Heat own Cleveland once again in Miami

[bksballer89]

Of course you would rather play the beat up Heat team over soon to be completely healthy Indiana team with Paul George returning within the next week.

You want the easy way out as always

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I am telling you right now- I would much rather have the Cavs play Miami than Indiana first round. There is no doubt in my mind. Indiana is just such a tough team.

I think most would disagree....but whatever. You're entitled to your opinion.

Anyway, as far as your bench and all that other nonsense, besides rhetoric, please tell me with actual reasons why you would rather have TT as your backup center for 15 minutes a game instead of Bird. Your 'real' backup centers are HORRIBLE. Perkins is garbage x100.
After Kyrie, besides James, your guard position players are below NBA average.

Shump..he's OK because but take him away from James and he's just another average scrub who isn't any real type of difference maker.

J.R. Smith... read above comment. Same thing applies.

I remember when we had James, we got overly excited about the likes of Mike Bibby, Dexter Pittman, Eddy Curry, Greg Oden, etc..It's just human nature.

Anyway, when you have a player like Kyrie and the "best stretch 4" in the league, why is James shooting more shots then both of them COMBINED on any night, let a night when he was almost too sick to play?
IF James has that mentality in the playoffs, good luck.
His run of making the Finals will end.

The Heat didn't play a very good team tonight, but they dissected them AS A TEAM.
Dragic is one hell of an NBA QB.
Everyones involved.
We are actually looking like a real TEAM again.


Like I said before, let's see how the next 4 go.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Of course you would rather play the beat up Heat team over soon to be completely healthy Indiana team with Paul George returning within the next week.

You want the easy way out as always

We are pretty healthy now.
Yes. Bosh is out. But we have 2 weapons in Whiteside and Dragic that we weren't expecting, so if Wade stays healthy, I don't think we really have any excuses.

Question.
If next year you could only keep Bosh OR Dragic/Whiteside who you keeping?
I'm going Dragoc/Whiteside.

Having all of them is beyond the scope of anything we really could have imagined last July, especially considering we gave up nothing tangible to get them.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I think most would disagree....but whatever. You're entitled to your opinion.

Anyway, as far as your bench and all that other nonsense, besides rhetoric, please tell me with actual reasons why you would rather have TT as your backup center for 15 minutes a game instead of Bird. Your 'real' backup centers are HORRIBLE. Perkins is garbage x100.
After Kyrie, besides James, your guard position players are below NBA average.

Shump..he's OK because but take him away from James and he's just another average scrub who isn't any real type of difference maker.

J.R. Smith... read above comment. Same thing applies.

I remember when we had James, we got overly excited about the likes of Mike Bibby, Dexter Pittman, Eddy Curry, Greg Oden, etc..It's just human nature.

Anyway, when you have a player like Kyrie and the "best stretch 4" in the league, why is James shooting more shots then both of them COMBINED on any night, let a night when he was almost too sick to play?
IF James has that mentality in the playoffs, good luck.
His run of making the Finals will end.

The Heat didn't play a very good team tonight, but they dissected them AS A TEAM.
Dragic is one hell of an NBA QB.
Everyones involved.
We are actually looking like a real TEAM again.


Like I said before, let's see how the next 4 go.

I am sorry- you just do not know what you are talking about when you call Shumpert "an average scrub"- and compare him to guys like Dexter Pittman and Eddy curry and Greg Oden and Mike Bibby (a FAR past his prime bibby)

and Thompson is the backup center- and hes a pretty damn good one. In Thompson, the Cavs have one of the best big men to come off of the bench in the entire NBA

to say that there is a negligible difference between Thompson/Shumpert/SMith- and Haslem/Anderson/Chalmers is a joke. Its a huge freaking joke

from 5-10 on the roster the Heat are ATROCIOUS- because of both injuries and trades. They do not have one guy who should be getting real NBA minutes. Smith, Thompson and Shumpert all can be productive NBA players if given 30+ minutes a night

The Heats 5, 6 , 7 of- I am assuming you would agree- Haslem (since he starts) and Anderson and Chalmers is just atrocious. It has to be the worst of every single playoff team in the East- and its probably not even very close...maybe Bostons is just as bad but they have traded awy half their team too.

When you go to the 8, 9 , 10 of the Heat it gets even worse, Johnson? Walker? Napier? These guys are dleaguers- plain and simple.

Marion, JJones, and Perkins are by no means world beaters- but each guy has championship experience and can be trusted to give you 12 minutes of basketball in teh playoffs where they can make a play or two. Shit- even Dellevodova is solid in small bits- he gets over exposed when the Cavs were playing him 30 minutes + a night- but on a night like tonight against the Pacers he changed the momentum of the game and played well.


You know it and i know it- that because of injuries and trades the Heat's roster from the 5th spot on is just atrocious- its filled with has-beens and never-will-be's- and the only one i would even half trust in the playoffs at this point is Chalmers- and MAYBE Haslem if you absolutely dont ask him to do anything on offense.

Smith, Shumpert and Thompson are actual REAL NBA players

 

[WiggyRuss]

I can understand why Miami is so bad after their top 4 players. McRoberts and Bosh are hurt- and they had to trade a bunch of their other guys to make the salary work for Dragic. If I am Miami I do the same move without a doubt (as long as they are cool with giving Dragic 20M a year for the next 5 years- for his age 30, 31, 32, 33, 34 seasons.

Because of the injuries and trades though- they do not have one even average NBA player after their top 4. Its really atrocious- I have no clue why they did not try and get a buy-out guy. You realize that at some point in the post season that guys like Haslem or Walker or Anderson or Johnson are going to have to give you some solid minutes?---- If one of those 4 guys is even knicked up and not totally healthy it could just get fucking brutal.

Again- the situation was mostly out of Riley's control- between the injuries and trades- but that does not change Tyler Johnson into a guy who should sniff a minute in the playoffs.

 

[bksballer89]

I'm sure Miami rather have Cole, Williams, & Granger & be 10th in the east instead of dragic

 

[WiggyRuss]

We are pretty healthy now.
Yes. Bosh is out. But we have 2 weapons in Whiteside and Dragic that we weren't expecting, so if Wade stays healthy, I don't think we really have any excuses.

Question.
If next year you could only keep Bosh OR Dragic/Whiteside who you keeping?
I'm going Dragoc/Whiteside.

Having all of them is beyond the scope of anything we really could have imagined last July, especially considering we gave up nothing tangible to get them.

How much do you think Whiteside will command once he is a free agent?

you know that Whiteside is signed next year already for peanuts right?

Theoritically- Miami can keep all of them in all likelihood because of the huge cap increase coming the year after next.

Next year- 15/16

Bosh makes 22
Wade 16
Dragic will get 20
Whiteside makes nothing- like 700k or something
McRoberts 6
Anderson 5
Chalmers 4
Haslem 3
Dragic/Napier a combined 3

they have Dragic's bird rights so they can go over the cap- which is expected to be about 66M


the NExt year the cap- since the smoothing mechanism was rejected- is going up to a FUCKING CRAZY 90M

16/17

Bosh 24
Wade ? FA
Whiteside - ? FA
Dragic 20
McRoberts - 6

thats all thats one the books

so what are you guesses that Wade will command and Whiteside will command?

 

[WiggyRuss]

I'm sure Miami rather have Cole, Williams, & Granger & be 10th in the east instead of dragic

i said multiple times if i were riley id make the same move- but the obvious downside of the move is you guys suck from your 5th player on.---

 

[bksballer89]

i said multiple times if i were riley id make the same move- but the obvious downside of the move is you guys suck from your 5th player on.---

Chalmers is a decent player and they only suck from 5th on obviously because mcroberts & bosh are out. With those guys Miami would have a really good top 7 and Beasley & bird wouldn't look bad as 8th & 9th players instead of 6th & 7th

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

i said multiple times if i were riley id make the same move- but the obvious downside of the move is you guys suck from your 5th player on.---

You truly are out of you're mind.
We gave up nothing for Dragic.

Hell, Beasley and Thomas are BOTH better then anything we gave up.
As far as who we can keep or not keep in 2 years will be worried about when that time comes.
Heat fans have every reason to trust Arison, Riley, and Ellison.

You keep NOT mentioning that Wade is off the books, there will be a new CBA, etc..

Plus, there is an excellent chance we will not even keep McRoberts after this season.

As far as back to benches, I know what UD is and what he does and doesn't bring.
For fans outside of Miami, you really wouldn't understand.
Let's put it this way, he currently brings a hell of a lot more than Mike Miller.
He brings toughess, leadership, and attitude.
I agree he isn't starting NBA material, but he is only starting so Spoesltra can blend in the bench better after he plays his 6 minutes.

Look at your box score tonight. What's up with TT and Shumpert?

The Heat bench actually provides a spark.
Chalmers has hit a TON more big shots then ANY player on your roster other than James.

It keeps going back to the same question from me to you.
If your team is 'all that', then why isn't it championship or bust?

 

[bksballer89]

I also love when Wiggy act like Chalmers is some bum.

He is a really solid role player and even better when he is played at his natural position which is SG. He struggled this year when he's been used frequently as the backup PG but he has been really solid as Wade's backup. There is only one bench player on the Cavs that they would take over Chalmers and that is Thomas

Chalmers numbers is much better than Shump numbers as a Cav

 

[WiggyRuss]

You truly are out of you're mind.
We gave up nothing for Dragic.

Hell, Beasley and Thomas are BOTH better then anything we gave up.
As far as who we can keep or not keep in 2 years will be worried about when that time comes.
Heat fans have every reason to trust Arison, Riley, and Ellison.

You keep NOT mentioning that Wade is off the books, there will be a new CBA, etc..

Plus, there is an excellent chance we will not even keep McRoberts after this season.

As far as back to benches, I know what UD is and what he does and doesn't bring.
For fans outside of Miami, you really wouldn't understand.
Let's put it this way, he currently brings a hell of a lot more than Mike Miller.
He brings toughess, leadership, and attitude.
I agree he isn't starting NBA material, but he is only starting so Spoesltra can blend in the bench better after he plays his 6 minutes.

Look at your box score tonight. What's up with TT and Shumpert?

The Heat bench actually provides a spark.
Chalmers has hit a TON more big shots then ANY player on your roster other than James.

It keeps going back to the same question from me to you.
If your team is 'all that', then why isn't it championship or bust?

the box score ? look at one night of box scores to evaluate those guys? Both of who's best attribute is defense

The best game I think Shumpert has played all year he did not score even one single point. He shadowed Curry and shut him down

and please, Bskballer got what i was saying- of COURSE you do the Dragic deal- even if the picks are unprotected (as long as you resign him like we discussed)-

but in order to get salaries to match you had to give up some decent bench players-

Danny Granger is a SHELL of his former self- but- especially another year out after he got healthy- I would trust Granger to play 15 minutes in the postseason. Hes a serviceable 6th or 7th or 8th guy.

Shawne Williams is absolutely nothing special. But he had started 22 games- and was shooting a pretty damn good 39.5% from 3 - and was a wing that could stretch the floor.

Norris Cole is not even one of the better backup point guards in the NBA- but he had played decent in the playoffs and had about 60 games of playoff experience the last 3 seasons.....

in order to get the Salaries to match- since you guys didnt give up a significant player- you had to cobble together a bunch of your bench players.


you ABSOLUTELY make the deal again as i said- and I have really enjoyed watching Dragic play- its a lot easier now that he is in the East on a team that gets a lot of attention.


but like i said- that trade- coupled with the injuries- basically turned the bottom end of the HEats rotation into a mess.

And as i said- I would do the same exactthing if I was Riley- you gotta make that move- and then just pray those unprotected picks dont end up being better than you thought (like when the Clips traded the Cavs their unprotected pick -and a 2.3% chance turned into the #1pick and THE Kyrie Irving)

 

[WiggyRuss]

I also love when Wiggy act like Chalmers is some bum.

He is a really solid role player and even better when he is played at his natural position which is SG. He struggled this year when he's been used frequently as the backup PG but he has been really solid as Wade's backup. There is only one bench player on the Cavs that they would take over Chalmers and that is Thomas

Chalmers numbers is much better than Shump numbers as a Cav

Dude, did you just read my post above? i said i would trust Chalmers for 15-20 minutes.

I just think he was one of the worst players in the NBA that was getting 30 minutes anight- probably THE worst. Chalmers overall is having a pretty crappy year when compared to previous years though.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Chalmers has shot 39%, 41%, 39% the previous three seasons. While he only shoots about a little over 3 3pointers a game- he had to be respected shooting a solid percentage like that.

This year that has fallen to under 30%. - and this is the year where the Heat need someone to step up and beable to shoot a 3 more than ever. He is only at 41% from the field. Which actually is not much worse than JR Smith- but Jr Smith averages 7 three attempts a game- and is at 38.2% on them.

Thats pretty hard to do- to shoot 7 threes a game and shoot 38.2% from 3.

in fact- this is an interesting stat- of guys that shoot at least 7 threes a game- Jr Smith is 4rd in the NBA- behind Curry, Klay and MAthews

Smith also has had over 1.6 steals a game since joining the CAvs- which puts him in the top 18 in the league.

The guy has played really really good basketball.

 

[bksballer89]

Chalmers is having a fine year. Not crappy at all.

Just because his 3 point % is down doesn't mean he's having a crappy year. We're getting 11 & 4 from Chalmers on 41% shooting which is solid for him.

Pretty sure just about every team in the league would take 11 & 4 from their backup PG/SG

 

[WiggyRuss]

Chalmers is having a fine year. Not crappy at all.

Just because his 3 point % is down doesn't mean he's having a crappy year. We're getting 11 & 4 from Chalmers on 41% shooting which is solid for him.

Pretty sure just about every team in the league would take 11 & 4 from their backup PG/SG

hey---i dont know if you looked at those cap figures from above...but what did you think

what do you think Whiteside and Wade will want/end up getting paid not next year- which is pretty set- but the year after?

Waht kidn of money do you think Wade will ask for/will Miami hook him up with?---

and like we were saying- you wont have Whitesides Bird Rights- or even restricted rights- he will be a UFA- how high would you go to keep him?

 

[WiggyRuss]

Chalmers is having a fine year. Not crappy at all.

Just because his 3 point % is down doesn't mean he's having a crappy year. We're getting 11 & 4 from Chalmers on 41% shooting which is solid for him.

Pretty sure just about every team in the league would take 11 & 4 from their backup PG/SG

i see your point in that- but at the same time- its rare that those guys get 30 minutes and have started over half their teams games.- you can definitely frame it both ways.

 

[bksballer89]

i see your point in that- but at the same time- its rare that those guys get 30 minutes and have started over half their teams games.- you can definitely frame it both ways.

He started over half our games for a few reasons.

1) Cole was trash so he eventually had to replace him in the lineup

2) Wade was hurt which means he has to play as starting SG

3) Dragic has missed some games since he got here as well

It obviously wasn't the heat intentions to have him start any games this season

 

[WiggyRuss]

i see your point in that- but at the same time- its rare that those guys get 30 minutes and have started over half their teams games.- you can definitely frame it both ways.

Personally- I think Mo Williams would have been a much better decision- he also signed later and makes less money. I like Mo with the Cavs- he was comically unqualified to play the #2 to LeBron's 1- but he actually would have been a damn good 3rd option. Those 2 years with LEBron in Cleveland he shot 44% and 43% from 3....that was ridiculous for him. The guy can undoubtedly stretch the floor and hes a solid creator.

He only signed a 1 year 3.75M deal. - and he has played really good ball. Charlotte stole him in my opinion for the little they gave up.

I thought he would have been a great fit in Miami

 

[Black Adam]

We are pretty healthy now.
Yes. Bosh is out. But we have 2 weapons in Whiteside and Dragic that we weren't expecting, so if Wade stays healthy, I don't think we really have any excuses.

Question.
If next year you could only keep Bosh OR Dragic/Whiteside who you keeping?
I'm going Dragoc/Whiteside.

Having all of them is beyond the scope of anything we really could have imagined last July, especially considering we gave up nothing tangible to get them.

yep...

Bosh spreads your floor and does a lot of things well, but the other 2 players have so much potential you simply can't ignore it. so like you if it were ME calling the shots it'd be Dragic and Whiteside hands down...