Game Thread- Patriots at Broncos

[PatsFan2003]

Last year when the Patriots fell short there was the usual taking stock of what went wrong. Getting Scarnacia back was huge of course. He is a fricking great coach. Marcus Cannon went from loser scrub to a first stringer with him. The Oline is healthier this year too. We've gotten additional decent WR's, focused more on an actual running etc

I'm sure Denver will do the same. Elway is a pretty good GM. Things don't always work out the same each year.

Although I do like the fighting going on between the Denver defense and the offense. It's always fun to have an impact on the other team!

 

[cdumler7]

Last year when the Patriots fell short there was the usual taking stock of what went wrong. Getting Scarnacia back was huge of course. He is a fricking great coach. Marcus Cannon went from loser scrub to a first stringer with him. The Oline is healthier this year too. We've gotten additional decent WR's, focused more on an actual running etc

I'm sure Denver will do the same. Elway is a pretty good GM. Things don't always work out the same each year.

Although I do like the fighting going on between the Denver defense and the offense. It's always fun to have an impact on the other team!

Well there are rumors circulating that Kubiak could retire after this season. If that happens then yeah there could be some huge changes among the coaches. At least for me my #1 coach I would love to see walk through the door is Kyle Shanahan. That Atlanta offense has really taken off with him this year and a bit part of that being the OL opening things up in the run game. They run a similar scheme to the Broncos but from what I understand a much more updated version. Shanahan has realized that the old ZBS just doesn't function well with the new rules so has gone to a more gap style blocking scheme especially on the back side of the play to help keep opening up the cut back lanes.

Honestly looking forward to see what Elway all does this off season. Very pivotal time for this organization of either having one down year and bouncing back to among the elite or falling back to the crowd even more.

 

[Draft Crazy]

See how Kubes health is after the season. We know he isn't getting fired.

 

[cdumler7]

See how Kubes health is after the season. We know he isn't getting fired.

And honestly I would say Kubiak has earned a bit of a leash considering he did just lead us to a Super Bowl victory less than a year ago. One average season doesn't destroy that. It does seem though the rumor of him retiring is getting louder and louder with each passing week. I'm now hearing it from quite a few media folks close with the team.

 

[Draft Crazy]

Yes. That is for sure. Which is why he won't be fired.

 

[cdumler7]

Yes. That is for sure. Which is why he won't be fired.

I do like him as our HC. I think he is a good players' coach but I would say he needs to find himself a true OC. From what I understand part of the frustration on offense is the fact that they do not know who is calling the plays. Kubiak, Dennison, and Knapp have all called plays at different times this year. I would say they need one voice to really unite them. I heard a stat the other day that the top-10 offenses in the NFL all have the OC being the one calling the plays on game day. I just think as a HC your focus needs to be on the situational football decisions during game day and making sure the entire team is on the same page throughout the week. That is honestly plenty to take on for one person. When you start adding in him having to work on the offensive game plan and then worrying about calling plays it takes him away from other responsibilities.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

I agree about the offense. Unfortunately this offseason is a terrible time to need o-line. I think the defense can change a little more quickly.

Yep and everyone is looking for Oline without any for sure starters. Teams will need to get lucky and find a diamond in the rough. FA is going to be a premium. G/T even C will be getting paid.

 

[Rex Racer]

Complain about broncos fans being overly sensitive on the general board and then come here with BigKen to cry foul. Seems like a pot and kettle thing.

I wasn't crying, those were tears of joy

 

[Draft Crazy]

Good we can get our second back for Sambrailo.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Is there really a lot of work though?

On offense I would say a lot will depend on the growth of Siemian/Lynch. If either of those guys take a big step forward a great QB can cover up a lot of issues on the offense. I mean look at Brady last year with that Patriots offense. Terrible OL and no run game yet they were still a very good offense. So that is the part going into next season that Bronco fans are not going to fully be able to know for our team.

On the OL again look at you guys. Get a decent OL coach and boom many of the same players from last year all of a sudden look pretty darn good. I would bet there will be some decent turnover on the Offensive side of the ball when it comes to the coaches.

Beyond that CJ Anderson will be back fully healthy. The offense was actually functional before he went down with injury. Still need some RB depth but we do have a starter quality RB in Anderson. We have a great FB in Janovich that will be back from injury as well.

WE have 2 High quality WR's signed up long-term. So just need to build up the depth behind them. At the TE position Derby looks like a keeper and Green is signed but obviously again more depth needed. Loaded TE draft so my guess is they turn to the draft to fill in that spot.

So that leaves us with the OL. Something to remember is that 3 of the 5 starters had very little starting experience before this season started. There should be an expected level of growth in some of the younger players. My guess is this is where the Broncos will contribute FA money and draft capital into helping fix some of the issues. Again the Pats are a great example of how quickly a team can turn around the OL with the right people in place.

On defense the entire secondary is returning once again. 3 of our top-4 pass rushers will be back as well. We still have Derek Wolfe signed long-term as well as Brandon Marshall. We also have some youth at the linebacker position so just have to wait and see how they develop but some of them have shown great promise in the few snaps they have taken. Mostly though for the defense it will be about the NT and other DE position. Gotsis was taken in the 2nd round so some of this will depend on his growth for year 2 at one of the DE positions. This is also a very good draft for the 3-4 DE position.

So decent draft, couple of good coaching changes, a couple of nice FA signings, and maybe most importantly the growth of our 2 young QB's. I mean this year every single game the Broncos have been in it pretty much up until the end of the game. Not like we have been that far off from beating some great teams this year. Heck we are not even out of the playoffs yet with 2 games left standing a decent chance of making the playoffs. Do you guys really want to face the Broncos in the 2nd round or would you rather play the Dolphins?

Man you write too much.
I don't care what kind of step either Siemenan or Lynch take forward they won't produce at the level of a Brady or Manning next year.

OL you'll need to find a diamond in the rough, over pay for FAs or find a Scar. I'm betting you over pay?

Anderson is a crap shoot? Maybe he'll be effective running behind that line? Luckily there are some nice prospects in the draft.

I've already addressed Denver has a quality D just need to improve on the run D.

So to recap including what you added at the end. Denver needs some coaches. Easier said than done. They need a decent draft. They need 2 young QBs to grow. They need Oline help. They could use an RB. Plus stock up for the future.

No disrespect but that's a lot bro. I'm not saying they're the next Browns at all. They will be competitive but need all those areas addressed to be top tier is all.

 

[Malibu]

Man you write too much.
I don't care what kind of step either Siemenan or Lynch take forward they won't produce at the level of a Brady or Manning next year.

OL you'll need to find a diamond in the rough, over pay for FAs or find a Scar. I'm betting you over pay?

Anderson is a crap shoot? Maybe he'll be effective running behind that line? Luckily there are some nice prospects in the draft.

I've already addressed Denver has a quality D just need to improve on the run D.

So to recap including what you added at the end. Denver needs some coaches. Easier said than done. They need a decent draft. They need 2 young QBs to grow. They need Oline help. They could use an RB. Plus stock up for the future.

No disrespect but that's a lot bro. I'm not saying they're the next Browns at all. They will be competitive but need all those areas addressed to be top tier is all.

Not that I want to agree with a Patriots fan but you are correct. CD is the ultimate homer that thinks the Broncos can do no wrong and all it takes is one guy or one coach. The o line except Paridis is a joke. I told CD numerous time that Stephenson and Okung weren't going to help and he always came up with the injury excuse or need more time to gell. Well there is no time left. The run defense is a problem as well. Losing Jackson hurt more then others will agree. Hell CD still thinks Montee Ball is good. No matter how many times Ive told him that I have seen Ball in every one of his college games living in Wisconsin. I knew the guy was trouble as well but CD would have none of that. CD means well but isn't ever one to admit he was wrong and is the ultimate homer. He is good for information about the Broncos and is a great asset to this Broncos message board but he needs to take off the orange and blue glasses every now and then. I'm no Manning or Brady fan but if CD thinks that T.S. or Lynch will ever produce at there levels then I can't even defend that. Peace.

 

[Malibu]

Kubiak does deserve to be the Broncos coach. People that want him fired are ignorant and I hear that around here near Green Bay with Mike McCarthy. Stupidity. Peace.

 

[Draft Crazy]

In fairness. The NFL isn't exactly full of great teams... I think in years past nobody in the NFL this year really lights my eyes up. Seems like a growing tend though.

There are so many REALLY bad teams in the NFL anymore...

I think our future is fine... Just gotta fill some major glaring needs, don't need to "KILL" at everything in one offseason to get back into it. Not many balanced teams in the NFL right now.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Not that I want to agree with a Patriots fan but you are correct. CD is the ultimate homer that thinks the Broncos can do no wrong and all it takes is one guy or one coach. The o line except Paridis is a joke. I told CD numerous time that Stephenson and Okung weren't going to help and he always came up with the injury excuse or need more time to gell. Well there is no time left. The run defense is a problem as well. Losing Jackson hurt more then others will agree. Hell CD still thinks Montee Ball is good. No matter how many times Ive told him that I have seen Ball in every one of his college games living in Wisconsin. I knew the guy was trouble as well but CD would have none of that. CD means well but isn't ever one to admit he was wrong and is the ultimate homer. He is good for information about the Broncos and is a great asset to this Broncos message board but he needs to take off the orange and blue glasses every now and then. I'm no Manning or Brady fan but if CD thinks that T.S. or Lynch will ever produce at there levels then I can't even defend that. Peace.

I've gone back and forth with CD. He's a homer but doesn't mean any harm. He's knowledgable and passionate. He's not a dick like a lot of other fans (not necessarily Denver) even though he thinks he's right 100% of the time. I enjoy sparring with him.

 

[Malibu]

I've gone back and forth with CD. He's a homer but doesn't mean any harm. He's knowledgable and passionate. He's not a dick like a lot of other fans (not necessarily Denver) even though he thinks he's right 100% of the time. I enjoy sparring with him.

I agree 100% Like I said I was a fan of them signing Stephenson and Okung but after 6 weeks in I saw it wasn't going to help. CD does mean well but there is a point where you just have to quit making excuses and think it's just one player or coach away from fixing the problem. Like many Broncos fans thought Forsett would give the Broncos a spark and of course I didn't agree. Noone can run behind this o line and there is a reason why Forsett was still available this late in the season. Homers can be so blind at times. There are still some positives with the Broncos this year. The play of Paridis and T. S. looked good at times and the defense as a whole has been solid except the run defense. There will be a lot of work that has to be done in the offseason but there is talent on this team. Need to fix the o line, get a RB that can play the majority of the season. , get a number 3 wr and possibly a tight end. Some d line depth help as well and a punt returner. Besides that it's all good. Peace.

 

[Dr Cyanide 28]

I agree 100% Like I said I was a fan of them signing Stephenson and Okung but after 6 weeks in I saw it wasn't going to help. CD does mean well but there is a point where you just have to quit making excuses and think it's just one player or coach away from fixing the problem. Like many Broncos fans thought Forsett would give the Broncos a spark and of course I didn't agree. Noone can run behind this o line and there is a reason why Forsett was still available this late in the season. Homers can be so blind at times. There are still some positives with the Broncos this year. The play of Paridis and T. S. looked good at times and the defense as a whole has been solid except the run defense. There will be a lot of work that has to be done in the offseason but there is talent on this team. Need to fix the o line, get a RB that can play the majority of the season. , get a number 3 wr and possibly a tight end. Some d line depth help as well and a punt returner. Besides that it's all good. Peace.

can 3 WR and KR be the same person?
Also overall agree, but we got many key pieces in place.

 

[Draft Crazy]

can 3 WR and KR be the same person?
Also overall agree, but we got many key pieces in place.

You said peace!

 

[CEH]

Added cornerback Kayvon Webster: "I can't believe that s---. We held Brady to 16 and still lose? Has that ever happened?

Since 2001, 10-28 is the answer Kayvon.

 

[cdumler7]

Not that I want to agree with a Patriots fan but you are correct. CD is the ultimate homer that thinks the Broncos can do no wrong and all it takes is one guy or one coach. The o line except Paridis is a joke. I told CD numerous time that Stephenson and Okung weren't going to help and he always came up with the injury excuse or need more time to gell. Well there is no time left. The run defense is a problem as well. Losing Jackson hurt more then others will agree. Hell CD still thinks Montee Ball is good. No matter how many times Ive told him that I have seen Ball in every one of his college games living in Wisconsin. I knew the guy was trouble as well but CD would have none of that. CD means well but isn't ever one to admit he was wrong and is the ultimate homer. He is good for information about the Broncos and is a great asset to this Broncos message board but he needs to take off the orange and blue glasses every now and then. I'm no Manning or Brady fan but if CD thinks that T.S. or Lynch will ever produce at there levels then I can't even defend that. Peace.

Well this was fun to wake up and read 2 guys ragging on me and my thoughts on the Broncos and football. Really appreciate it Malibu and really appreciate you trying to put words in my mouth and say they were my own.

Let's just ignore that I have not said that this line is good. I said they had potential. If you don't know what the word potential means it is "not proven yet." You might want to buckle in for this...you and @NWPATSFAN. You guys asked for it so I'm going to give it to you.

1) Okung has not been the trash you make him out to be Malibu. Has he been perfect...No. The Broncos though when running behind him are averaging 4.9 yards per carry this year. That is actually 2nd in the league when running to the left side of the OL. He and Garcia have actually done pretty well run blocking. Okung was known as a good Run Blocker in Seattle. The Broncos though because the overall run game has failed and because they have fallen behind early have had to be a team blocking with teams knowing the Broncos are going to pass. Not quite the strength of Okung.

2) I was wrong on Stephenson. Hey see I can admit when I'm wrong. I thought he would be that next project player the Broncos bring in that would change his career around like we have seen so many others do like Marshall, Davis, Sanders, Knighton, Harris, and Stewart. That hasn't been the case.

3) Montee Ball was actually very productive his rookie year with the Broncos. What is lost in the story of Ball is that he had an appendectomy in the middle of training camp his 2nd year of the season. He was worried about losing his starting job so he came back just a couple of weeks after surgery. Now not sure who here has had that surgery but I have. Depending how they ended up having to do the surgery it can take months to actually build up those core muscles again for a person. It was easy to see that Ball was afraid to take a hit after that surgery happened. He never was the same after that and then obviously the legal trouble set in. I've said a long time ago that Ball lost it and shouldn't be on the team long before we cut him. But hey you keep thinking that I'm still in love with Ball.

4) I'm sorry Malibu if you think all I"m good for on this board is Broncos information and should probably leave out any extra commentary on my thoughts of the Broncos or football to myself. Yes I can be wrong on some things along the way. And on that note what has happened to this board when some are keeping track of everything any of us have ever said that was wrong? I mean do some really think they are completely perfect in everything they say on these boards that they have the right to point out mistakes by others? There is a reason all of us are on a message board instead of working in the NFL. We love talking football but doesn't mean we all know everything.

 

[cdumler7]

@NWPATSFAN this is where things can sometimes frustrate me. People complain about what is wrong but never have any kind of suggestions for a solution. The OL is trash...Well instead of just repeating that over and over how about come up with some ideas of how to fix it kind of thing...That is what I do a lot on these boards is I see the problems and try to figure out some things I think the Broncos could do.

Here is the thing. You are right to expect all those things I said to happen is asking a lot. Not all of it has to happen though for the Broncos to be a Super Bowl contending team though. You realize every team has weaknesses right? Even your great Patriots. Brady and Belichick do a lot to cover up some of the warts of that team. That is why I say I don't think it is this huge overhaul to get the Broncos back to competing for Super Bowls. Not like we are that far off. We just held Brady and the Patriots to 16 points. Heck we have played the top-3 teams in the AFC now and while the Oakland game got away from us we were up by 8 against the Chiefs with just a few seconds left to go in the game. So we have kept it competitive against good teams.

So let me give you my plan for the Broncos of how to get things back on track. Doesn't mean everything will be perfect or that it will all work.

1) I'm honestly of the opinion that Kubiak will be retiring after this season. There is a lot of smoke in Denver that his health is not great and he will be stepping down. So step 1 would be finding a new Head Coach. Easiest solution and in my opinion the best solution is hire Kyle Shanahan from the Falcons. Family connections to the Broncos and it makes the transition easy because he runs such a similar offense to the Broncos. His system is a much more upgraded version though to fit better with today's rules.

2) This would then mean him bringing over many of his offensive assistants to Denver. The one I am most interested in is Chris Morgan the OL coach. Everywhere he has gone the OL has vastly improved without huge changes in personnel. Atlanta is a great example. In 2014 they ranked bottom-10 in blocking grades. 2015 they jumped clear to 4th and are again top-10 this year.

So I haven't even changed a single player on this team and the possibility of this OL vastly improving has become a possibility. You want to talk about what Scar has done for you guys well other teams can have the same thing happen.

3) Yes an upgrade is needed though at the RT position. There are some options via FA and/or the draft for this position. The Broncos actually have a decent cap situation with all key players locked down for this upcoming season. So they can look outwardly for help. I would honestly do both. Use draft capital to help build the youth of this OL and FA to get some experience helping lead the way. This then should add competition throughout the OL as loser of the RT battle then can be a part of the RG/LG battle as well depending on the growth of Garcia and Schofield. Something to keep in mind with this Broncos offense is it is one of the 3 youngest starting offenses in the NFL. There were going to be some tough times when you are relying on so much youth.

4) Yes I do expect some growth from both Siemian and Lynch. Players always talk that the biggest jump in ability happens from year 1 to year 2. Well in a way both Siemian and Lynch are experiencing that at the same time. Both now have starting experience in this league and will have a full off season to work on what went wrong.

I'll stop and let you respond to this because well I'm told I'm too long winded and don't want to get people too lost at this point. One final thought though. It is amazing how much just fixing the run game can improve an entire team. The OL can actually work on pushing forward instead of always having to pass block. Teams don't know what you are going to run at them. You can wear out defenses. When the run game gets going teams have to commit more to box to stop it leaving things easier in the pass game. Play action starts working better. And then because the offense is on the field more the defense gets to rest more. Throw in instead of always being behind in the 1st half maybe the Broncos actually build up a lead helping that run defense because well a team can't just keep running 30 times a game but have to switch to the pass which hey then Von Miller and company can finally pin their ears back and go after the QB. Look at Dallas as a great example. Got the run game going really well with a competent QB at the helm and they actually have a decent looking defense as they don't have to play so many snaps a game.