Great QBs debate

[Mingo]

We like to hear that for young QBs competing makes them better and the best will win out. It seems to make sense.

However, a case can be made that great QBs have the job handed to them. This case can be made because that is the way it seems to happen in the NFL history. Very few QBs come out of QB competitions -most get the jobs handed to them - out of desperation or because of investments. I'm not saying QBs who get the job handed to them works out at a high rate - most of the time it fails. Yet - I can only think of Roger Stauback beating out Craig Morton - as a competition that the winner went on to a HOF career (and the loser was a pretty good QB too).

They say if you have two QBs you don't really have a QB. The Broncos probably need to hand the job to Lynch and find out early if he is going to grow in the job. Lynch has the MO from his life story - and his college career to be a guy who can make plays by getting into the flow of the game and responding to it emotionally - while Trevor is the kind of a guy who will out prepare you to get better. So the only way we can find out if Lynch can play the position at a high level - is be giving him opportunities to do it. I hate to say it - I'm a Trevor Siemian fan.

I believe we are going into year 3 of control on Siemian's first contract - while we are going into year 2 of the 5 years in Lynch's contract. Lynch has to be given an opportunity to lead the team now - because if he fails the Broncos still have another year of Siemian under control. If Lynch fails - trade him - if Lynch succeeds trade Siemian.

 

[randymon]

We like to hear that for young QBs competing makes them better and the best will win out. It seems to make sense.

However, a case can be made that great QBs have the job handed to them. This case can be made because that is the way it seems to happen in the NFL history. Very few QBs come out of QB competitions -most get the jobs handed to them - out of desperation or because of investments. I'm not saying QBs who get the job handed to them works out at a high rate - most of the time it fails. Yet - I can only think of Roger Stauback beating out Craig Morton - as a competition that the winner went on to a HOF career (and the loser was a pretty good QB too).

They say if you have two QBs you don't really have a QB. The Broncos probably need to hand the job to Lynch and find out early if he is going to grow in the job. Lynch has the MO from his life story - and his college career to be a guy who can make plays by getting into the flow of the game and responding to it emotionally - while Trevor is the kind of a guy who will out prepare you to get better. So the only way we can find out if Lynch can play the position at a high level - is be giving him opportunities to do it. I hate to say it - I'm a Trevor Siemian fan.

I believe we are going into year 3 of control on Siemian's first contract - while we are going into year 2 of the 5 years in Lynch's contract. Lynch has to be given an opportunity to lead the team now - because if he fails the Broncos still have another year of Siemian under control. If Lynch fails - trade him - if Lynch succeeds trade Siemian.

Good post Mingo and I say give them both a good running game and let's see who grabs the reins. No Qb can truly reach or develop to his potential without it. Maybe neither is answer. Like to find out though if they get chance.

 

[fightinredantz]

I am not sure that players coming out and supporting Seimian is a good thing at this point. Both Miller and Sanders have gone on record in favor of Trevor. If Lynch is just given the job that could cause locker room problems for a first year head coach.

 

[SpringStein]

I am not sure that players coming out and supporting Seimian is a good thing at this point. Both Miller and Sanders have gone on record in favor of Trevor. If Lynch is just given the job that could cause locker room problems for a first year head coach.

I'd like to see a link to that. To me both seemed to say that they trusted Elway and they liked both the young QBs as well. It sure seemed like they weren't choosing sides from what I read.

 

[Mingo]

I'd like to see a link to that. To me both seemed to say that they trusted Elway and they liked both the young QBs as well. It sure seemed like they weren't choosing sides from what I read.

Von Miller on QB:

Title is misleading - when you read the article - Von Miller is not anti-Paxton.

 

[MileHigh64]

I'd like to see a link to that. To me both seemed to say that they trusted Elway and they liked both the young QBs as well. It sure seemed like they weren't choosing sides from what I read.

You are correct that both players gave the nod to Elway's wisdom but Von Miller was interviewed at the Super Bowl by Mike Klis and is on record as saying, although he likes both QB's "Trev is my guy".

I honestly don't think it will boil into something damaging for the Broncos. They're going to try to get Paxton into the starting role. If he succeeds, the players will get behind him. Same goes for Siemian, if he keeps the job.

 

[SpiritOf77]

In regards to Von Miller, perhaps because he is the biggest name on the team, the plan is to build Siemian's value for the inevitable trade ..

You get a Super Bowl MVP pass rusher coming out saying this QB is "his guy" ..

 

[cdumler7]

I have said from the beginning I would not be shocked if Siemian is traded at some point this off season. If Elway does think having both could cause a divided locker room yeah I think it would be smart to trade one of them and with Elway's love for Paxton we all know who would be traded.

From what I have read yeah some guys have come out in favor of Siemian at this time but wouldn't shock me if Paxton came out and surprised people in training camp and won people back to his side. I would highly recommend going and reading some interviews with Paxton's old coach from Memphis. Paxton had a very similar situation with an older more experienced QB being the team favorite. The coaches decided to start Paxton instead even though the players were not happy about the decision. He won them over with his play on the field and his attitude through a difficult time.

 

[Mingo]

@cdumler7 very good point about Paxton's college bio.

The players like whoever helps them win. Paxton was a rookie last year - probably kept him mouth shut - while Tervor did show the leadership and was a 2nd year guy.

 

[randymon]

So......Miller's endorsement of Trevor could just be a smoke screen to drive up trade value. but Elways " gushing " of Lynch is confirmed indication ( according to some ) he's the favorite and no way he could be trying to drive up his trade value and favors Trevor though. Just saying, good reporting should cover both possibilities when dealing with " hypothetical assumptions "

 

[Mingo]

So......Miller's endorsement of Trevor could just be a smoke screen to drive up trade value. but Elways " gushing " of Lynch is confirmed indication ( according to some ) he's the favorite and no way he could be trying to drive up his trade value and favors Trevor though. Just saying, good reporting should cover both possibilities when dealing with " hypothetical assumptions "

Come on Randymon - you've got to get flexible

 

[cdumler7]

So......Miller's endorsement of Trevor could just be a smoke screen to drive up trade value. but Elways " gushing " of Lynch is confirmed indication ( according to some ) he's the favorite and no way he could be trying to drive up his trade value and favors Trevor though. Just saying, good reporting should cover both possibilities when dealing with " hypothetical assumptions "

Paxton is Elway's hand picked QB for the future of this franchise. There are not many players that I would say Elway has pounded the table for harder than Paxton. Maybe Von Miller his very first draft because the kid reminded him so much of Derrick Thomas. So yes there is a difference between trading a 7th round pick that from the sound of it was actually Kubiak's pick. He came to Elway and said he wanted this kid as he saw something in his game he really liked. Elway figured a 7th round pick was fine to use on the kid if the coach wanted him that bad. Paxton like I said though is Elway's guy.

There are countless stories I can point to showing that Elway pretty much from day 1 wanted Paxton to be the starter even this past season. So unless the Broncos got a ridiculous offer from some team wanting Paxton I can't see him even being shopped by the Broncos. This isn't my biased of wanting the kid to start. This is knowing that when the most influential/powerful man in the Broncos organization wants this kid to start and be the future I just have a hard time seeing him then turn around and want to trade him.

 

[CEH]

Elway Trading Trevor is classic moneyball
The coach has no choice on who to play

 

[cdumler7]

Elway Trading Trevor is classic moneyball
The coach has no choice on who to play

My guess is when Elway was talking to Joseph, McCoy, and Musgrave before they were hired it was made pretty clear that getting Paxton ready is a very important piece of the puzzle. I don't think they are with the Broncos if they didn't believe in Paxton being a future star at the position.

 

[MileHigh64]

I haven't heard anyone suggest this but even if Paxton wins the starting job, I hope the Broncos don't trade Siemian. Every team needs a good backup and having Siemian on the bench behind Lynch would be comfortable and quite affordable. I don't buy the divided locker room theory. Trevor Siemian doesn't seem to have the kind of personality that would contribute to getting people fired up about it and the coaching staff would be tasked with ensuring it doesn't get to that point. If Lynch earns the starting role and plays well, the team will get behind him, IMO.

 

[cdumler7]

I haven't heard anyone suggest this but even if Paxton wins the starting job, I hope the Broncos don't trade Siemian. Every team needs a good backup and having Siemian on the bench behind Lynch would be comfortable and quite affordable. I don't buy the divided locker room theory. Trevor Siemian doesn't seem to have the kind of personality that would contribute to getting people fired up about it and the coaching staff would be tasked with ensuring it doesn't get to that point. If Lynch earns the starting role and plays well, the team will get behind him, IMO.

The plays well would be the key with either of them starting. Winning has a way of keeping a locker room together. WE didn't hear about a locker room divide early on in the season when the team was winning even with the Offense struggling. It was when they started losing that the defense started talking and guys like DT and Sanders started saying they were not getting the ball enough. So either QB that is picked to start if they go out and play well I don't think any player is going to care who is starting.

 

[cdumler7]

And yes I do think keeping Siemian would be nice. The guy knows the players/organization and has starting experience. Throw in how cheap he is and it is a great combo to have on the bench if he can't win the starting job. I'm more just suggesting if Elway and company start hearing there are some issues about which QB is starting I can see them deciding the easiest remedy to that issue is a trade.

 

[randymon]

Paxton is Elway's hand picked QB for the future of this franchise. There are not many players that I would say Elway has pounded the table for harder than Paxton. Maybe Von Miller his very first draft because the kid reminded him so much of Derrick Thomas. So yes there is a difference between trading a 7th round pick that from the sound of it was actually Kubiak's pick. He came to Elway and said he wanted this kid as he saw something in his game he really liked. Elway figured a 7th round pick was fine to use on the kid if the coach wanted him that bad. Paxton like I said though is Elway's guy.

There are countless stories I can point to showing that Elway pretty much from day 1 wanted Paxton to be the starter even this past season. So unless the Broncos got a ridiculous offer from some team wanting Paxton I can't see him even being shopped by the Broncos. This isn't my biased of wanting the kid to start. This is knowing that when the most influential/powerful man in the Broncos organization wants this kid to start and be the future I just have a hard time seeing him then turn around and want to trade him.

All that " slammed the table down ", and " I can give you countless stories that Elway wanted Lynch to start day one " stuff is really impressive, who's to say he doesn't NOW have doubts ? I know you have sources in high places but to come on hear and make statements like you and John are having lunch twice a week discussing Lynch future his comical and heavy ego laden. I'm very consistent saying either Qb can be future with run game and either one ( since I don't believe everything I read as scripture ) could prove the opposite, but......Since I don't have any clue what is really going through John's mind as I type......I won't even consider puffing my chest out and make comments I don't have any viable proof as to its accuracy. Unless of course you are having lunch with John and I stand corrected you lucky dog !!

 

[cdumler7]

All that " slammed the table down ", and " I can give you countless stories that Elway wanted Lynch to start day one " stuff is really impressive, who's to say he doesn't NOW have doubts ? I know you have sources in high places but to come on hear and make statements like you and John are having lunch twice a week discussing Lynch future his comical and heavy ego laden. I'm very consistent saying either Qb can be future with run game and either one ( since I don't believe everything I read as scripture ) could prove the opposite, but......Since I don't have any clue what is really going through John's mind as I type......I won't even consider puffing my chest out and make comments I don't have any viable proof as to its accuracy. Unless of course you are having lunch with John and I stand corrected you lucky dog !!

Well John and I talk quite often...just kidding. You are right I don't know with a shadow of doubt that Elway is as high on Lynch as I say. I do trust the people I talk to that actually do some of them sit down with John every once in a while for a meal. Doesn't mean he hasn't changed his mind after a year of actually watching Lynch in practice so we will just have to see. I'm sorry if what I said came across as heavy in ego. That is not what I meant for it to come across as. I meant it more as I do know Paxton was Elway's guy that he really pounded the table for and from everything I have read and heard have not seen him that excited by a prospect since Von Miller. I'm sure other guys have excited Elway and maybe they didn't work out so who knows.

And you can choose whether to believe my sources or not. I really don't care. I'm just bringing what I hear to the board and you can take it however you want. I don't mean it in some kind of boastful sense at all just thought this was a place we could all share things that we have read and heard.

 

[Mingo]

LOL - and this wasn't the great QB debate I was referring to in the subject line.

I don't think Elway is all that sentimental when it comes to football value and how a guy fits into the team. I think it is fun to watch the Lynch and Siemian competition. However, when McCoy builds this offense to fit the players - it seems to me that Lynch and Siemian profile to very different offenses. I'll take Lynch out of the shot gun - last season his shotgun snaps gave him a 90 QB rating - it was that Kubes insisted Lynch learn how to QB from under Center as a primary formation. It is because Siemian and Lynch fit different kinds of offenses - that one should be anointed and one put on the shelf or shipped out.