Frank Clark, Post your thoughts here on him please.

[Screamin12th]

Sceamin 12. Sorry bro, but claiming that Clark would of been there in the 4th and 5th rounds is fairies and unicorns wishful thinking. He would of been long gone. You talk as if the Seahawks were the only team who knew he was even in the draft. Your buying way too much into the generic draft grades assigned to players.

I remember Hawk fans claiming the same thing about Irvin when he was taken by the Hawks in the mid 1st. "He would of been available in 3rd round!!!" Bullshit he would have.

Irvin was productive in only two years of college, Clark was not in 4. There is a big difference. I do not listen to talking heads and that's why i feel Clark was a reach. If i listened to them i would say it was a ok to solid pick but they are only saying that because they have went against Seattles picks for so long and have been proven wrong every year. Time will tell but i think clark will never have a 8 sack season in the NFL, heck i don't think he will have a 7 sack season. All he can do is bull rush and against better opponents they took that away from him. Every week in the NFL he will be facing players much better than the ones that limited him to 4.5 sacks.

 

[JMR]

Stop with the "he would have been there NO DOUBT 3 rounds later" nonsense. You throw it out there like fact but it's just your opinion. We only have 1 version of history, so what you *think* would have happened is just your own speculation, which is fine, but don't insist it's a fact that we should all adopt as a foregone conclusion.

The only thing we know for sure is that had the Hawks not drafted him at 63, he would have been there at 64. You don't know what happens after that, no matter how many college stats you throw out there.

Here's how stuff like this works: if Clark ends up being good, nobody cares where he was drafted. If he isn't good, then it will be looked at as a bad pick. It's just like playcalling.

 

[JMR]

I'm very much against domestic violence. But the girlfriend admitted to biting him on the nose and throwing crap at him. This wasn't a case of Clark just going caveman on her.

He should have shown more restraint certainly but it certainly sounds like ol girl was being more than a little physically provocative. Biting him on the nose is just as much domestic violence as whatever he did.

Yup, and sometimes chicks attack. We don't know who was the aggressor in this situation. She bit him and was throwing stuff at him, which sounds like an attack. If you're fending off an attack, you just may need to use force if the attacker is not stopping. Even if they don't pee standing up.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Bruce Irvin had good success in college rushing the passer. 14 sacks and 8.5 sacks ( 22.5 total ) also 14 tfl and then 15 tfl (29 in 26 games) also had 5 total FF over those two years. Clark did not have to much success rushing the passer. he played in 10 more games than Irvin did and had 11 TOTAL sacks not 14 like Irvin got in one season but 11 over 35 games. He is almost as good at stopping the run with 35 total tackles for loss ( average of 1 per game ) but only had 1 FF.

He was a late 3rd round to mid 4th round talent at BEST with out the off the field issues, He would have been there for the Hawks 4th round pick and most likely their 5th. He is a heavy footed SLOW player with marginal athletic ability. Yes he had a nice 38 inch vert but he had a 4.8 ( 4.79 ) 40 and slow change of direction. He is quick off the ball and has a strong bull rush with good hand work FOR the bull rush but that is it. I find it funny that 1 out of every 5 scouting reports says he is a athlete but those other four say he is only a marginal athlete that is stiff.

Strong he is, a quick twitch pass rusher he is not. He will play early downs and one day MIGHT just MIGHT take over Bennett or Avrils job, If we are lucky and he plays well enough to earn a starting nod.

Don't like the pick where it was taken. I do not mind the player i just think he would have been there in the 4th or 5th and the Hawks could have got a stud Olineman.

Also as why i started this thread
This thread is about Clark and Clark only, no digging through draft day pick post to find posts that focus on our first pick.

Also Clark will never be a OLB in the true sense unless he lost some pounds and got that 40 yard dash under 4.6.

Could not disagree more Screaming. Here's a article from my favorite Seahawks draft blogger. He addresses your points and totally disagrees with your views on Franks.

Seattles Frank Clark flashes first round talent, explosion | Seahawks Draft Blog


Frank Clark could’ve been a first round pick. The character flags and his dismissal from Michigan made him available to the Seahawks at the end of the second round.


PFF ranked Clark as the third most productive pass rusher in college football last season and the sixth best versus the run. Fowler Jr came in at #8 in terms of pass rush and wasn’t in the top-20 for run

defense.

Cliff Avril ran a 1.50 split at 253lbs. Bruce Irvin ran a 1.55 split at 245lbs. Clark is nearly 20lbs heavier than Avril and 26lbs heavier than Irvin. He’s in the same ball-park for short-range quickness.

Clark is a splash play specialist. A splash play is recorded any time a pass rusher negatively impacts a pass attempt. That could be a sack, knocking down the ball at the LOS, tipping a pass or hitting a QB while he’s throwing the ball.


Not all of these plays show up in the stat column. There’s a lot of focus on sacks in particular — as if it’s the greatest determining factor in how effective a player is.


In many cases it’s a red herring.


Let’s say a defensive end explodes off the snap and gets into the backfield, forcing the quarterback to move off the spot. He tries to scramble and runs straight into the arms of a defensive tackle who records the sack. The D-end makes the play but gets none of the credit.


Clark only recorded 4.5 sacks in ten games for Michigan in 2014. That doesn’t even begin to tell the story of his production. He added 13.5 TFL’s, broke up two passes, averaged 4.2 tackles a game and impacted many more snaps.

His pursuit is phenomenal and virtually unmatched in the 2015 draft class. He works down the line better than any other pass rusher, stringing out run plays and often making tackles by the sideline. He doesn’t give up, the motor never stops. If he doesn’t win initially in a 1v1 battle he keeps going, works off the block and largely holds position at the very least. These are all valuable traits when it comes to run defense. Even if he doesn’t end up being a sack artist — he’ll always hold major value for his range and pursuit against the run. He’s a tough guy to move around.

You see everything you look for in an accomplished pass rusher too. Too many college players rely on speed to dominate overmatched offensive linemen. When they get to the next level and they take on superior blockers they are one-dimensional and become ineffective or resort to specialist roles. Clark is capable of taking on a blocker, disengaging with heavy hands and exploding into the backfield. He’s willing to mix things up — stunting inside, using the spin move. He’ll draw you in from different angles. He’s adept at converting speed to power and yet you still see the two fundamental plays — the speed rush to the edge and the bull rush.

Let me add another link.

CFF Sig Stats: Edge Defenders | ProFootballFocus.com

Then add what JS had to say, which was Clark is a heck of a pass rusher and I'd have to say I like what I hear about Clark. No idea if he would of been available later, but I'll go with JS and Pete's opinion that he wouldn't be.

 

[SonnyCID]

Not sure if this has been referenced yet.

Frank Clark prosecutor: "I do not believe he punched her or slapped her" - Field Gulls

 

[Screamin12th]

hey i hope i am wrong but anyone saying that i am are just posting opinions is all right now just like i am. Only time will tell but i do not have high expectations of Clark and it has "NOTHING" to do with his off the field stuff i am talking about his productivity on the field.

Harold i respect your posts and i want to add that Clemons was the same kind of beast and people on here ignored what he was doing other than his sacks. He himself forced QB's into the grasp of other players more often than not and never got credit for it. Heck it was his backside Pressure in the superbowl against Denver that allowed Avril to tip a pass that was returned for a TD. NO ONE talked about the awesome game Clemons had because he didn't have the numbers, but that superbowl was a GREAT game for him, HUGE game the stats just didn't show up. So i understand how people effect games with out it showing up on the stats but i also do not believe Clark is on that level. I feel he will be another Redding type DE up front. I have little hope he will grow into a starter but there is hope, I did not say i have no hope.

Again no one would have touched him before the 4th in my eyes.

 

[Screamin12th]

wanted to add some things

Avril) 3cone-6.90 40-4.51 20-2.58 10-1.50
Irvin) 3cone-6.70 40-4.50 20-2.66 10-1.58
Clark) 3cone-7.08 40-4.79 20-2.81 10-1.69

as you can see his short yard explosion is not on the same level as these two, not even in the same neighborhood. I would put his numbers up against 3-4 DE's not OLB type DE that are in our 4-3. Justin Smith would be a good one to pair him to. Problem is Smith didn't have anything but the 40 for his numbers a 4.64 blowing away Clarks ( smith was a stud though )

Clark had only 19 reps at 225 O.O WTF!?!?!?!

 

[JMR]

hey i hope i am wrong but anyone saying that i am are just posting opinions is all right now just like i am. Only time will tell but i do not have high expectations of Clark and it has "NOTHING" to do with his off the field stuff i am talking about his productivity on the field.

Harold i respect your posts and i want to add that Clemons was the same kind of beast and people on here ignored what he was doing other than his sacks. He himself forced QB's into the grasp of other players more often than not and never got credit for it. Heck it was his backside Pressure in the superbowl against Denver that allowed Avril to tip a pass that was returned for a TD. NO ONE talked about the awesome game Clemons had because he didn't have the numbers, but that superbowl was a GREAT game for him, HUGE game the stats just didn't show up. So i understand how people effect games with out it showing up on the stats but i also do not believe Clark is on that level. I feel he will be another Redding type DE up front. I have little hope he will grow into a starter but there is hope, I did not say i have no hope.

Again no one would have touched him before the 4th in my eyes.

I think you're not quite sure what you think. Just go back and read the OP. You start by saying you are "ok" with the pick and then by the end you say it's a miss. You say without off field issues, he would have been a 2nd or 3rd round pick (which is exactly what he was, even with the off field issues) and then say "without a doubt" he's still there in the 5th round. Now you're saying nobody would have touched him before the 4th. I think it sounds like you're not really sure what would have happened, which is exactly the right answer.

 

[gohusk]

High risk/high reward. If he screws up then just bite the bullet and release him. I don't want another Jerramy Stevens situation with the staff and FO making excuses for a guy who's basically scum.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Love the Clark pick. The guy was one of the best performers in the cone, shuttle, and vert drills. That tells me the guy is explosive off the line and changes directly quickly. I always generally skip the 40 time and bench press for d-lineman (which Clark didn't perform that well on). The power from a lineman comes from lower body strength and ability to be quick and change direction quickly to go against the better O-Lineman. Clark excelled in all of those areas.

Without the character concern he's a mid-late 1st round pick. That said, the judge during the domestic violence issue said he was a very polite and well spoken man. Hopefully he stays clean off field because I think he'll be visiting QBs Seattle plays just plenty.

 

[JMR]

Love the Clark pick. The guy was one of the best performers in the cone, shuttle, and vert drills. That tells me the guy is explosive off the line and changes directly quickly.

Actually, he was THE best for DEs in the vertical, 3 cone, 20 yd shuttle, and 60 yd shuttle at the combine, at least according to NFL.com. He did run a so-so 4.79, but he dropped it to 4.64 at his pro day, which is outstanding for 6'3" and 271.

 

[Screamin12th]

I think you're not quite sure what you think. Just go back and read the OP. You start by saying you are "ok" with the pick and then by the end you say it's a miss. You say without off field issues, he would have been a 2nd or 3rd round pick (which is exactly what he was, even with the off field issues) and then say "without a doubt" he's still there in the 5th round. Now you're saying nobody would have touched him before the 4th. I think it sounds like you're not really sure what would have happened, which is exactly the right answer.

No, i am ok with the pick but i believe they could have got him in the 4th or 5 rounds thats what i am NOT ok with. That is the miss. They could have got a stud Olineman and STILL got Clark. He was rated ( Clark ) as something like the 20-25th best DE in the draft and was something like the 10th DE Picked? yeah thats a miss. I am ok with the miss because they are taking a chance and i hope it works out for the Hawks but i just wish they would have played hardball here and went Oline and snagged him in the 4th or 5th where he was projected. Instead of trading our 3rd/4th and 6th? to move up and pick Lockett they could have Snagged a stud Olineman, Grabbed Clark with the 3rd and kept all those other picks ( I am glad they got Lockett though even at 175 pounds ). Just the whole idea of using a 2nd round pick on a 4th round talent is crazy. No people he was not a 2nd round talent that dropped down because of Red flags. He was a 3rd round talent at BEST with out the flags and more likely a 4th or 5th round talent. I would have rated 15-20 DE better than him in this past draft and most DE rankings ( like 90% of them ) have him in the 20 range. So why was he the 10-12th DE taken. I hope he proves me wrong but i won't be holding my breath.

 

[JMR]

No, i am ok with the pick but i believe they could have got him in the 4th or 5 rounds thats what i am NOT ok with. That is the miss. They could have got a stud Olineman and STILL got Clark. He was rated ( Clark ) as something like the 20-25th best DE in the draft and was something like the 10th DE Picked? yeah thats a miss. I am ok with the miss because they are taking a chance and i hope it works out for the Hawks but i just wish they would have played hardball here and went Oline and snagged him in the 4th or 5th where he was projected. Instead of trading our 3rd/4th and 6th? to move up and pick Lockett they could have Snagged a stud Olineman, Grabbed Clark with the 3rd and kept all those other picks ( I am glad they got Lockett though even at 175 pounds ). Just the whole idea of using a 2nd round pick on a 4th round talent is crazy. No people he was not a 2nd round talent that dropped down because of Red flags. He was a 3rd round talent at BEST with out the flags and more likely a 4th or 5th round talent. I would have rated 15-20 DE better than him in this past draft and most DE rankings ( like 90% of them ) have him in the 20 range. So why was he the 10-12th DE taken. I hope he proves me wrong but i won't be holding my breath.

I'm getting dizzy trying to follow you on this. In this thread alone you've rated his talent from 2nd round to 5th round and everywhere in between. You've also said that he both was and was not a 2nd round talent minus the red flags. I think you've attached three different rounds to the "at best" label as well. Again, I think it just boils down to you're really not sure what he is right now, which is pretty much where the rest of us are also.

 

[gohusk]

Meh. Everyone's a draft expert. I'm not going to chime in on where he should be drafted based on his talent and will defer to our staff on that. They obviously liked what they saw and are willing to roll the dice. So if he's the guy they want and are willing to risk a pick in a certain round then they should do it regardless of where other teams might have him. We got bashed for taking Wagner where we did. Look how that turned out.

 

[gohusk]

I didn't know he strong armed a lap top as well! Hopefully this guy isn't a time bomb. Surprised he didn't get dismissed for that. Good for hiim Harb's weren't there for that incident. We all know how tight he runs his locker rooms.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

If the guy can improve our pass rush I'm ok with the pick... Obviously if he starts doing stupid #@@# now that he's representing the Seahawks, I'd hate the pick... But he deserves a chance...

 

[Anointed One]

I was impressed with his interview today... I hope he's turned the corner and plays some dang good football for us...

 

[WizardHawk]

I have waited to weigh in and I guess I'm far enough in my thoughts to finally chime in. (as if that's any big deal lol)

The prosecutor went a long way to answering at least the tone of the encounter that questioned his character and for now I'm past that. As long as he stays clean I won't hold that against him.

As for his skills and the 2nd round pick, I'm totally fine with that.

The Leo position is such an important component of this defensive scheme and Clark has at least promise to be fully both sides of that bill. Irvin, in contrast, really is a DE. That's just where his strength was/is.

Clark started out as a Safety in high school and was playing around 215? Something down that far before Michigan bulked him the hell up and put him on as a pass rusher.

He may have not played football as a Leo, but with experience at both pass rushing and pass route/pass defense he has a lot of promise to be that much coveted and missing piece of the puzzle.

Of course there is a risk of being a bust. Promise doesn't mean probowler.

Given how big a true Leo stud is, who can blame this team for ranking him at a 2nd round value?

Teams don't go by pundit values and no two teams value the same players the same way. He fits the bill of a Leo, but who else has that same combination of skill set needs? In their defense they find such great need, and more importantly, such a short supply of potential of players with the unique attributes to play it the way they way want, that they for sure will rate those that do fit that bill very very high.

They will live and die by their decisions as they always do, but this one I totally get and I'm fine with. If he ends up filling that role this defense will go to another level. The nightmare on offenses of having a true dangerous Leo out there and not knowing whether he's rushing or covering on any down will be fun to watch.

 

[RegentDenali]

Agree with a lot of that.

Bennett or Irvin could be gone next year. Possibly even both. Clark will have the benefit of a year of indoctrination into the system and could be a key piece of our D going forward for years to come.

I like the pick because it's not just about getting some depth at the DE/OLB spot this year, but grooming this guy to take over a starting job sooner than later. As long as he practices what he preached today and doesn't get into any trouble, then welcome to the Seahawks and get it done.

 

[dude82]

I have waited to weigh in and I guess I'm far enough in my thoughts to finally chime in. (as if that's any big deal lol)

The prosecutor went a long way to answering at least the tone of the encounter that questioned his character and for now I'm past that. As long as he stays clean I won't hold that against him.

As for his skills and the 2nd round pick, I'm totally fine with that.

The Leo position is such an important component of this defensive scheme and Clark has at least promise to be fully both sides of that bill. Irvin, in contrast, really is a DE. That's just where his strength was/is.

Clark started out as a Safety in high school and was playing around 215? Something down that far before Michigan bulked him the hell up and put him on as a pass rusher.

He may have not played football as a Leo, but with experience at both pass rushing and pass route/pass defense he has a lot of promise to be that much coveted and missing piece of the puzzle.

Of course there is a risk of being a bust. Promise doesn't mean probowler.

Given how big a true Leo stud is, who can blame this team for ranking him at a 2nd round value?

Teams don't go by pundit values and no two teams value the same players the same way. He fits the bill of a Leo, but who else has that same combination of skill set needs? In their defense they find such great need, and more importantly, such a short supply of potential of players with the unique attributes to play it the way they way want, that they for sure will rate those that do fit that bill very very high.

They will live and die by their decisions as they always do, but this one I totally get and I'm fine with. If he ends up filling that role this defense will go to another level. The nightmare on offenses of having a true dangerous Leo out there and not knowing whether he's rushing or covering on any down will be fun to watch.

I think this sums up my thoughts on his value and I think it also illustrates how the "experts" could have given the Hawks such bad grades for the first few Schneider/Carroll drafts when those drafts couldn't have gone much better for the Hawks once the players took the field in the roles they were drafted to fill.