Grievance?!? NHLPA expected to file one today...

[devs30rko]

and for the record everyone, lou is non existant in this case. the only thing he and the devils are allowed to do is to restructure the contract during this process in case the nhlpa doesn't win.
he is not allowed to file an appeal, he is not in the court, he has essentially nothing to do with the case from this point on.
there is no rule stating that a player can make the make the max at one point in his contract and can't make the minimum in the same one, as long as they are seperated by 2 years. you cna't have the straiht drop off thats all.

the nhl as i said in the previous post must essentially prove kovy won't be playing til he is 44 because if there is the slightest possibility he will they lose, according the rules of the CBA.

the long term front loaded contracts of hossa, zets, franzen, louongo, and pronger .... several of which extend until te player is as old as 42, combined with the names recchi, chelios, hasek, claude lemieux, hell even howe, do NOT help the NHL win this case

 

[devs30rko]

you keep saying that. no, they don't have to prove anything.
the term "reasonable expectation" will be thrown around a lot in the proceedings.

fair enough.
but when i read the article.... 26? i think it was? it said both parties the team and the player have to have the expectation that the players will fulfill the contract,

as i stated in the post i put below, don't think for a second the nhl won't have their hands full even with the term reasonable expectation.



i am trying to remain as unbiased as i can here, i know that i probably won't satisfy many on here with my view points, but i do believe that if you think the NHL wins easily, you have a lot more that you should be accounting for.

 

[devs30rko]

and apololis puckhead, if you had pointed that out to me in another thread i missed it as i haven't been on much the past couple of days.

 

[devs30rko]

If it does go through I would love for the next CBA to have the actual years salary be the cap hit with these not being grandfathered. It should happen right when the 11 mill years start for the Devils.

that'd be extremely hard on a lot of teams.

the more logical way to solve it would be to put a max on contract length.... say 10 years.

 

[ELYEAH82]

that'd be extremely hard on a lot of teams.

the more logical way to solve it would be to put a max on contract length.... say 10 years.

It would be hard on all the teams it should be hard on. If you claim the Hossa deal among others are being let through, this would catch all of them equally and would not require grandfather status since it changes interpertation of the cap not the contract.

 

[devs30rko]

It would be hard on all the teams it should be hard on. If you claim the Hossa deal among others are being let through, this would catch all of them equally and would not require grandfather status since it changes interpertation of the cap not the contract.

don't get me wrong, a lot of me agrees with you

but say you are the nhl, you allowed those contracts, meaning they weren't breaking any rules under the CBA you designed with the NHLPA,
why would you punish them all for it? they didn't truely break the rules that was essentially admitted in allowing them to go through in the first place.
punishing them would only make a mockery of it all.

 

[ELYEAH82]

I dont see it as punishment I see it as leveling the playing field.

 

[dash]

Okay, so Kovy's contract drops off more dramatically than Bobby Lou's and Hossa's, but is it really that different?!?

Vancouver Canucks goaltender Roberto Luongo has a $63 million, 12-year deal that pays only $7 million over the final four seasons and takes him to age 43. Marian Hossa of the Chicago Blackhawks will be 42 at the end of his $62.8 million, 12-year contract that pays $3.5 million in the last four seasons.

 

[pixburgher66]

i think the biggest issue for me is that he's just making SO little for 5 YEARS. if it were, say, 2 years and a little more spread out, i wouldn't mind it too much. but 5 years at league minimum?? come on...you've seen what even the old farts are getting NOW, let alone in a decade! it's NOT league minimum (think of guys like recchi, guerin, kariya, selanne, etc.). they're not making big bucks (in their standards, i'd be freaking delusionally happy if i made league minimum), but they're making more than the minimum.

 

[dare2be]

IMO, yes...6 years (instead of 4) at or near league minimum after a quick drop off from multiple years at league maximum...not even close, again IMO.

Also, by the time his league minimum years come around, the league minimum will probably be much higher...

 

[dash]

IMO, yes...6 years (instead of 4) at or near league minimum after a quick drop off from multiple years at league maximum...not even close, again IMO.

Also, by the time his league minimum years come around, the league minimum will probably be much higher...

It definitely pushes the envelope, that's for sure. Of course, I'm hoping the NHLPA wins because I like Kovy out east (the last thing the Kings need is another 40 goals in the lineup).

 

[Darkstone42]

Let's do a little comparison of the two contracts, Hossa's and Kovalchuk's.

Hossa first:

7 years at 7.9, 1 at 4, and 4 at 1. Let's divide it into thirds:

1st thrid - 31.6 (49.9% of salary)
2nd third - 27.7 (43.8% of salary)
3rd third - 4 (6.3% of salary)

Highest salary - 7.9
Lowest salary - 1
Difference - 6.9

Cap Hit - 5.275
Max difference over - 2.625
Max difference under - 4.275

Largest season-to-season difference - 3.9
Percentage difference - 49.4%
Percentage drop from highest salary to lowest salary - 87.3%

Now Kovalchuk's (Division of thirds is 6/6/5)

1st 35% - 58 (56.9% of salary)
2nd 35% - 41.25 (40.4% of salary)
3rd 30% - 2.75 (2.7% of salary)

Highest salary - 11.5
Lowest salary - 0.55
Difference - 10.95

Cap hit - 6
Max difference over - 5.5
Max difference under - 5.45

Largest season-to-season difference - 5.5
Percent difference - 47.8%
Percent drop from highest to lowest salary - 95.2%

Make of these numbers what you will. I tend to think that the NHL should have disallowed Hossa's contract, but in almost every way, Kovalchuk's is worse. I think if someone would classify Hossa's as a gray-area on whether or not it was a blatant attempt to circumvent the Cap, Kovalchuk's clearly is a blatant attempt to do so. Or it's at least a little less gray.

 

[beantownmaniac]

Great discussion. I gave you all some rep. Enjoy

Well except ELYEAH cuz I gave ya some recently and it said to spread it around. I'll get ya some soon

 

[devs30rko]

Let's do a little comparison of the two contracts, Hossa's and Kovalchuk's.

Hossa first:

7 years at 7.9, 1 at 4, and 4 at 1. Let's divide it into thirds:

1st thrid - 31.6 (49.9% of salary)
2nd third - 27.7 (43.8% of salary)
3rd third - 4 (6.3% of salary)

Highest salary - 7.9
Lowest salary - 1
Difference - 6.9

Cap Hit - 5.275
Max difference over - 2.625
Max difference under - 4.275

Largest season-to-season difference - 3.9
Percentage difference - 49.4%
Percentage drop from highest salary to lowest salary - 87.3%

Now Kovalchuk's (Division of thirds is 6/6/5)

1st 35% - 58 (56.9% of salary)
2nd 35% - 41.25 (40.4% of salary)
3rd 30% - 2.75 (2.7% of salary)

Highest salary - 11.5
Lowest salary - 0.55
Difference - 10.95

Cap hit - 6
Max difference over - 5.5
Max difference under - 5.45

Largest season-to-season difference - 5.5
Percent difference - 47.8%
Percent drop from highest to lowest salary - 95.2%

Make of these numbers what you will. I tend to think that the NHL should have disallowed Hossa's contract, but in almost every way, Kovalchuk's is worse. I think if someone would classify Hossa's as a gray-area on whether or not it was a blatant attempt to circumvent the Cap, Kovalchuk's clearly is a blatant attempt to do so. Or it's at least a little less gray.

i have stated before and will state again that i'm not for these style contracts and i'm somewhat embarrassed that my favorte team has dove into this style.

however, in the topic of circumvention, within the laws of the CBA that pertain to it,

a)where does it say a limit in salary drop off that the devils broke?
b)that x amount of the contracts total money must be used in y amount of the contract.

 

[pixburgher66]

devs, i get your point, but the issue is that the rule is kind of a blanket statement...that's why the issue exists. all it says is that a contract can't circumvent the cap...well, in the opinion of MOST this is a blatant circumvention of the cap. so, while i understand that it doesn't specifically rule-out anything that they did, and the rule NEEDS to add a few more specifics, it's still a violation of the CBA. that's me though...and i understand why you're hesitant to feel that way, because, well, i'd be too if i were in your shoes.

 

[Nasty_Magician]

I agree that I'm not a huge fan of these contracts. However, as Devs30 pointed out, the NHL has very little justification for rejecting it. I don't know who wins this one, but it is much more of an uphill battle for the NHL.

Also, let's not forget that this contract is a huge risk for the Devils. Anytime you invest $102 million you are potentially setting yourself up for disaster (such as Kovy having injury problems, a drop off in play, actually playing until he is 44 and having a 6 mill cap hit).

 

[devs30rko]

devs, i get your point, but the issue is that the rule is kind of a blanket statement...that's why the issue exists. all it says is that a contract can't circumvent the cap...well, in the opinion of MOST this is a blatant circumvention of the cap. so, while i understand that it doesn't specifically rule-out anything that they did, and the rule NEEDS to add a few more specifics, it's still a violation of the CBA. that's me though...and i understand why you're hesitant to feel that way, because, well, i'd be too if i were in your shoes.

well in all honesty pix, thats kinda my point, and just like you said thats why the issue exists. the vagueness is a killer, and if its going to kill anyone its the league, the nhlpa has the ability to essentailly use that vagueness to their advantage.

 

[beantownmaniac]

I think if the Devils restructure the contract to not have the big drop off at the end of it, then kovy is in NJ. Personally, I don't like the contract as it is.

 

[devs30rko]

I think if the Devils restructure the contract to not have the big drop off at the end of it, then kovy is in NJ. Personally, I don't like the contract as it is.

this i definately agree with,

hell.... why not just take a another 3 mil of that, esp from the 11.5 years and put in in the first 3 of the last 5 years.

 

[devs30rko]

how the hell do i get the devils logo under my avatar ahah