Game #2 Patriots @ Seattle Seahawks 8:20 PM 9/20/20

[YankeeRebel]

All this but I think the kicking game may be the result of the tight cap space throughout the spring. You are right that it falls on BB, but it's deeper than just "he didn't make sure we had a kicker who could reliably kick". There are other zigs and zags too that impact this.

I realize there were cap issues but it's a kicker. Either way they failed to address it and it did cost us the game.

 

[BigKen]

All this but I think the kicking game may be the result of the tight cap space throughout the spring. You are right that it falls on BB, but it's deeper than just "he didn't make sure we had a kicker who could reliably kick". There are other zigs and zags too that impact this.

Before week one he had $29M..........................no new kicker and Rorhwasser can't kick in real air
Before week two he had $42m..........................no new kicker and Folk missed one in week one.
Before week three he has $42M.........................no excuses, find a fuckin' kicker.

 

[BigKen]

All this but I think the kicking game may be the result of the tight cap space throughout the spring. You are right that it falls on BB, but it's deeper than just "he didn't make sure we had a kicker who could reliably kick". There are other zigs and zags too that impact this.

Here a few guys that are within a phone call

1. Stephen Hauschka, K, Bills. Age: 35. has gone 22-of-28 in each of the past two seasons. He was 1-of-5 from 50-plus in 2019.
2. Graham Gano, K, Panthers. Age: 3 is a solid kicker, but it's unclear if he's healthy after coming off knee surgery.
3. Adam Vinatieri is coming off his worst season as a pro, but he needed knee surgery, so that injury may have affected his accuracy.
   
   
4. Chandler Catanzaro, K, Giants. Age: 29.
5. Nick Folk, K, Patriots. Age: 35.
6. Aldrick Rosas, K, Giants. Age: 25.

 

[Yankee Traveler]

Before week one he had $29M..........................no new kicker and Rorhwasser can't kick in real air
Before week two he had $42m..........................no new kicker and Folk missed one in week one.
Before week three he has $42M.........................no excuses, find a fuckin' kicker.

I guarantee there is a dozen half assed soccer players out there who don't have the lateral quickness or out right speed to play MLS but can seriously boot the ball, and would love an easy million a year.

 

[nefansince75]

Here a few guys that are within a phone call

1. 
   
2. Graham Gano, K, Panthers. Age: 3 is a solid kicker, but it's unclear if he's healthy after coming off knee surgery.
3. Adam Vinatieri is coming off his worst season as a pro, but he needed knee surgery, so that injury may have affected his accuracy.

If you are going to include them on your list you might as well add me. I've seen footage of Andy Reid too, should we call him?

 

[sharkymcwrath]

Just wondering if I'm the only one who has way more confidence when Cam steps back to throw that it will be a completion versus Brady last year?

James White was missed yesterday.

Is Seattle's offense that good or has our defense taken a major step backwards? For half a sec I thought Matty P was back calling the plays.

All in all, I think we have a really good team but there's weaknesses on both sides that could end up costing us an important game against a good team.

I like Cam.

 

[YankeeRebel]

Just wondering if I'm the only one who has way more confidence when Cam steps back to throw that it will be a completion versus Brady last year?

James White was missed yesterday.

Is Seattle's offense that good or has our defense taken a major step backwards? For half a sec I thought Matty P was back calling the plays.

All in all, I think we have a really good team but there's weaknesses on both sides that could end up costing us an important game against a good team.

I like Cam.

I am still leery of Cam but that is to be expected, but I have a lot less confidence in him than I ever did TB12. The dynamics are different now but Cam is growing on me.

 

[nefansince75]

Just wondering if I'm the only one who has way more confidence when Cam steps back to throw that it will be a completion versus Brady last year?

James White was missed yesterday.

Is Seattle's offense that good or has our defense taken a major step backwards? For half a sec I thought Matty P was back calling the plays.

All in all, I think we have a really good team but there's weaknesses on both sides that could end up costing us an important game against a good team.

I like Cam.

I'm fine with Cam.... but let's step away from the koolaide and get tough on him for a second. First you can't grade just one part. Second, he threw the exact same pick twice, but got lucky the first one was dropped (we'll give Bird an assist for getting enough of the ball to help that). Second, he got stuffed on the last play because he stopped thinking. If he can do one thing that was probably TB's best asset, slow down enough to see how the entire play is developing.

TB wasn't perfect and certainly didn't wait on every play. He knew the difference between when the offense was dictating and when it was the defense. When he was dictating he acted quick and decisively. When the D was dictating he waited long enough to know what he could or could not take... It was this second part he had issues with last year.

To be fair, Cam made plays and made the plays that got them to the 1 for the final play. If Edelman had gotten out of bounds or Harry had better leverage on that second to last play then the Pats probably win. Also, Cam croaked on a play long after he had proven he could make big plays without croaking. That bodes well.

All in all I'm grading everything about last night's game harshly because it's the Pat's and their execution bar is very high. That doesn't mean I'm not very positive on where the team is right now. As Parcels once famously said, "you are what your record says you are", and that's 1 and 1, but the trend line is looking good.

 

[cheerupcharlie]

Do are kickers suck? Why yes they do. I loved all the Belichick ball washing in the “Draft thread”. But then some of the same ball washers think he isn’t trying when it comes to the kicker. Do you really think he’s not trying??? Give me a break. That list of kickers Kenneth listed is just a big a pile of steaming crap as the kickers we have. Sorry, but if a team has a solid kicker they keep him. Just like we did Adam and Stephen. If there was a guy out there nailing 50 yarders consistently, I’m willing to bet Belichick would have him in for a tryout. Folk, unfortunately is probably the best option we have.

 

[YankeeRebel]

Do are kickers suck? Why yes they do. I loved all the Belichick ball washing in the “Draft thread”. But then some of the same ball washers think he isn’t trying when it comes to the kicker. Do you really think he’s not trying??? Give me a break. That list of kickers Kenneth listed is just a big a pile of steaming crap as the kickers we have. Sorry, but if a team has a solid kicker they keep him. Just like we did Adam and Stephen. If there was a guy out there nailing 50 yarders consistently, I’m willing to bet Belichick would have him in for a tryout. Folk, unfortunately is probably the best option we have.

Not sure anyone said he wasn't trying, just that he is failing and that failure cost that game.

 

[BigKen]

Do are kickers suck? Why yes they do. I loved all the Belichick ball washing in the “Draft thread”. But then some of the same ball washers think he isn’t trying when it comes to the kicker. Do you really think he’s not trying??? Give me a break. That list of kickers Kenneth listed is just a big a pile of steaming crap as the kickers we have. Sorry, but if a team has a solid kicker they keep him. Just like we did Adam and Stephen. If there was a guy out there nailing 50 yarders consistently, I’m willing to bet Belichick would have him in for a tryout. Folk, unfortunately is probably the best option we have.

I don't disagree with you at all.. Problem is that Folk has NOT made a FG in 2020 and the longest try was 39 yards. There are HS kids that are kicki8ng 50 yard FG in a blizzard let alone dead air. This is one of those BB moments where he just can't sweallow hard and say, "I fucked up on keeping Folk. Because he can't kick a FG and does nothing else, I'm cutting him now and replacing him with Dinky Donky the who can't kick anything over 45 yards but has never missed under 40. He could have cost the Patriots the game against the Dolphins but BB punted instead and the defense took care of the Phins. Yesterday, he did cost us the game because he couldn't hit a 36 yard FG. How many games are you willing NOT to win because of a kicker??

 

[nefansince75]

Not sure anyone said he wasn't trying, just that he is failing and that failure cost that game.

Missing a single kick early in a game doesn't cost the game. Yeah, there are cascading events like choosing not to rely on the kicker later, but this game was lost on a poor interception and a single poor play call. I'm happy with Cam's play but he got stuffed on one run because he wasn't aware of where he was (in front of an alley without visibility) and stuffed on another because he lost his awareness of how the play was unfolding.

The positive of Cam is he's showing he's still a freak athlete with great running and passing skills and has another skill you can't teach....size.

 

[nefansince75]

I loved all the Belichick ball washing in the “Draft thread”. But then some of the same ball washers think he isn’t trying when it comes to the kicker.

Ball washing can be a perception. Referring to him as the best coach ever may seem like ball washing, but not if it's accurate. I think the guy's an asshole, but assholes that are competent often get results. I also think there's a lot more to the guy than "Good coach, check, Asshole, check". He's funny at times ("I think the players had a lot of fun out there" after thumping Philly), and he's truly is playing his own game of chess, regardless of whether the other coaches are playing either checkers or chess. Case in point, at the end of the Seattle Super Bowl he was actually coaching both teams.

 

[BigKen]

I like Cam. The problem for all of us is that Brady was the QB for so long that it's difficult to see this team with a different person behind center. It could be Aaron Rodgers back there but it still would feel "wrong". Until "WE" can get over the change, Cam will perform under a microscope unfairly.

As far as the final play is concerned, that was an option. He could look and see if anyoine was breaking free and throw the ball, OR he could glance up as a fake and run the ball himself. Cam didn't do either. When he got the play call in his helmet, his decision was made and he felt that the best chance to win was him running the ball. The problem was he had already decided that he was going between the LT and TE on the left side. If he had taken one step left and rolled bck right, he had the wide side and would have made it in standing up.

The Seattle D was exhausted and Pete Carroll brilliantly called a time out before the final play and substituted about seven or eight DL and Linebackers. He put the freshest legs he had on the field to close every gap be able to cut angles with speed. It worked.

 

[nefansince75]

I like Cam. The problem for all of us is that Brady was the QB for so long that it's difficult to see this team with a different person behind center. It could be Aaron Rodgers back there but it still would feel "wrong". Until "WE" can get over the change, Cam will perform under a microscope unfairly.

As far as the final play is concerned, that was an option. He could look and see if anyoine was breaking free and throw the ball, OR he could glance up as a fake and run the ball himself. Cam didn't do either. When he got the play call in his helmet, his decision was made and he felt that the best chance to win was him running the ball. The problem was he had already decided that he was going between the LT and TE on the left side. If he had taken one step left and rolled bck right, he had the wide side and would have made it in standing up.

The Seattle D was exhausted and Pete Carroll brilliantly called a time out before the final play and substituted about seven or eight DL and Linebackers. He put the freshest legs he had on the field to close every gap be able to cut angles with speed. It worked.

I don't have that problem. He's gone, next man up.

The problem with the final play was more than just Cam. Both the tight end and full back motioned over to that side. The play had neon lights pointing to exactly where the ball was going and that's where the ball went. Going literally any other place and that was a great play call. Both flanks would have been walk ins, a pass anywhere would have failed for one reason, nobody ran a route. If anyone had tried to leak out and they were alone for a score.... Also, does Johnson have any pop? His edge (a db) seemed to find the ground on his own rather than the block, and he could have been the one to leak out since his guy seemed to be digging a tunnel.

And you are correct about Carroll... It seems HE was coaching both teams on that play.

 

[cheerupcharlie]

Maybe it’s just me, but from this angle it looks like Cam could have moonwalked in if he kept it outside.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

I don't disagree with you at all.. Problem is that Folk has NOT made a FG in 2020 and the longest try was 39 yards. There are HS kids that are kicki8ng 50 yard FG in a blizzard let alone dead air. This is one of those BB moments where he just can't sweallow hard and say, "I fucked up on keeping Folk. Because he can't kick a FG and does nothing else, I'm cutting him now and replacing him with Dinky Donky the who can't kick anything over 45 yards but has never missed under 40. He could have cost the Patriots the game against the Dolphins but BB punted instead and the defense took care of the Phins. Yesterday, he did cost us the game because he couldn't hit a 36 yard FG. How many games are you willing NOT to win because of a kicker??

BB also needs to swallow his pride for drafting a k in round 5 that was a bust. That's where this mess started.
There are other UDFA K still out there. Bring them in for a try out.

Also if BB hadn't gone all in on the 5th rounder there were other FA K available. But that boat sailed.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Maybe it’s just me, but from this angle it looks like Cam could have moonwalked in if he kept it outside.View attachment 253869

I said the same thing yesterday.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Missing a single kick early in a game doesn't cost the game. Yeah, there are cascading events like choosing not to rely on the kicker later, but this game was lost on a poor interception and a single poor play call. I'm happy with Cam's play but he got stuffed on one run because he wasn't aware of where he was (in front of an alley without visibility) and stuffed on another because he lost his awareness of how the play was unfolding.

The positive of Cam is he's showing he's still a freak athlete with great running and passing skills and has another skill you can't teach....size.

This game was lost on bad offense and defensive schemes. Terrible, especially on the D side of the ball.

This team had 3 INTs a week ago. They did not forget how to play. The game plan screwed them. They'll bounce back.

 

[nefansince75]

This game was lost on bad offense and defensive schemes. Terrible, especially on the D side of the ball.

This team had 3 INTs a week ago. They did not forget how to play. The game plan screwed them. They'll bounce back.

Spot on. Case in point, J Jones blitz seemed to freeze Russ, then why not use him as a spy.