Series Thread: Golden State Warriors vs. Cleveland Cavaliers NBA Finals Thread

[trojanfan12]

I don't think anyone is giving anyone a pass or holding certain things against the others.
I'm also never just going to just use ring count or Finals record as the only measurements for greatness.

How many better QBs are there than Dan Marino?

YOU might not. But in this thread alone, 2 or 3 posters have said that Lebron should get a pass for the first Cavs finals team and this one. I have never heard it even suggested that Magic, Kareem, Bird or Kobe should get a pass for any of their finals losses.

Not many are greater than Marino, but he also gets graded down and winds up lower on the list than he probably should be because he has no rings.

 

[DJ Fieri]

Well, maybe a little bit.....because some of the cool people didn't transition over here.

 

[bksballer89]

I don't miss FN at all either. Lot of way cooler features and the people are a lot better as well. Looking back.....FN was troll central.

Only thing I miss about CBS is the team boards of the Yankees and Saints because those boards are dead here

 

[trojanfan12]

He deserves a pass for 2007 and 2015. Honestly the only finals he should get criticized for is Dallas. Even last year against the Spurs, he did his job but the rest of our roster did not and our defense was a joke

I don't see you suggesting anyone else gets a pass.

 

[DJ Fieri]

Only thing I miss about CBS is the team boards of the Yankees and Saints because those boards are dead here

Wow. I would think the Yankees would have a good showing on here.

I know my Lakers do.

 

[bksballer89]

YOU might not. But in this thread alone, 2 or 3 posters have said that Lebron should get a pass for the first Cavs finals team and this one. I have never heard it even suggested that Magic, Kareem, Bird or Kobe should get a pass for any of their finals losses.

Not many are greater than Marino, but he also gets graded down and winds up lower on the list than he probably should be because he has no rings.

Pass may be the wrong word. The point I was trying to make is that when LBJ career is over and his finals record is brought up. Nobody will criticize him for losing to the Spurs in 07 or Warriors this year (if they lose) due to the circumstances

 

[trojanfan12]

1st rd means crap, its when the Big lights are on you. Also please don't compare the East back then to the East of now. Please just stop before you embarrass yourself. Also throw in MJ stayed with the same team and had to build the team. He didn't leave his team, Go to a super power team, and then come back after reloading because of losing. Whats great about MJ is he wins 3 in a row and then takes 1 1/2 years off(baseball) and then wins 3 in a row again just to show everyone how good he is. If he never left Bulls would of won 8 in a row.

I disagree. As we saw with the Heat and with the only 2 other teams since 1980 where a team has made 4 straight finals, getting to 4 in a row is hard enough and takes enough of a toll on its own. Actually winning 4 in a row, let alone 8 in a row, is darn near impossible. The Bulls may have gotten 4 in row, maybe even 5 (doubtful), but 8?!? Sorry, the mileage would have been too much.

 

[trojanfan12]

I said it helps. Is it everything no but it does help. Dirk I want to say yes. its close. U can go either way. People forget how good Dirk was. I was not a big Malone fan. Malone was really good but he was missing something.

What bks fails to understand is that when you are talking about all time greats, their resume's tend to be so closely matched in all respects, that they require a "tiebreaker" (for lack of a better term) and they themselves, use rings as the tiebreaker.

bks doesn't like that Lebron falls far short in that tiebreaker and thinks the criteria should change just to help Lebron.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

YOU might not. But in this thread alone, 2 or 3 posters have said that Lebron should get a pass for the first Cavs finals team and this one. I have never heard it even suggested that Magic, Kareem, Bird or Kobe should get a pass for any of their finals losses.

Not many are greater than Marino, but he also gets graded down and winds up lower on the list than he probably should be because he has no rings.

I clearly give James a free pass for '07.
That team wasn't near as talented as the Spurs and James wasn't then considered ( I don't think), the best player in the league.

I don't give him a total free pass for any loss after that because he had been elevated to best in the world.

That being said, he's only human and when your playing a team for the championship, they are also there for a reason.

His one major blemish is the Mavs loss, BUT he reinvented his game after it.


As far as the other players you named, I personally haven't seen or been part of discussions where the losses have been held against them, but if you say you have seen or been part of those discussions then I believe and agree with you.

 

[trojanfan12]

Pass may be the wrong word. The point I was trying to make is that when LBJ career is over and his finals record is brought up. Nobody will criticize him for losing to the Spurs in 07 or Warriors this year (if they lose) due to the circumstances

It doesn't matter. Lebron isn't the only all timer who has had to deal with injuries and other adversity in the finals. But he's the only one that you want to give special consideration for.

Hell, Magic himself was injured and didn't play in the 2nd finals vs. the Pistons. Yet, his finals record still stands at 5-4.

They get to the finals with who they get there with and they live with the results. That's how it works.

 

[bksballer89]

It doesn't matter. Lebron isn't the only all timer who has had to deal with injuries and other adversity in the finals. But he's the only one that you want to give special consideration for.

Hell, Magic himself was injured and didn't play in the 2nd finals vs. the Pistons. Yet, his finals record still stands at 5-4.

They get to the finals with who they get there with and they live with the results. That's how it works.

What other HOF player did not have their 2nd and 3rd best players for the entire finals? Just curious

 

[trojanfan12]

I clearly give James a free pass for '07.
That team wasn't near as talented as the Spurs and James wasn't then considered ( I don't think), the best player in the league.

I don't give him a total free pass for any loss after that because he had been elevated to best in the world.

That being said, he's only human and when your playing a team for the championship, they are also there for a reason.

His one major blemish is the Mavs loss, BUT he reinvented his game after it.


As far as the other players you named, I personally haven't seen or been part of discussions where the losses have been held against them, but if you say you have seen or been part of those discussions then I believe and agree with you.

Doesn't matter. He got there and he lost. No one else gets a pass. Neither does Lebron. All-time greats don't need one and would never want one.

 

[trojanfan12]

What other HOF player did not have their 2nd and 3rd best players for the entire finals? Just curious

I guess you missed where Magic himself didn't get to play in a finals that the Lakers lost. Both he and Byron were out in that series. So, the Lakers were without their #1 and #3 players.

In the '82-'83 finals he was without James Worthy and 1 other player (I forget who).

You get to the finals and what happens, happens. You live with it. No passes. No participation trophies.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

[QUOTE="TurnUpTheHeat, post: 6760916, member: 4037"]I clearly give James a free pass for '07.
That team wasn't near as talented as the Spurs and James wasn't then considered ( I don't think), the best player in the league.

I don't give him a total free pass for any loss after that because he had been elevated to best in the world.

That being said, he's only human and when your playing a team for the championship, they are also there for a reason.

His one major blemish is the Mavs loss, BUT he reinvented his game after it.


As far as the other players you named, I personally haven't seen or been part of discussions where the losses have been held against them, but if you say you have seen or been part of those discussions then I believe and agree with you.

Doesn't matter. He got there and he lost. No one else gets a pass. Neither does Lebron. All-time grteats don't need one and would never want one.[/QUOTE]





So he'd be viewed by you as a better player if he had not had that amazing series to knock out the Pistons?

Maybe pass isn't the correct word, but nobody, not even the most optimistic Cavs fan felt they were the better team or should have beat the Spurs.

I think HOPE was about all they had.

 

[bksballer89]

I guess you missed where Magic himself didn't get to play in a finals that the Lakers lost. Both he and Byron were out in that series. So, the Lakers were without their #1 and #3 players.

In the '82-'83 finals he was without James Worthy and 1 other player (I forget who).

You get to the finals and what happens, happens. You live with it. No passes. No participation trophies.

Point is with the way Lebron has played through the first 4 games, even if they do lose he should not be blamed for this as he did his part. As turnup said the only finals which LBJ screwed up in was the Dallas finals.

 

[bksballer89]

Lebron would have been better off losing to Detroit in 07 and losing to the Bulls this year instead of getting to the finals and losing.

Much better to lose in the rounds prior to the finals instead of having a 2-4 record in the finals I guess

 

[Pattersonca65]

Been away from this thread for awhile. 6,895 posts. This thread has been active

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

What other HOF player did not have their 2nd and 3rd best players for the entire finals? Just curious

I think the Cavs suffer more from lack of depth then lack of talent BECAUSE James is so ball dominant that the others ( Love, Kyrie) often are turned into role players anyway.

Kyrie/Love prob could buy James an extra 5-8 minutes of rest per game, but that's tough shit for him because he decided to bank on guys with no history of staying healthy.

 

[Flauge]

Doesn't matter. He got there and he lost. No one else gets a pass. Neither does Lebron. All-time greats don't need one and would never want one.

I give guys a pass. Magic losing to the MJ bulls... pass. It was a damn miracle Magic got the team that far. I also think Kobe (and Shaq) losing to the Pistons is a bigger negative than LeBron losing to the Spurs in 2007. That series Kobe shot LA out of a finals by himself. Largely ignored his biggest mismatch on the court Shaq V Wallace. I parse things a little further down than most though. Don't get me wrong... Kobe is a top 10 player in my book for sure. Probably around 6-8 or so. I view the final 3 finals of Kobes career far more impressive than the first 4. Although 3-1 > 2-1

 

[bksballer89]

Been away from this thread for awhile. 6,895 posts. This thread has been active

understatement of the night