Heat own Cleveland once again in Miami

[Black Adam]

Funnier, he still claims it isn't championship or bust.
With all of the teams in the East (except possible the Hawks) either flaming out of being injury riddled and knowing how brutal the WC playoffs will be, how can any Cavs fan NOT think this will be probably the clearest path to a title one can ever hope for?

And, I happen to still think Memphis is still very good and will give any team a fit in a 4/7 series.
One game is one game.
I didn't see 1 minute of that game last night, so no way I can specifically comment on it.

Any, if you are going by regular season domination ( which I'm not), then you would have to say the Hawks have the Cavs number.

and no one...and i mean NO ONE...is buying that baloney that this isn't a title or bust situation. so i guess certain Cavs fans can try to play it off if they'd like...

 

[gordontrue]

I don't understand the whole obsession with the 'title or bust' thing with the Cavs.

Whether a year is "Title or Bust" for a particular team is completely subjective. Its up to the individual person/fan. What are your personal expectations for your team? What would you consider a successful year? What would you consider a failure? That is going to be different for every person.

Personally, I don't view this as a Title or Bust year for the Cavs. I do view it as an Eastern Conference Champions or bust year. I would absolutely consider getting to the Finals a successful year 1 with LeBron back in Cleveland.

I would consider not getting to the Finals a failure. I would consider not winning at least 1 title while LeBron is in Cleveland a failure.


As far as the public perception... sure. LeBron (and thus, the Cavs) will get killed for losing a playoff series no matter when it happens. That will continue for at least the next few years. I do think if they get to the Finals and lose to the Warriors or Spurs that he won't get killed as bad.

 

[trojanfan12]

I don't understand the whole obsession with the 'title or bust' thing with the Cavs.

Whether a year is "Title or Bust" for a particular team is completely subjective. Its up to the individual person/fan. What are your personal expectations for your team? What would you consider a successful year? What would you consider a failure? That is going to be different for every person.

Personally, I don't view this as a Title or Bust year for the Cavs. I do view it as an Eastern Conference Champions or bust year. I would absolutely consider getting to the Finals a successful year 1 with LeBron back in Cleveland.

I would consider not getting to the Finals a failure. I would consider not winning at least 1 title while LeBron is in Cleveland a failure.


As far as the public perception... sure. LeBron (and thus, the Cavs) will get killed for losing a playoff series no matter when it happens. That will continue for at least the next few years. I do think if they get to the Finals and lose to the Warriors or Spurs that he won't get killed as bad.

Uh no, "title or bust" in not up to the individual fan. "Title or bust" is based on what teams do to improve themselves and who is playing on the team.

When Lebron and Bosh joined D-Wade in Miami, it was title or bust for them every year. When the Lakers picked up Nash and Dwight to play alongside Kobe, it was title of bust.

Now that the Cavs have added Lebron and Love, plus all of the other moves they have made, they are title or bust. Sorry, but when you do what the Cavs have done, you put the target squarely on your own back and you become a title or bust team. Regardless of whether certain individual fans think it should be or not.

That's just how it works. Always has.

 

[bksballer89]

Yeah it is title or bust every year. When you have LeBron & 2 other stars you should expect to win a title every year. Doesn't mean it will happen but it should be what is expected and if doesn't your season should be looked at as a failure/disappointment.

 

[bksballer89]

Even as a fan it should feel that way. You know how bad 11 hurt heat fans? Last year sucked as well but would have felt much worse had we not won the previous 2 years....but 2011 felt like a waste of time to be honest

 

[gordontrue]

So you are saying that the statement that the Cavs are a "title-or-bust" team is a completely objective fact that can be verified independent of the feelings of any one individual or group of individuals?

If its so objective... what are the criteria? What is the list of unequivocally title-or-bust teams that meet the criteria?


Get serious... it is subjective.

 

[gordontrue]

Even as a fan it should feel that way. You know how bad 11 hurt heat fans? Last year sucked as well but would have felt much worse had we not won the previous 2 years....but 2011 felt like a waste of time to be honest

[First the disclaimer, that you all already know, that I was never a "Heat" fan in the true meaning of the phrase... and I don't pretend to represent one]

It was very painful... and definitely much more so than last year... but I personally disagree that it was a waste of time. To me it felt like an important step on the path towards pursuing a title. It felt like the team learned a lot, experienced a lot, and were more prepared to chase the ring the next year.

That's how I feel about the Cavs this year. I really want them to get the title. I hope they do. I think they are capable. But I will absolutely look positively at a run that includes getting out of the East regardless of how the Finals go down.

Anything short of getting out of the East (given the current state of the other teams) I will have a hard time seeing the positive in (at least not until after later success)... so for me, that's where my line is.

I really (mostly) don't care about the opinions of other Cavs fans, or other teams' fans, or the general public perception. I used to... but the last 4 years took a lot of that out of me.

 

[trojanfan12]

So you are saying that the statement that the Cavs are a "title-or-bust" team is a completely objective fact that can be verified independent of the feelings of any one individual or group of individuals?

If its so objective... what are the criteria? What is the list of unequivocally title-or-bust teams that meet the criteria?


Get serious... it is subjective.

The criteria has already been spelled out for you. You just don't like it.

When the vast majority of fans and "experts" are saying that it's title or bust, it's title or bust. Had the Cavs stuck with the team that they had when Lebron signed with them, then you could make a case for them not being title or bust because it would have been Lebron and a bunch of kids who are still learning the game.

However, every move that they have made since Lebron signed has been to bring in experienced, veteran players. The reason you bring in experienced veteran players is to win now, not 2-3 years from now.

Like it or not. It's title or bust for the Cavs.

 

[gordontrue]

The criteria has already been spelled out for you. You just don't like it.

When the vast majority of fans and "experts" are saying that it's title or bust, it's title or bust. Had the Cavs stuck with the team that they had when Lebron signed with them, then you could make a case for them not being title or bust because it would have been Lebron and a bunch of kids who are still learning the game.

However, every move that they have made since Lebron signed has been to bring in experienced, veteran players. The reason you bring in experienced veteran players is to win now, not 2-3 years from now.

Like it or not. It's title or bust for the Cavs.

If that is how the vast majority of people feel (I agree that it is)... that's great, I have zero problem with that. I really don't care.

I have no interest in convincing anyone else that it isn't title or bust... because, like I said, its all subjective. I stated what my own personal expectations and hopes are for the Cavs. How other fanbases feel about... or even other Cavs fans... doesn't matter at all to me.

 

[trojanfan12]

If that is how the vast majority of people feel (I agree that it is)... that's great, I have zero problem with that. I really don't care.

I have no interest in convincing anyone else that it isn't title or bust... because, like I said, its all subjective. I stated what my own personal expectations and hopes are for the Cavs. How other fanbases feel about... or even other Cavs fans... doesn't matter at all to me.

I guess I just don't get how a Cavs fan can look at all of the moves that have been made and have anything less than a title or bust mindset.

Put it this way, if the Lakers made no other moves in the off-season but sign Lebron and add him to the current roster. I would not have a title or bust mindset.

However, if the Lakers added Lebron and Kevin Love to a hopefully healthy Kobe and made some other moves similar to what the Cavs have done, I would absolutely have a title or bust mindset. Just like I did when they added Nash and Dwight.

 

[gordontrue]

I guess I just don't get how a Cavs fan can look at all of the moves that have been made and have anything less than a title or bust mindset.

Put it this way, if the Lakers made no other moves in the off-season but sign Lebron and add him to the current roster. I would not have a title or bust mindset.

However, if the Lakers added Lebron and Kevin Love to a hopefully healthy Kobe and made some other moves similar to what the Cavs have done, I would absolutely have a title or bust mindset. Just like I did when they added Nash and Dwight.

I get that.

Part of it might be because of my experience as a Lebron (and by extension Heat) fan the last 4 years. I have an appreciation for the fact that coming up short in a title run can be a positive (maybe even necessary) step towards an ultimately successful title run.

Or maybe where we differ is how we define "title or bust". I absolutely am rooting for a title for the Cavs this year, and am - at times - feeling very good about those chances. This is a roster that should contend for a title, no question. Where I'll stop short is calling the year a failure if they don't get it.

Again, for me the line is at winning the East. There is no good reason this team shouldn't come out of the East. There are, IMO 2 good reasons they don't win the title. And those 2 reasons are the Warriors and Spurs. Not that I don't think they can beat them and maybe even should... but those are good enough teams that I could still feel good about the progress of the team losing to 1 of them.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I get that.

Part of it might be because of my experience as a Lebron (and by extension Heat) fan the last 4 years. I have an appreciation for the fact that coming up short in a title run can be a positive (maybe even necessary) step towards an ultimately successful title run.

Or maybe where we differ is how we define "title or bust". I absolutely am rooting for a title for the Cavs this year, and am - at times - feeling very good about those chances. This is a roster that should contend for a title, no question. Where I'll stop short is calling the year a failure if they don't get it.

Again, for me the line is at winning the East. There is no good reason this team shouldn't come out of the East. There are, IMO 2 good reasons they don't win the title. And those 2 reasons are the Warriors and Spurs. Not that I don't think they can beat them and maybe even should... but those are good enough teams that I could still feel good about the progress of the team losing to 1 of them.

I agree with everything written here, and as a fan of James or a Cav fan in general might be satisfied, but to James and the other players it is for sure championship or bust just as it was here for 4 seasons.

 

[WiggyRuss]

[First the disclaimer, that you all already know, that I was never a "Heat" fan in the true meaning of the phrase... and I don't pretend to represent one]

It was very painful... and definitely much more so than last year... but I personally disagree that it was a waste of time. To me it felt like an important step on the path towards pursuing a title. It felt like the team learned a lot, experienced a lot, and were more prepared to chase the ring the next year.

That's how I feel about the Cavs this year. I really want them to get the title. I hope they do. I think they are capable. But I will absolutely look positively at a run that includes getting out of the East regardless of how the Finals go down.

Anything short of getting out of the East (given the current state of the other teams) I will have a hard time seeing the positive in (at least not until after later success)... so for me, that's where my line is.

I really (mostly) don't care about the opinions of other Cavs fans, or other teams' fans, or the general public perception. I used to... but the last 4 years took a lot of that out of me.

I mean geez- as a Cleveland fan it SOUNDS RIDICULOUS to say we "expect" a title and its "title or bust"--- lol, i mean do these people know that Cleveland has not won a title since 1964? Do they remember how crazy talented some of those Indians teams were that never won it? I mean shit- in 1995- think of that team and the players on it- Omar Vizquel- future hall of famer, Jime Thome, future hall of famer, Albert Belle- if his career did not end early because of injury likely hall of famer, Dave Winfield as a vet- hall of famer, Eddie Murray as the DH at the end of his career- Hall of famer- a young Manny Ramirez - hall of famer- a very good pitching staff that led the league in ERA with Hershiser, Nagy, Dennis Martinez- Mesa- the best closer in baseball that year EASILY.....

to try and think that any team in any sport is "title or bust" is just beyond me- especially when the team has such a bright future like the Cavs...but as a Cleveland sports fan to hear the term "title or bust" i think is just HILARIOUS, lol- i mean this team ahs not even made the playoffs in 4 years, has a brand new coach and entirely different roster!

I can appreciate other fans from the outside looking in thinking flippantly- they have a lot of talent and should win it! but to me that just totally is an oversimplification and is such a narrow view of the larger picture.--- HELL- The only time Ihave even seen teams in a championship series are the Indians in 95, 97, and the Cavs in 07! to me it is so plain ridiculous the notion of "title or bust"...the Cavs are playing against HISTORY with so much baggage on their backs that other people who are not Cleveland fans could not even BEGIN to understand

I would be overjoyed to see 3 playoff series wins and my team in the Finals against say Golden State or RW and Durant if he is healthy, or San Antonio!--- and the best part is- as long as Love does not spurn the most money and best chance to win- this is JUST THE BEGINNING of the party that is going to last the better part of the next decade!

 

[trojanfan12]

I mean geez- as a Cleveland fan it SOUNDS RIDICULOUS to say we "expect" a title and its "title or bust"--- lol, i mean do these people know that Cleveland has not won a title since 1964? Do they remember how crazy talented some of those Indians teams were that never won it? I mean shit- in 1995- think of that team and the players on it- Omar Vizquel- future hall of famer, Jime Thome, future hall of famer, Albert Belle- if his career did not end early because of injury likely hall of famer, Dave Winfield as a vet- hall of famer, Eddie Murray as the DH at the end of his career- Hall of famer- a young Manny Ramirez - hall of famer- a very good pitching staff that led the league in ERA with Hershiser, Nagy, Dennis Martinez- Mesa- the best closer in baseball that year EASILY.....

to try and think that any team in any sport is "title or bust" is just beyond me- especially when the team has such a bright future like the Cavs...but as a Cleveland sports fan to hear the term "title or bust" i think is just HILARIOUS, lol- i mean this team ahs not even made the playoffs in 4 years, has a brand new coach and entirely different roster!

I can appreciate other fans from the outside looking in thinking flippantly- they have a lot of talent and should win it! but to me that just totally is an oversimplification and is such a narrow view of the larger picture.--- HELL- The only time Ihave even seen teams in a championship series are the Indians in 95, 97, and the Cavs in 07! to me it is so plain ridiculous the notion of "title or bust"...the Cavs are playing against HISTORY with so much baggage on their backs that other people who are not Cleveland fans could not even BEGIN to understand

I would be overjoyed to see 3 playoff series wins and my team in the Finals against say Golden State or RW and Durant if he is healthy, or San Antonio!--- and the best part is- as long as Love does not spurn the most money and best chance to win- this is JUST THE BEGINNING of the party that is going to last the better part of the next decade!

Nothing but pure, hedging your bet, nonsense. The return of Lebron and ALL OF THE MOVES that Cleveland has made since Lebron signed are about 1 thing and 1 thing only......winning a title right now. Those moves were not made to win 3-4 years from now. Those moves were made to win right now and continue winning for the next 3-4 seasons. The Cavs think they can do what Miami just did only better than Miami did it.

You can cry about Cleveland's woeful sports history all that you want, but that won't change the fact that everything Cleveland has been doing has been about winning right now.

The team you claim to love is in title or bust mode. You should stop being a pussy, go all in and join them. C'mon man, y'all have a river to set on fire in June.

 

[bksballer89]

Lmao @ cavs & LeBron fans

 

[gordontrue]

Nothing but pure, hedging your bet, nonsense. The return of Lebron and ALL OF THE MOVES that Cleveland has made since Lebron signed are about 1 thing and 1 thing only......winning a title right now. Those moves were not made to win 3-4 years from now. Those moves were made to win right now and continue winning for the next 3-4 seasons. The Cavs think they can do what Miami just did only better than Miami did it.

Exactly.

 

[bksballer89]

So this is how the cavs look when the supporting cast is MIA

 

[Black Adam]

So this is how the cavs look when the supporting cast is MIA

wasn't pretty down the stretch...

and LeBron pretty much pulled a disappearing act in the second half...

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

wasn't pretty down the stretch...

and LeBron pretty much pulled a disappearing act in the second half...

So did Wiggy.

I didn't see any of the game.
What happened to, and why did Mozgov play so few minutes?

 

[trojanfan12]

wasn't pretty down the stretch...

and LeBron pretty much pulled a disappearing act in the second half...

The hell you say? Why, how dare you sir. Lebron neeeeever pulls late game disappearing acts. He's never flopped either.