Heat own Cleveland once again in Miami

[TurnUpTheHeat]

One huge advantage Cleveland has over Miami is the quality of its role players.

Wade, Dragic, Whiteside, Deng is a very good foursome- thats countered by LeBron, Irving, Love, Mozgov
-Cleveland definitely wins that- but Miami definitely has- even without Bosh- one of the better top 4 guys in the entire East.

-Why I cant imagine Miami really giving the Cavs much of a match in a playoff series is the rest of the guys after that

Jr Smith, Shumpert, Thompson- vs. Anderson, Chalmers, Haslem. --- I mean- the Cavs 3 role players are upper tier role players- the Heat guys just arent that great- Haslem is ANCIENT, Chalmers is Chalmers, and Anderson is old and wearing down and is not very good. The Cavs have a huge advantage

If you want to go deeper on the roster- which is not exactly relevant in a playoff since rotations tighten up---- but what? most teams play like 8-9 guys in the playoffs usually with the 9th guy getting limited minutes- it even gets more lopsided towards the Cavs- Marion, Perkins, Delly, Miller, JJones- all these guys either have championship experience or bring a skill set. this is against guys like Henry Walker, Tyler Johnson, Shabazz Napier, Michael Beasley----The Cavs guys arent great, but at leaset they bring some stuff to the table either through experience or what- all those Heat guys are just above dleague players with the exception of what Napier might be and who knows what you will get from them.


all 3 of those guys are damn good players. Smith has played great- (to all the people that said Waiters would be better- HAHA) and stretched the floor and is shooting 38% from 3 and taking nearly 7 a game- thats awesome. Smith is also top 15 in the NBA in steals since he got to the Cavs- he has done a great job getting into passing lanes. All Shumpert has done is given the Cavs a very very solid perimeter defender- He is not a "shutdown" guy- but he has played well- and the highlight of his year might have been in a game he didnt score- when he frustrated Steph Curry into one of his worst efforts of the season. Thompson has taken a leap this year. His defense is very solid, he is one of the best offensive rebounders in the whole league- and he gives the Cavs some toughness.


This is just my opinion- but if i am the CAvs I HOPE the HEat get the 7 seed because I think they will be an easier out than the Pacers. The Pacers have played really good ball lately, and they play very tough and physical...The Cavs should make fairly quick work ofthem but the Pacers would really make them earn every bit. I could see the Cavs going up 2-0 against miami at home and the series be basically over and the Heat would lay down the rest of it.

How can you say the Pacers have been better lately?
After tomorrow, they will have lost there last 4.
If the Heat beat Denver, that would cap off a pretty damn good week.
Then, in general, the Heat have been injury riddled basically all season, but are still ahead of the Pacers in the standings,
I know George hasn't played, but at least they knew he wouldn't be playing.
The Heat have started around 30 different lineups.

Next, the only real shot the Heat have of beating a good team would be if Wade, Dragic, Deng, and Whiteside are all healthy. The sample size of that isn't that big, but the results are pretty impressive.

I'm not picking the Heat to win a series vs the Cavs. It would require prob 2 road wins which isn't very probable.

The fact that we are even having the discussion when Bosh/McRoberts aren't even part of the equation says a lot about what Rikey has pulled off this season.

Lastly, I dont at all see much more if any overall advantage your bench has.
Is Thompsons 15 minutes on the court really more productive then Birdmans?

Shumperts ok, but nothing special.
It really would prob come down to which players had the hot hand.
I mean Beasley can be real good or sometimes real bad.
I'll take Chalmers over Delly any day of the week and twice on Sunday's.

James Jones? Whatever. If you want to shoot 3s all game, go ahead.
How did it work out Monday night?

 

[bksballer89]

Kevin Love doesn't like being a called stretch 4 so please stop it Wiggy.

"I heard some people calling me that but I know I’m not a stretch-four. I’m a post player that can shoot. Right now I’m just doing what I’m called to do. For good, bad or indifferent, I’m playing my role and doing what’s asked of me. Tonight, I stayed out on the perimeter."

The nightmare scenario for the Cleveland Cavaliers is getting real - Yahoo Finance

 

[WiggyRuss]

How can you say the Pacers have been better lately?
After tomorrow, they will have lost there last 4.
If the Heat beat Denver, that would cap off a pretty damn good week.
Then, in general, the Heat have been injury riddled basically all season, but are still ahead of the Pacers in the standings,
I know George hasn't played, but at least they knew he wouldn't be playing.
The Heat have started around 30 different lineups.

Next, the only real shot the Heat have of beating a good team would be if Wade, Dragic, Deng, and Whiteside are all healthy. The sample size of that isn't that big, but the results are pretty impressive.

I'm not picking the Heat to win a series vs the Cavs. It would require prob 2 road wins which isn't very probable.

The fact that we are even having the discussion when Bosh/McRoberts aren't even part of the equation says a lot about what Rikey has pulled off this season.

Lastly, I dont at all see much more if any overall advantage your bench has.
Is Thompsons 15 minutes on the court really more productive then Birdmans?

Shumperts ok, but nothing special.
It really would prob come down to which players had the hot hand.
I mean Beasley can be real good or sometimes real bad.
I'll take Chalmers over Delly any day of the week and twice on Sunday's.

James Jones? Whatever. If you want to shoot 3s all game, go ahead.
How did it work out Monday night?

dude, if you dont see any advantage when you throw Shumpert and Thompson over Anderson and Chalmers then I dont know what to tell you then you dont know basketball.

Or throwing out guys like Walker and Johnson- guys who should be d-leaguers- when the Cavs throw out former champs like Marion and Jones. I know who id trust with 12 minutes - its not even close.

Those trades definitely helped your starting lineup- but SERVICABLE bench guys like Granger and Williams were replaced with trash like Walker, and Johnson. Napier and Delly are a wash.

you guys have been STARTING Haslem and Haslem is beyond washed up.

the Heat have 4 players that are good.

Wade, Dragic, Whiteside, Deng.


v.

LeBron, Irving, Love, Mozgov.

that OBVIOUSLY goes to the Cavs- but like i said- thats still a darn good 4 players at the top of the roster- especially if Whiteside keeps his head straight


but after that the Cavs just have too much. They have real NBA players

Riley did a great job pulling off that trade- but between that trade and injuries- the Heat really had the 5-11 spots on the roster decimated. and it shows

that 5 through 11 spot the Cavs have -

Jr Smith
TThompson
I Shumpert
Shawn Marion
Perkins
J Jones
Delly

the Heat have

Haslem
Anderson
Chalmers
Johnson
Walker
Napier
Beasley

and if you really want to say - only the 5-9 matter- thats even a BIGGER Cavs advantage.

I give Riley a bunch of credit for the Dragic trade and what it could mean. But that trade and the Heat injuries have really turned the bottom half of their roster into a very sorry collection of has-beens and never-will-be's

 

[WiggyRuss]

unlike others I can admit when I am wrong.

I questioned whether Dragic would shoot over 50%....he has. That is damn amazing. He has really helped transform the Heats offense from being extremely stagnant and basically all half court- to the Heat actually having a transition game and pushing the ball- and has really been great with his interior passing.

Anyway-I was highly skeptical of Dragic shooting over 50% from the field- right now hes at just slightly over 52%.- I was wrong on that. I am extremely impressed with how Dragic has played thus far individually- and it is finally starting to transfer to wins of late.



I just wish some people would admit when they were wrong about the Cavs. People who said the Cavs made "panic trades" and that Waiters is better than Smith and that Smith would be a problem in the locker room.

Dion Waiters since the trade- 11.2 pts, 2.6 rebounds, 1.6 assists, 0.9 steals- 37% shooting, 28% from 3- 29/105 on 3's.

JR Smith since the trade- 12.6 pts, 3.7 rebounds, 2.6 assists, 1.6 steals, 42% shooting, 38% from 3, 89/236 on 3's.

Those stats speak for themselves. Jr Smith is shooting better from behind the 3 pt line than Waiters is shooting from the field.

Jr Smith has said how much he loves playing for the Cavs and that this is the most fun he has ever had playing basketball- and has OBVIOUSLY not been the "team cancer" that many said he would be for the Cavs.

 

[trojanfan12]

@Wiggy telling anyone they don't know basketball.

 

[gordontrue]

The nightmare scenario for the Cleveland Cavaliers is
getting real - Yahoo Finance

Interesting read, but the article fails to mention a few things.

(I know you were just quoting the article as part of the "is Love a stretch 4? convo")

1) Larry Bird Rights. Even if Love does walk .... Its not really a nightmare situation unless he truly decides to leave his Larry Bird Rights behind, and its hard for me to imagine that happening. If Love does want to go somewhere else the Cavs will be able to parlay his Larry Bird rights into some return

2) The article talks about how the Cavs would have no cap space left to replace him... but ignores the fact that the cap is likely to dramatically increase.

3) All the speculation on how Love feels right now means very little. Its going to depend on how he feels during/after the playoffs. If he is on the bench at the end of games during a playoff series ultimately lost by the Cavs... that will impact him negatively FAR more than anything that's happened so far. On the other hand if he is instrumental in a deep playoff run... that will likely far outweigh anything negative that's happened thus far.

 

[trojanfan12]

Interesting read, but the article fails to mention a few things.

(I know you were just quoting the article as part of the "is Love a stretch 4? convo")

1) Larry Bird Rights. Even if Love does walk .... Its not really a nightmare situation unless he truly decides to leave his Larry Bird Rights behind, and its hard for me to imagine that happening. If Love does want to go somewhere else the Cavs will be able to parlay his Larry Bird rights into some return

2) The article talks about how the Cavs would have no cap space left to replace him... but ignores the fact that the cap is likely to dramatically increase.

3) All the speculation on how Love feels right now means very little. Its going to depend on how he feels during/after the playoffs. If he is on the bench at the end of games during a playoff series ultimately lost by the Cavs... that will impact him negatively FAR more than anything that's happened so far. On the other hand if he is instrumental in a deep playoff run... that will likely far outweigh anything negative that's happened thus far.

1.) Not sure how that works.

2.) The cap won't increase until AFTER next season, Love could leave after THIS season which means the Cavs would not have the cap space to replace him with another max FA for 2016. As for replacing him with a max FA for 2017, Lebron will be a UFA. Lebron will be looking at what will likely be his last max deal (unless he continues with the 2 year deals with a 1 year opt out), the Cavs will have to pay him huge money to keep him. That could cut into how much they can pay for another top FA. He's as much as said that he's not giving anymore "discounts."

3.) I agree to a point. I think the best way for the Cavs to keep Love is if they make it to the finals and lose. If they don't make the finals at all, I doubt he returns. The exception might be if they lose the ECF in 7 games. Anything less, I think he's gone. If the Cavs win the title, they may also lose him because he may decide "I've got my ring" and decide to move on to a situation where he feels more comfortable. If they lose in the finals, however, then he may decide to return (even on a 1 year deal) to try and "finish the job."

As you said though, any speculation about Love leaving is just that.....speculation. However, where there's smoke, there's usually fire and there's been a lot of smoke. Remember when everyone said "There's no way Lebron leaves Miami after going to 4 straight finals and winning back to back titles?"

 

[Black Adam]

I'm sure you are because he is all you have ever had for forever. Its win or BUST forever.
Is losing James alot to overcome? Yep.
Has, can, the Heat win without James? Yep.

We are already in quick reload mode. The long term additions of Whiteside/Dragic will in a few years at most look like a much better option then a ready to retire,worn out James.

@Wiggy telling anyone they don't know basketball.

he DOES have entertainment value, though...

 

[bksballer89]

The reintroduction of Dwyane Wade to the basketball world - CBSSports.com

Just for you @WiggyRuss

 

[gordontrue]

1.) Not sure how that works.

2.) The cap won't increase until AFTER next season, Love could leave after THIS season which means the Cavs would not have the cap space to replace him with another max FA for 2016. As for replacing him with a max FA for 2017, Lebron will be a UFA. Lebron will be looking at what will likely be his last max deal (unless he continues with the 2 year deals with a 1 year opt out), the Cavs will have to pay him huge money to keep him. That could cut into how much they can pay for another top FA. He's as much as said that he's not giving anymore "discounts."

3.) I agree to a point. I think the best way for the Cavs to keep Love is if they make it to the finals and lose. If they don't make the finals at all, I doubt he returns. The exception might be if they lose the ECF in 7 games. Anything less, I think he's gone. If the Cavs win the title, they may also lose him because he may decide "I've got my ring" and decide to move on to a situation where he feels more comfortable. If they lose in the finals, however, then he may decide to return (even on a 1 year deal) to try and "finish the job."

As you said though, any speculation about Love leaving is just that.....speculation. However, where there's smoke, there's usually fire and there's been a lot of smoke. Remember when everyone said "There's no way Lebron leaves Miami after going to 4 straight finals and winning back to back titles?"

1) Just means that the Cavs can pay him more than anyone else. If he wants a true max salary... he either needs to sign with the Cavs... or get a team to agree on a sign-and-trade with the Cavs... in which case they'd be getting something back. The negotiation on a sign-and-trade is tricky. It comes down to how much the player is truly willing to leave the larry bird rights money on the table. If he truly is... the Cavs won't be able to get much back if anything. If he is unwilling... the Cavs could get some pretty serious value back.
2) My bad, you're right... good point
3) Yep, sounds about right to me... as things stand right now.

 

[WiggyRuss]

The reintroduction of Dwyane Wade to the basketball world - CBSSports.com

Just for you @WiggyRuss

doesn't that just say everything that he has to be "reintroduced"?

I'll start buying in once the Heat are a .500 team

 

[lakersrule]

1) Just means that the Cavs can pay him more than anyone else. If he wants a true max salary... he either needs to sign with the Cavs... or get a team to agree on a sign-and-trade with the Cavs... in which case they'd be getting something back. The negotiation on a sign-and-trade is tricky. It comes down to how much the player is truly willing to leave the larry bird rights money on the table. If he truly is... the Cavs won't be able to get much back if anything. If he is unwilling... the Cavs could get some pretty serious value back.
2) My bad, you're right... good point
3) Yep, sounds about right to me... as things stand right now.

The sign and trade deals are a little different now. Love can get the 5-year max deal by signing with Cleveland. However, in a current sign and trade deal, they can only give Love the same contract he would get by signing with the new team (4 years and smaller raises). Only makes sense if the team trading for Love doesn't have the cap space to outright sign him. There's really no benefit for the player.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

doesn't that just say everything that he has to be "reintroduced"?

I'll start buying in once the Heat are a .500 team

Why does that matter at all?
What would the Cavs record be if they didn't make roster changes?
All that matters when you enter the playoffs is what your'e current roster is.
How healthy it is.
How well they are playing.
Matchups vs opponent.

Right now. Today. The Heat would be a tough match up for anyone in the East IMO.
Would we beat some above the teams above us in a 4/7? Maybe, maybe not.

I think a much truer evaluation of the Heat can be made after next week when they come off the 4 game tough road trip. If they win 2 or 3 of those, I'll will feel much better about our chances.

 

[Black Adam]

Why does that matter at all?
What would the Cavs record be if they didn't make roster changes?
All that matters when you enter the playoffs is what your'e current roster is.
How healthy it is.
How well they are playing.
Matchups vs opponent.

Right now. Today. The Heat would be a tough match up for anyone in the East IMO.
Would we beat some above the teams above us in a 4/7? Maybe, maybe not.

I think a much truer evaluation of the Heat can be made after next week when they come off the 4 game tough road trip. If they win 2 or 3 of those, I'll will feel much better about our chances.

who're they playing in those 4 games...?

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

who're they playing in those 4 games...?

@ Ok City, Milwaukee, Boston, and Atlanta.
Milwaukee is fading fast.
6 seed still possible if we beat them.

 

[bksballer89]

who're they playing in those 4 games...?

I believe OKC, Milwaukee, Boston, & Atlanta.

I'll be happy with 2-2 with wins over Boston & Milwaukee

 

[shabazz916]

lebron is giving the heat a false since of hope... and wade body will not hold up in the playoffs

 

[bksballer89]

lebron is giving the heat a false since of hope... and wade body will not hold up in the playoffs

Hope of what? Haven't seen anyone predicted Miami make it past round 1. Yes we do think we'll make the playoffs....And this has nothing to do with just beating the Cavs. Wade has been a different player since March and we're finally healthy as we had to play quite a few games since Bosh went down without Wade, Dragic, Deng, or Whiteside which are our best 4 players

 

[WiggyRuss]

like i said- the Heat's first 4 is very very solid...

but because of injuries and trades- their roster from spots 5 through 10 is really piss poor. Rest and health for those 4 guys- especially because 2 of them have a ton of miles on their odometer is crucial.

I think the Heat should make the playoffs though. Dragic has really gave their offense a huge boost. Their offense, especially when Wade sat, was just the most clunky, grind it out, half court offense I have seen in a long time.

Dragic has given them a huge boost on the offensive side. Their offense actually has some flow to it- and like i said- Dragic has been great- not only distributing, but shooting himself at that 52%+ level....thats pretty darn crazy.

The Heat still lack spacing and three point shooting- they are a throw back offense in that its almost all 2's. We have all seen that the NBA has really moved to spacing and more 3's - since its a more efficient shot- the Spurs started the trend and it has really gone throughout the league.

No one on the Heat is a good three point shooter- they have a couple decent ones.....If they had Bosh who coudl give them some spacing I would probably have them in that 2nd group with Toronto and Washington- and really they would PROBABLY be the most talented starting lineup wise, while probably with the worst bench- but id put them at the top of those 3 teams probably. The East's first tier would obviously be Cleveland, Chicago, Atlanta- with Miami, Wash and Tor at that 2nd tier...

 

[WiggyRuss]

I am telling you right now- I would much rather have the Cavs play Miami than Indiana first round. There is no doubt in my mind. Indiana is just such a tough team.