Gold Gloves .. can it be quantified?

[SFAnthem]

With all the new methods of measuring defensive abilities, should awards like gold gloves be changed from a vote to a statistical category?

WAR, etc etc, are all beyond me but it seems like that is the new way folks are judging players.

Would be fun to see a defensive avg. league leaders board.

 

[sfsportsfan]

having the managers vote is a severely flawed method, but i like having the human element to it. maybe give the vote to the sports writers?

 

[TidrowThePitchingMaster]

I've given up on the award. There's no way Derek Jeter should have won. None whatsoever. A disgrace.

 

[SFGRTB]

I've given up on the award. There's no way Derek Jeter should have won. None whatsoever. A disgrace.

When they were announcing it on MLB Network, they mentioned Cano and Teixeria on the right side of the infield and they said "and still in the AL East", I insantly thought that Jeter won it and I was thinking WTF, but then they mentioned Longoria instead, so I calmed down. Then they actually announced Jeter and I threw a pillow at the TV.

In no way does he deserve it, but like most other awards these days, it's a popularity contest.

 

[SFAnthem]

but would it take too much away from the tradition of the season end announcements?

I mean baseball is a sport filled with stats - would "creating" a defensive stat that is more concrete than fielding pct. be such a bad thing?

I like opening up a newspaper/webpage and track who's leading the league in ... whatever. Highlighting defensive efforts will showcase more players, too. Even as a kid I always enjoyed when they showed the league leaders in stats in between innings..we cheered when a Giant was on there. Defensive guys get no love?

Imagine a Giants player (Torres, for example) trailing the league lead in defensive stat (ad space here) and then he makes a great play in the field that lets him take over the lead in said defensive stat.

I haven't worked out the details so don't skewer the idea too much but it should carry more weight than the let's vote for the biggest name thing they have going on now.

 

[tzill]

I've found UZR to be pretty helpful in evaluating players. Ramirez and Pennington were far and away the AL league leaders at SS, with Jeter coming in a distant seventh.

GGs are a crock of shit.

 

[tzill]

All UZR NL team:
C -- Yadier Molina
1b -- Ike Davis
2b -- Chase Utley
SS -- Brendan Ryan
3b -- Chase Headley
OF -- Andres Torres, Jay Bruce, Michael Bourn

All of this jibes with my gut.

 

[filosofy29]

Apparently we vote for Golden Gloves the same way we do our political leaders.

At the very least, I hope Derek Jeter uses this gold glove as more leverage to get every last penny/year he can out of the Yankees.

The thing that saddens me is that 25 years from now when kids and even adults in their 30's will start talking about greatest SS of all time and reference not only his offensive accolades (which are well deserved), but then note how great of defense he played.....

 

[Heathbar012]

I like the UZR idea. If they combined that with votes from managers and sportswriters, I think that would keep everyone happy. Then us fans could still harp on the managers and "analysts" for fucking it up. Nice to have a break from yelling at computers like in college football... and at work.

 

[msgkings322]

Apparently we vote for Golden Gloves the same way we do our political leaders.

At the very least, I hope Derek Jeter uses this gold glove as more leverage to get every last penny/year he can out of the Yankees.

The thing that saddens me is that 25 years from now when kids and even adults in their 30's will start talking about greatest SS of all time and reference not only his offensive accolades (which are well deserved), but then note how great of defense he played.....

He didn't deserve the award one little bit but in fairness Jeter had only 6 errors (Ramirez 20) and the league leading fielding pct at .989 (both career bests for him).

I completely understand how less errors and high f pct doesn't = best defense, because the guys with speed and range get charged with errors on plays Jeter can't even begin to try. But it's not like he sucked at the position, and when Jeter is discussed down the road I think his defense is fair to praise.

As much as I hate the Yankees, Jeter has always been among my favorite players and you guys probably would agree on that. Mo Rivera too.

Anyway, he didn't deserve the award but GGs are usually a joke. I'm worried what this portends for Posey v Heyward.

 

[SFAnthem]

exactly. People complain about the bastardization of baseball and its hallowed records but when the merit of awards like all star appearances and gold gloves suffer due to baseball's constant need to self promotionalize its stars, those records lose all meaning.

It may seem weird at first, but im all for defense to get some billing since it's such an important part of the game.

I know..defense isn't sexy right now. But like pitching, it should be recognized. Who knows..baseball 2011 - Chicks dig the leather?

 

[Heathbar012]

exactly. People complain about the bastardization of baseball and its hallowed records but when the merit of awards like all star appearances and gold gloves suffer due to baseball's constant need to self promotionalize its stars, those records lose all meaning.

It may seem weird at first, but im all for defense to get some billing since it's such an important part of the game.

I know..defense isn't sexy right now. But like pitching, it should be recognized. Who knows..baseball 2011 - Chicks dig the leather?

Awesome. Marketing degree?

 

[nateistheshi]

While we're on the subject of gold gloves. Here are 6 NL outfielders: A, B, C, D, E, and F and all 3 GG winners this year are included along with 3 other guys that lost the beauty pageant. I put their rank among qualified NL outfielders in parentheses (although I didn't rank F because he was unqualified.) See if you can guess who is who without cheating.

UZR UZR/150 Field% E

A 17.6 (3rd) 18.5 (3rd) .992 (9th) 3 (9th)

B 2.6 (16th) 3.3 (14th) .995 (6th) 2 (5th)

C 20.2 (2nd) 19.0 (2nd) .992 (9th) 3 (9th)

D -2.7 (20th) -3.8 (20th) .996 (2nd) 1 (1st)

E 21.2 (1st) 24.8 (1st) .997 (1st) 1 (1st)

F 4.9 10.7 .984 2

Choice F has 632 Innings in the OF this season so it's not like it's an incredibly small sample size.

 

[filosofy29]

National League Gold Glovers:

Scott Rolen wins Gold Glove in third different uniform - ESPN

 

[nateistheshi]

To be honest I'm shocked that nobody on the Yankees won a gold glove in the NL as well.

 

[filosofy29]

To be honest I'm shocked that nobody on the Yankees won a gold glove in the NL as well.

BAM!!! Post.....of.....the.....day!!!

 

[filosofy29]

While we're on the subject of gold gloves. Here are 6 NL outfielders: A, B, C, D, E, and F and all 3 GG winners this year are included along with 3 other guys that lost the beauty pageant. I put their rank among qualified NL outfielders in parentheses (although I didn't rank F because he was unqualified.) See if you can guess who is who without cheating.

UZR UZR/150 Field% E

A 17.6 (3rd) 18.5 (3rd) .992 (9th) 3 (9th)

B 2.6 (16th) 3.3 (14th) .995 (6th) 2 (5th)

C 20.2 (2nd) 19.0 (2nd) .992 (9th) 3 (9th)

D -2.7 (20th) -3.8 (20th) .996 (2nd) 1 (1st)

E 21.2 (1st) 24.8 (1st) .997 (1st) 1 (1st)

F 4.9 10.7 .984 2

Choice F has 632 Innings in the OF this season so it's not like it's an incredibly small sample size.

Not sure, but is one of A, C, or E Andres Torres?

 

[calsnowskier]

exactly. People complain about the bastardization of baseball and its hallowed records but when the merit of awards like all star appearances and gold gloves suffer due to baseball's constant need to self promotionalize its stars, those records lose all meaning.

It may seem weird at first, but im all for defense to get some billing since it's such an important part of the game.

I know..defense isn't sexy right now. But like pitching, it should be recognized. Who knows..baseball 2011 - Chicks dig the leather?

And to think all this time the Village People had it all wrong...

 

[calsnowskier]

While we're on the subject of gold gloves. Here are 6 NL outfielders: A, B, C, D, E, and F and all 3 GG winners this year are included along with 3 other guys that lost the beauty pageant. I put their rank among qualified NL outfielders in parentheses (although I didn't rank F because he was unqualified.) See if you can guess who is who without cheating.

UZR UZR/150 Field% E

A 17.6 (3rd) 18.5 (3rd) .992 (9th) 3 (9th)

B 2.6 (16th) 3.3 (14th) .995 (6th) 2 (5th)

C 20.2 (2nd) 19.0 (2nd) .992 (9th) 3 (9th)

D -2.7 (20th) -3.8 (20th) .996 (2nd) 1 (1st)

E 21.2 (1st) 24.8 (1st) .997 (1st) 1 (1st)

F 4.9 10.7 .984 2

Choice F has 632 Innings in the OF this season so it's not like it's an incredibly small sample size.

I am guessing B, D, and F are the winners?

 

[TidrowThePitchingMaster]

Torres got robbed as well. Bourn deserved his.

Cargo had a UZR of -2.7. Victorino's UZR was +2.6. Torres was at +21.2.

I understand that the baseball coaches don't look at sabermetric fielding, but now I'm starting to think they don't watch the games either. Cargo? Seriously? Great offensive year leads to a gold glove? Pathetic.



Btw, here is Jeter at his best defensively.