Greg Cosell: 49ers are pretenders

[deep9er]

No... the D is fucking exceptional. No rushing TDs until the end, 229 total points against, creates turnovers, doesn't generally give up big plays.

Only 5 other teams have given up less points this century I believe (so that's like 5 out of something like 384 teams this century)...

If that isn't exceptional then that word should be removed from the dictionary.

yes, this is what we're hoping for - slowing these guys down, give up less points. our D is solid but it'll give up yards, can't see us stopping these guys 'cold'?

they'll get their yards between the 20's, but we hope to limit them into more field goals.

 

[Mozart'sGhost]

No... the D is fucking exceptional. No rushing TDs until the end, 229 total points against, creates turnovers, doesn't generally give up big plays.

Only 5 other teams have given up less points this century I believe (so that's like 5 out of something like 384 teams this century)...

If that isn't exceptional then that word should be removed from the dictionary.

They really didn't play anybody with a great offense. The closest thing was Dallas and Dallas lit 'em up pretty good. As for the no running TD thing; no one runs the ball anymore; its all about passing. The 49ers did a very good job of defending this year, mainly due to a huge amount of turnovers but to call them exceptional is overdoing it in my opinion.
I would save the "exceptional" description for offenses like GB and N.O.

 

[Mozart'sGhost]

"manipulated" just doesn't read right?

the key here are the rule changes and yes, can't deny its favored the offense. the trend is clearly toward passing offenses, and we see many spread formations whether called 'spread' or not.

if a QB is 'hot' that day, then yeah, a great defense can't stop it. a well timed, accurate pass can't be defended.

When I say "manipulate" I'm talking about being able to dictate to the other team what they can either on offense or defense. I think its easier done to a prolific defense than a prolific offense

 

[9er4life]

49ers D finished 16th against the pass, that is not exceptional.

They did play 5 out of the top 10 ranked passing offenses (4. Lions, 5. Giants, 7. Cowboys, 9. Eagles, 10. Steelers.)

The 9ers D is pretty good, I'm not debating that, but turnovers played a critical part in it's success. I don't think you can count on that year in, year out. I just hope it continues all the way to the SB!

 

[deep9er]

When I say "manipulate" I'm talking about being able to dictate to the other team what they can either on offense or defense. I think its easier done to a prolific defense than a prolific offense

i get the gist and agree with it, but not agreeing with how you're describing it?

agree with the gist which is..............when a pass play is well executed, even an exceptional D can't stop it.

 

[h0ckeysk83r]

Was it mike Tomlin that said something along the lines of the 49ers forcing the steelers to play 49er football?

That is what we are gonna need to do to beat the high powered offenses.

 

[deep9er]

49ers D finished 16th against the pass, that is not exceptional.

They did play 5 out of the top 10 ranked passing offenses (4. Lions, 5. Giants, 7. Cowboys, 9. Eagles, 10. Steelers.)

The 9ers D is pretty good, I'm not debating that, but turnovers played a critical part in it's success. I don't think you can count on that year in, year out. I just hope it continues all the way to the SB!

yep, turnovers are more (not all) mistakes by the offense, versus caused by the defense. so with good teams - ie play-off teams - we shouldn't expect our D to get turnovers.

when Arizona reached the SB, they got something like 3 turnovers each play-off game? but thats the exception, not the rule.

 

[Mozart'sGhost]

i get the gist and agree with it, but not agreeing with how you're describing it?

agree with the gist which is..............when a pass play is well executed, even an exceptional D can't stop it.

That's some of it yea, but its more. Its personnel packages and formations; does your 5 wide set force the defense out of their preferred 8 man in the box. Is your talent in the pass game enough to force the defense out of what it wants to do or is that defense good enough to force you out of your 5 wide and make you put people in to block. That is what I mean by "manipulate"; who is dictating to who. When a great offense is "on" it is harder to stop than a great defense when it is "on".
The point here is probably moot because I don't think the 49ers have a "great" defense. The are good but depended on a lot of turnovers.

 

[iHATEdodgers]

49ers D finished 16th against the pass, that is not exceptional.

They did play 5 out of the top 10 ranked passing offenses (4. Lions, 5. Giants, 7. Cowboys, 9. Eagles, 10. Steelers.)

The 9ers D is pretty good, I'm not debating that, but turnovers played a critical part in it's success. I don't think you can count on that year in, year out. I just hope it continues all the way to the SB!

Who gives a shat about yards? It's all about points. And we ranked 2nd in points against (229 Pitts gave up 227) - only because the D checked out early against the Rams at the end there. The D is also excellent in the redzone. I understand the point being made about turnovers, but like I said points against is the best parameter.

Only 11 other teams gave up less points since 2000 as Adelaide correctly pointed out so only 12 teams out of 384 have given up 229 points or less, I don't see how that is not exceptional. That's in the top 3.125% of defenses since 2000.

 

[Flyingiguana]

i get the gist and agree with it, but not agreeing with how you're describing it?

agree with the gist which is..............when a pass play is well executed, even an exceptional D can't stop it.

an exceptional d makes execution harder and sometimes impossible.

 

[Mozart'sGhost]

an exceptional d makes execution harder and sometimes impossible.

Same with an excellent O only the rules today make it easier to control a game with a great offense than with a great defense.

 

[AdelaideCrows83]

Who gives a shat about yards?

This is a pet peeve of mine also, seeing teams ranked by total yards.

I think Passer Rating allowed is a better measure of the success of a passing defense than yards allowed. We all know the rating has it's flaws, but I still prefer that as a way to rank the teams than just total yards.

SF were ranked 5th in the NFL this season in Passer Rating against, behind the Ravens, Texans, Jets and Steelers. FWIW, the Packers were ranked 9th, Lions 12th, Falcons 14th, Giants 20th, Saints 22nd.

The Niners defense were also tied for 7th in sacks.