Grap signed

[Manster7588]

So in essence, no matter the reasons, a deal was NOT possible. I agree that it's origination began with Allen and Snyder and from that perspective it was all 100% on the FO. Let's remember that this whole thing has been going on since the end of the 2015 season, Kirk didn't have to stay and could have made it known that he wouldn't play on a tag either. As crazy as that sounds, the money now totaling 44 million, was an issue in his staying for as long as he did. The other side of that coin was, as you've stated, their unwillingness to part with him sooner.

If the FO wanted him, then yes it was 100% possible, since it's obvious they didn't want him they should have traded him prior to his contract expiring.
Think about it, why Franchise a guy you don't want?

Again the Skins FO is 100% to blame here.

 

[Stymietee]

If the FO wanted him, then yes it was 100% possible, since it's obvious they didn't want him they should have traded him prior to his contract expiring.
Think about it, why Franchise a guy you don't want?

Again the Skins FO is 100% to blame here.

OK, but for future references, take note that I don't accept this rewrite of history. First tag was a prove yourself move, the second was a do it again move. I'm not going with they didn't want him, they just were not convinced that he was "THAT GUY" Turns out for them he wasn't and isn't despite the protestations of a lot of folks and the ultimate pricing themselves out of what they thought his worth to be. I'll bet that sometime, in the near future, with QB salaries escalating as they are, this whole tagging process will come under review.

 

[Stymietee]

BTW; I just thought of something that seems to be a part of this ongoing circular conversation. As has been done before, someone inevitably will ask, what more did they need to see to convince themselves that Kirk WAS that guy. My answer...I don't know, there could have been any number of factors, including, but certainly not limited to, as @Shark likes to write, "he wasn't Griffin." It's easy to factor and list other reasons, unrelated to that.

 

[Manster7588]

OK, but for future references, take note that I don't accept this rewrite of history. First tag was a prove yourself move, the second was a do it again move. I'm not going with they didn't want him, they just were not convinced that he was "THAT GUY" Turns out for them he wasn't and isn't despite the protestations of a lot of folks and the ultimate pricing themselves out of what they thought his worth to be. I'll bet that sometime, in the near future, with QB salaries escalating as they are, this whole tagging process will come under review.

Who's rewriting history? Did Cousins first ask for 22M and did Allen low ball him? There's your history.

 

[Manster7588]

BTW; I just thought of something that seems to be a part of this ongoing circular conversation. As has been done before, someone inevitably will ask, what more did they need to see to convince themselves that Kirk WAS that guy. My answer...I don't know, there could have been any number of factors, including, but certainly not limited to, as @Shark likes to write, "he wasn't Griffin." It's easy to factor and list other reasons, unrelated to that.

Not sure, but if I had to hazard a guess, I think the FO is confusing Elite with Franchise, much like some of the fan base.

 

[Stymietee]

Who's rewriting history? Did Cousins first ask for 22M and did Allen low ball him? There's your history.

Use of the term "want" as used in "not wanting him," is rewriting history. A lowball offer is still an offer. The difference is that they "wanted" him at that price.

 

[Manster7588]

Use of the term "want" as used in "not wanting him," is rewriting history. A lowball offer is still an offer. The difference is that they "wanted" him at that price.

An offer way below market value. If you have a strong belief you could make $30 an hour at a company competitor would you work at your current job for say around $25 an hour?

 

[Stymietee]

An offer way below market value. If you have a strong belief you could make $30 an hour at a company competitor would you work at your current job for say around $25 an hour?

Sure I would, if my starting salary was $10 per hour and my current employer, in my current home, paid me $25 an hour while we tried to reach agreement on $30 or better. Context matters. BTW: knowing this, why did he choose to stay?

 

[deanpet21]

I don't mean coming out of college. I mean that the Niner FO liked Grop, the 3rd year Patriot, more than the Qbs entering the draft in 2017, particularly when Grop would only cost a 2nd and the rookies would cost a very high 1st (though we didn't do much with our first anyway, LOL).

But the difference in money is insane. Plus at the time they didn't know Grap would be available for a 2nd rounder. If the 49ers don't make the playofs in the first three years the rookie would have been the better option.

 

[deanpet21]

You posted it because it agrees with your line of thinking.

What Smith doesnt bring is everything you guys swore we needed above Kirk. That being the ability to carry the team.

It will be interesting to see how smart and efficient Smith is playing with a defense that has a tendency to let the game get out of hand. Its rather telling that 65-70% of Cousins INTs are thrown in games where we are trying to come from behind.

My thought is, if the defense doesnt improve dramatically, by mid season the party line will be.. we arent losing because of Smith, he needs more help.

I posted it b/c you think anyone who agrees with the trade is nuts.

 

[deanpet21]

If Allen didn't screw this up you'd have just as good or better QB for less. Fair Statement?

sure. If Allen signed him after the 2015 season. We would of have been ok. I just give Allen credit for not giving into KC huge demands after the 2016 and 2017 seasons.

 

[Manster7588]

Sure I would, if my starting salary was $10 per hour and my current employer, in my current home, paid me $25 an hour while we tried to reach agreement on $30 or better. Context matters. BTW: knowing this, why did he choose to stay?

In other words you'd have done the same thing Kirk did. As for why did he stay? Maybe against many beliefs he did want to stay once upon a time.

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

According to shark it's all Bruce fault but if skins signed Kirk and win he would never say good job Bruce we did the best we could Since Kirk told us to fuck off and get his Green in Alex I trust.. i think its funny and bullshit when someone in here says we are all most there and bash allen.. well we was almost there with Allen

 

[Sharkinva]

I posted it b/c you think anyone who agrees with the trade is nuts.

NO I think any one that agrees with the trade is basically trying to justify or congratulate Bruce for saving the sofa when he is the one who set the house on fire to begin with.

It was a bad trade, made necessary by Bruce and Dans ego and in ability to admit they were wrong back in 2012, and again in 2015.

 

[skinsdad62]

If Allen didn't screw this up you'd have just as good or better QB for less. Fair Statement?

this is a typical move the goal post move by the puppet dean . he is saying just as good or better NOW when he was saying for 3 years BETTER is the standard

why did we give up a draft pick and a starting slot to tread water DEAN and the puppets ? that is the question manster they dont have a real answer for other then bruce told them so

as for me i would spend the money and make a move forward then save way less then half to tread water . another lie dean and the puppets tell

 

[skinsdad62]

OK, but for future references, take note that I don't accept this rewrite of history. First tag was a prove yourself move, the second was a do it again move. I'm not going with they didn't want him, they just were not convinced that he was "THAT GUY" Turns out for them he wasn't and isn't despite the protestations of a lot of folks and the ultimate pricing themselves out of what they thought his worth to be. I'll bet that sometime, in the near future, with QB salaries escalating as they are, this whole tagging process will come under review.

how many times does he have to "prove it " he clearly did and the FO got buyers remorse its their fault 100%

 

[skinsdad62]

sure. If Allen signed him after the 2015 season. We would of have been ok. I just give Allen credit for not giving into KC huge demands after the 2016 and 2017 seasons.

neither was huge DEAN , the only offer was the low ball joke offer . your speculation isnt fact you franchise a guy then that is the standard . why would anyone take less ?

 

[skinsdad62]

According to shark it's all Bruce fault but if skins signed Kirk and win he would never say good job Bruce we did the best we could Since Kirk told us to fuck off and get his Green in Alex I trust.. i think its funny and bullshit when someone in here says we are all most there and bash allen.. well we was almost there with Allen

well that is because you are a puppet . allens win % is 396 and you think that means he cant be bashed . laughable .

 

[Sharkinva]

this is a typical move the goal post move by the puppet dean . he is saying just as good or better NOW when he was saying for 3 years BETTER is the standard

why did we give up a draft pick and a starting slot to tread water DEAN and the puppets ? that is the question manster they dont have a real answer for other then bruce told them so

as for me i would spend the money and make a move forward then save way less then half to tread water . another lie dean and the puppets tell

I think this is going to come down to what Smiths cap number comes out to be and how the contract was structured.

Now I will admit, if they managed to get Smith to lower his base salary in year one, and he only counts that $17M then it could be as much as $10-12M less than what I expect Kirk would have come in at in DC.. possibly more if we had simply tagged Kirk. But this also means we backloaded Smiths deal to make it look better in year one and prime us to spend heavily in Free Agency.


But make no mistake, Bruce should not get Kudos for managing to buy his way out of a bad situation that he created.

 

[skinsdad62]

I think this is going to come down to what Smiths cap number comes out to be and how the contract was structured.

Now I will admit, if they managed to get Smith to lower his base salary in year one, and he only counts that $17M then it could be as much as $10-12M less than what I expect Kirk would have come in at in DC.. possibly more if we had simply tagged Kirk. But this also means we backloaded Smiths deal to make it look better in year one and prime us to spend heavily in Free Agency.


But make no mistake, Bruce should not get Kudos for managing to buy his way out of a bad situation that he created.

the fact is they are moving the goal posts from better to "just as good " which was against the original talking points the spewed