pressure on the QB.

Overall, great draft. Ended up with a huge upside guy with the CB, a solid WR who can help right away in the slot position, and a DT that many had going in round 1 to add to the DL rotation on run downs.

Jury will be out on the LB pick, but his speed at least does offer the hope that he can at least be a good cover LB with his instincts/speed. I like the OL pick, as some had him going much higher, and adds more depth to the OL, which is always a good thing. He can also play some center, so we'll see if they decide to try and dual role him behind the current Center, especially if he can't show some real improve this year.

 

[BKBroiler9000]

It came out today that Kirkpatrick had shoulder surgery this offseason. That's two corners with bum shoulders and one guy on the wrong side of 30. It further validates the decision to take a corner in the first round - Corner IS a need on this team.

I originally opposed the pick, mostly because I was dead set on one of the top WR. After the dust settled, I'm all for it. They picked the best player left on their board. Can't fault them for that.

Dre is on his way out after this year, Dennard is injured and hasn't shown much to date, and Adam Jones won't be around forever. Not to mention Hall is past his prime and still unsigned at moment. There's this misconception that we have great CB depth just because of the resources that have been devoted to that spot. Jackson has the speed and pure coverage ability to be the best of the bunch.

Not to mention I think they got a steal landing Boyd in the 2nd. Very productive and polished player in college and should be able to step in right away. Not a fan of the Vigil pick, but I think Billings will go down as one of the biggest steals of the entire draft. Reminds me of Vince Wilfork. Great draft, I'm thrilled.

I don't hand out jollies or shit rainbows about this organization often. But I think they did a great job.

 

[Cincyfan78]

About Vigil, a lot of people saying he could have been had later, but when you have 3 guys on the staff that know LB's (Lewis, Guenther, and Haslett), all saying he was the right pick there, it's hard to argue. He may not have the kind of ability to be a stud, but his speed and awareness should lend him to being a very productive coverage LB. Something that the Bengals have lacked for several years, and hope to get out of Dansby this year obviously with Vigil potentially working with him to be ready for a bigger role in 2017.

 

[cincygrad]

The fact is that you need good corners in this league and unlike other positions, most of the best corners are early round picks. And as pointed out on this thread, Dennard is hurt and I'm starting to wonder what we can really expect of him. He also got banged up a fair amount in college and the shoulder isn't the first thing he's been down with for the Bengals. It's possible that he won't live up to potential. Dre is Dre..... I think you can live with him for the right price, but he's not going to be a top-end talent. And Pacman is on the wrong side of 30.

 

[cincygrad]

About Vigil, a lot of people saying he could have been had later, but when you have 3 guys on the staff that know LB's (Lewis, Guenther, and Haslett), all saying he was the right pick there, it's hard to argue. He may not have the kind of ability to be a stud, but his speed and awareness should lend him to being a very productive coverage LB. Something that the Bengals have lacked for several years, and hope to get out of Dansby this year obviously with Vigil potentially working with him to be ready for a bigger role in 2017.

I hope he's good.... I just keep thinking of Marvin's early linebacker picks (guys like Caleb Miller) and hoping that we're not going down that road again.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I hope he's good.... I just keep thinking of Marvin's early linebacker picks (guys like Caleb Miller) and hoping that we're not going down that road again.

He struggled with injuries. Not saying he would have been great if not for that, but his one full solid year, he did have 90 tackles. Not bad. But was twice injured, (once early in his career, and again at the end) and screwed his back up effectively ending his playing days I believe.

 

[Kingspoint]

Brown deserves a lot of fault for how things went from 1991ish into the 2000's, and even through 2010, as he kept meddling, but since 2010, it's pretty much been Marvin Lewis' show, along with Katie and Duke.

All I was saying is that the narrative of blaming Mike Brown for everything is tired, lazy, and outdated.

If, as you say, Duke/Marvin are in charge, then why are you STILL blaming teams for not trading with the Bengals on Mike? Surely most other teams GM's know that Tobin is the defacto GM. Hell, a few teams made a run at Tobin this past off-season, so he's no secret to the NFL. Teams know who they are dealing with now. So, why do you then continue to use a narrative that is outdated?

Again, you make no sense. None.

Where did I ever say Marvin was in charge of player personnel, where draft picks fall under that umbrella, which is the topic (you wanted to say that blaming Mike Brown for everything is getting old when the only thing discussed was the movement up or down in a draft in order to target a player. Mike makes these decisions. Marvin has nothing to do with it. Tobin creates the draft board. Marvin can give input about the value he sees in a player, and he and Tobin can discuss it, and maybe Lewis changes Tobin's opinion. But, Tobin finalizes the board and assesses the final value on the players. Mike makes the picks, listening to those willing to speak up, but in the end he goes basically with Tobin's recommendation. It's a collective process, but Mike makes the pick generally off of Tobin's evaluations. It's just not about the best talent. There are a lot of factors and Mike weighs them all. Every year for the last dozen years, he's tried to delegate more to others, weigh other people's opinions more heavily, and done something different that he hadn't tried before. It's been a remarkable turnaround from his stubborn ways of doing things before,...a very long time ago. And, I've heaped praise upon him with every positive move along the way, defending him by pointing out that he isn't what he was before. Even during his terrible days as an owner, I acknowledged that he was the most respected businessman in the Tri-County area because he was careful, cautious, and trustworthy with your investment if you chose to place him in charge of your money. Most of the top businessmen in the Tri-County area did just that. We are talking about a very intelligent individual. It seems, as the franchise multiplied by a 20-25% value every year under his watch, he felt comfortable enough when it reached a certain grandiose level, that the family's numerous other assets and businesses, along with the pure value of the franchise, afforded him the opportunity to begin taking risks...baby steps every year, but risks. If he tried something and it didn't work, he didn't do it again. He's a great businessman. But, he tried something else. He's been trying to replace Rich Braham for 10 years. It just hasn't worked out. He went so far as to go away from a fundamental belief or inability to carry out and make a draft day move of picks. He hasn't done it since as he's waiting for the results. He doesn't like giving away pick(s) to target a player. In the case of the first round, he had value at CB (or DE) waiting for him if his WR wasn't there. He would have had to give up his 4th or 5th Rd pick to move up 3 spots and there goes a potential Starter at NT or C who will be affordable for the next 3-4 years.

Mike is not a big believer in Free Agency, though he embraces it little by little each year with wise, shrewd additions that have low risk. He tried high risk once and got burned. It's business.

Paul Allen is a terrible businessman. Every business he's ran has failed,...until he found the formula with the Seahawks. Allen invests heavily in scouting, while relying heavily on picking the right Management to operate the franchise. Then he gives those he trusts the freedom to make mistakes as he stands back and let's them do what he hired them to do. Seattle believes that their scouting can do better than others and they don't follow NFL standards or ideals when it comes to evaluating players. They firmly believe in targeting players. When they needed a QB, they didn't rely on one plan for getting one as every other team does. They had three...way overpaid with a 2nd Rd pick and more (they are willing to make a bad deal, Mike is not, so he is not able to make a fair one, either as that has a chance of being a bad deal) for a career backup from San Diego, way overpaid for a career backup in Free Agency from Minnesota, and then overdrafted (in many people's minds) with a 3rd Rd pick for a small QB who liked to play baseball....and then let them fight it out. So, thinking about it, they paid the price of those two other QB's, too, for the right to discover that Wilson could be a worthy starter.

The list of targeted players for them is long. Even for Coaches. Pete Carroll was targeted. Their Defense has given up the fewest points in the NFL each of the last two years, despite being stripped each of the last two years. They paid a King's ransom (Unger) in order to get Wilson a go-to Redzone threat. It looks like a bad deal so far as their O-Line is bad and their prize TE was rarely utilized and made to be disgruntled. But, who needs an O-Line when Wilson can scramble like Tarkenton and deliver under pressure like Montana, turning Doug Baldwin, or giving Baldwin the opportunity to turn himself from a very questionable #1 WR to the most productive WR in the league in the 2nd half.

Seattle was at it again...moving up and down three times in this draft....first moving down 5 spots in the first to pick up an extra 3rd and taking the only OT between picks 17-47. They then moved up 7 spots in the 2nd, by giving up their 4th to take a DT they coveted. They used the Denver pick to grab a G as they continue to work on improving the talent that will make up the O-Line. There were four other moves they made on the day.

Both franchises are finding success...Cincinnati in the regular season, and Seattle in the playoffs. Both have been screwed in the playoffs by the Steelers/refs. It would be appropriate that they meet in the Super Bowl this year. They are my #1 likely matchup.

 

[cincygrad]

What in the hell are you talking about? First, everything you say in the first paragraph is straight out of your own mental model of how the Bengals work. There is nothing in there that either you, I, or anyone else could confirm even if we want to.... Now, to my real questions....

1) What other businesses do the Brown family run?

2) Paul Allen is a terrible businessman? Every business of his failed? Have you ever heard of a little business named Microsoft? Do you realize that Paul Allen is one of the top 50 richest dudes in the world?

 

[DanBengalfan]

AFC rep at Superbowl will likely be New England... again.
home field advantage again
who can challenge them in Boston?
maybe the steelers, but big ben will get hurt in a division game and they will lose at least 2-3 division games having to play us and ravens twice.

Our players need to mature enough not to blow it when we've already actually won the game.

 

[Cincyfan78]

What in the hell are you talking about? First, everything you say in the first paragraph is straight out of your own mental model of how the Bengals work. There is nothing in there that either you, I, or anyone else could confirm even if we want to.... Now, to my real questions....

1) What other businesses do the Brown family run?

2) Paul Allen is a terrible businessman? Every business of his failed? Have you ever heard of a little business named Microsoft? Do you realize that Paul Allen is one of the top 50 richest dudes in the world?

I can't even make sense of the first paragraph (if you can call it that, it all runs together, and is basically conjecture of an opinion, not fact).

Let's just agree to disagree and move on, because you are making no sense, and I can't even respond.

 

[DanBengalfan]

Vigil plays running back as well as Linebacker.

lol.

Bengals love shit like that.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Vigil plays running back as well as Linebacker.

lol.

Bengals love shit like that.

We'll see a double FB set, with Peko and the new DT, with Vigil in at RB on goal line plays!

 

[Kingspoint]

What in the hell are you talking about? First, everything you say in the first paragraph is straight out of your own mental model of how the Bengals work. There is nothing in there that either you, I, or anyone else could confirm even if we want to.... Now, to my real questions....

1) What other businesses do the Brown family run?

2) Paul Allen is a terrible businessman? Every business of his failed? Have you ever heard of a little business named Microsoft? Do you realize that Paul Allen is one of the top 50 richest dudes in the world?

First off, it should be common knowledge to anyone living in the Tri-County area who it's business leaders are, unless they are OK with being an uninformed voter. This should not be news to you. You need the education, so I'm going to make you do the research yourself. Their business interests have been widespread for a couple of decades. Mike Brown has been the most influential businessman among his peers for his business acumen for the last 15 years. His advice is the most respected around and the top businesspeople feel it's a privilege to have him Chair their boards. I shouldn't have to tell you from 2000 miles away about basic knowledge from your own back yard. Do some leg work.

As far as Paul Allen goes, what money he has has zero to do with his ability to run a business. At Microsoft, he made no business decisions. He was the software creator...the skilled worker. Gates was the business genius. Gates made all of the effective business decisions that turned the company into the goldmine that got Allen his money. After he retired with his billions, Allen tried various enterprises to keep his interests. Each of them failed to turn a profit, while most ended up bankrupt, including the Trailblazers. The Seahawks have not gone that route, thanks to the NFL's grand revenue sharing system.

As far as my interpretation of how things work at Bengalland, I'm pretty confident about my abilities to figure out the mind of Marvin Lewis and the mind of Mike Brown. I have too much information over the years to compile complete pictures of their motivations and behaviors. You're challenging me and you don't even know what type of person Mike Brown is thought of in the business community of the Tri-County area, the responsibilities he has had with other people's money, and the time he spends on other jobs besides being Owner/President of the Bengals. From your perspective, I could see where it would be difficult to understand what goes on behnd the scenes. I guess I paid a lot closer attention than you have over the years to Mike Brown.

I like to know what's behind the decision-making of the teams I follow, who has influence and to what degree. This information can always be gleaned if you're paying attention. Mike Brown is simple. Paul Allen is complicated. He has let his best buddy, Bert Kohl, who has zero business sense and even less knowledge about sports, make executive decisions regarding the sports franchises. Then, he has this brain-trust of Harvard suits as advisors called Vulcan, whom he also lets make executive decisions about all kinds of things, including sports. What he doesn't see is that they are more interested in maintaining their influence so they will sabotage any power that threatens their ability to be needed by Paul. They are riding his gravy train. They got Pritchard fired for this reason. Paul Allen did some terrible things to hundreds of little people who worked around the Trailblazers. I have no likeness for the man. He's heartless. I like Mike Brown. He does have a good heart.

 

[Krispy Treat]

I warmed up to the WJIII pick, loved the Boyd pick, thought we could've got Vigil a little later in the draft but the Billings and Westerman picks made up for it.

Rooting for WJIII and Westerman hard here. Kirkpatrick and Bodine have to go. They both stink so bad.