Elijah's 2014-15 Off-Season/Scouting Thread

[elijah]

The way I see it, the top 6 teams all really need offense. Then the next 3 teams need defense. The next 2 teams need offensive line. This means that you're going to need to be a 'Suh' type prospect to crack that top 6. It sounds like most people have Williams as that guy but I think there is a chance that the 5th and 6th best defensive players will end up falling a bit.

The only defensive player guaranteed to go in the top 5 (in my opinion) is Leonard Williams. Everyone else defensively may experience a fall. On the other hand, I feel that Shane Ray may climb boards on draft day.

 

[Clayton]

The only defensive player guaranteed to go in the top 5 (in my opinion) is Leonard Williams. Everyone else defensively may experience a fall. On the other hand, I feel that Shane Ray may climb boards on draft day.

Ive seen a couple of mocks with Ray really high. I think 9th is about right for him. He can be a double digit a year sack guy on a team that already has one pass rusher to compliment him. I think if he goes to a team with a bad oline, teams can gameplan against him like teams do against Aldon Smith and Robert Quinn if they don't have any help.

A google search of Ray says that NFL network asked 5 executives for an NFL comp for Shane Ray and they came up with Von Miller twice, Mingo, Jerry Hughes, Bruce Irvin and poor man's Demarcus Ware.

I also think Ray is a physically maxed out athletic freak but is undersized. The DE version of Aaron Donald. I think Gregory will get picked before him but I think Ray will have the better career (and yes Im biased)

 

[Clayton]

Meant to say "If Ray goes to a team with a bad defensive line he might struggle."

 

[cdumler7]

Ive seen a couple of mocks with Ray really high. I think 9th is about right for him. He can be a double digit a year sack guy on a team that already has one pass rusher to compliment him. I think if he goes to a team with a bad oline, teams can gameplan against him like teams do against Aldon Smith and Robert Quinn if they don't have any help.

A google search of Ray says that NFL network asked 5 executives for an NFL comp for Shane Ray and they came up with Von Miller twice, Mingo, Jerry Hughes, Bruce Irvin and poor man's Demarcus Ware.

I also think Ray is a physically maxed out athletic freak but is undersized. The DE version of Aaron Donald. I think Gregory will get picked before him but I think Ray will have the better career (and yes Im biased)

I honestly don't get the hype around Randy Gregory. I think he is good but many have him as a top-5 pick and I guess I just don't see it. In the Holiday Bowl he really was non-existent. I am actually a bit of a Husker fan and watched more than a few of his games and when he is on yes he looks great but I just don't see that Von Miller and Khalil Mack type player that every game they are making the one play that makes you see a bright future.

 

[elijah]

Winston isn't helping his case at all right now. Has very poor accuracy, bad reads, bad awareness, an awkward throwing motion and a very loose spiral. This game is not showing NFL talent from him.

 

[Clayton]

Winston isn't helping his case at all right now. Has very poor accuracy, bad reads, bad awareness, an awkward throwing motion and a very loose spiral. This game is not showing NFL talent from him.

He has had 2 trainwreck games this year. Id hesitate to give him anything higher than a 3rd round grade

 

[SomeGuy]

Hoping the Bucs go after an offensive lineman. I don't like rushing qbs in the NFL. Never have, never will. Doubt anyone would take a trade down for either of these 2 QBs as well.

 

[TKOSpikes]

Just find us some Guards, Elijah.... looks like it will have to be 2nd and 3rd rounders though.

 

[elijah]

Hoping the Bucs go after an offensive lineman. I don't like rushing qbs in the NFL. Never have, never will. Doubt anyone would take a trade down for either of these 2 QBs as well.

I don't really see the Bucs passing on a QB, especially with how Mariota played in the semi-finals. It seems like Mariota may be a lock, but a trade down could happen. The Jets would trade up for a chance with Mariota.

 

[elijah]

Watching this Colts game, they need a receiver desperately.

A trade up for Kevin White makes complete sense for them. They need a tall guy who can catch the ball, Kevin White would make an immediate impact for them. Luck needs a receiver who can hold onto the ball, with his mechanics and his game, he looks like the best quarterback in the NFL at times. His receivers consistenly dropping the ball doesn't help his case.

 

[elijah]

Thomas Tyner is raising his draft stock for 2016 with every run

 

[elijah]

EDGE/DE - Dante Fowler Jr. - Florida
6’3” - 261 Lbs. - Junior

Pros:
- Great size, especially in comparison to this draft class.
- Very quick off of the line.
- Can play ¾ OLB and 4/3 DE interchangeably.
- Plays with great pursuit.
- Very strong, uses his strength well.
- Consistently a force on the defensive line.
- Makes plays all over the field.
- Very quick around the edge and with pass rushing moves.
- Eats up the gaps often.

Cons:
- Doesn’t always close out on the tackle well, missed multiple sacks.
- Doesn’t read the run too well.
- Plays poorly against the rush.

Review:
I need to revisit Randy Gregory, because on the contrary to what most scouts believe, I see another defensive lineman as being better than him. Fowler struggled against the rush on occasion but otherwise had a very talented skill set.

Fowler may be the best pass rusher in this draft. He plays quick, explosive and powerful football. He makes an impact all over the football field. Fowler lined up interchangably between a ¾ OLB and a 4/3 DE all season long, and he played great at both positions. He pursued the ball very well and was a consistent force. His size helped him tremendously, and he used his strength to his advantage. In a strong draft class of pass rushers, his size may be what sets him apart from the rest.

With the up’s come the down’s though, and Fowler has a glaring weakness in the rushing game. He doesn’t read the rush well, and overall isn’t a very good rush defender. His tackling is also very inconsistent, as he often times couldn’t set to slow down and make the tackle.

Fowler hasn’t really struck scouts as one of the top defensive lineman yet (Ray, Gregory, Williams), but it should just be a matter of time before he’s put right into the same category. Though his rush defense isn’t the greatest, his pass rush is elite and he will make an immediate impact wherever he gets drafted.

Grade: 8.9/10

 

[elijah]

SS - Landon Collins - Alabama
6’0” - 215 Lbs. - Junior

Pros:
- Quick, covers ground fast.
- Closes fast.
- Excels in zone coverage.
- Closes down the alley quickly, plays well against the rush.
- Blitzes from the safety position well.
- Shows great athleticism.
- Talented on special teams.
- Good safety size.
- Reads the quarterback’s eye well.
- Flips his hips well.
- Plays physical, hits hard.

Cons:
- Plays very inconsistent at times.
- Reads the rush well, but reacts slowly at times.
- Had a rather poor game against Mississippi State.
- Needs to work on man coverage.

Review:
Collins is a great prospect with elite potential, but his draft stock is hurt by his position. It’s not often that safeties get drafted early, but Collins has two real chances to go in the top 10 to either Washington or Chicago. In the past five years, only two safeties have gone in the top 10. One being a former Alabama player as well (Mark Barron).

Collins plays quick, hard and physical football. He’s your ideal strong safety for the most part. It starts at his size, though the NFL is starting to prefer bigger defensive back’s, he still hit the six foot mark. Collins is also a pretty strong and physical athlete. He’s a talented player that excels against the rush and in zone coverage. Everything he does is quick, he closes down the alley quickly, he closes on his man quickly, he plays quick on special teams and he blitzes quick around the edge. He has very good on-field speed. His zone coverage was more impressive than I was expecting, read the quarterback’s eyes well and flipped his hips well.

The biggest weakness in his game is his man coverage, he just got flat out beat too many times. Collins will need to improve his man-to-man coverage in the NFL. Other than his man coverage, Collins was inconsistent at times. He’d react to the rush slowly, he’d miss an open-field tackle, or he’d sit too deep in his zone/too far forward in his zone and mess up what would be routine plays for himself.

Collins should fit into a defense almost immediately, and his ceiling is sky high. He impressed me much more than I was expecting from him. His draft stock is all over the place right now though, as he could go as high as 5th, or as low as 20th. He should go by pick 7 based on his talent, but he may slip.

Grade: 8.8/10 (Top 10 Pick)

 

[Quentin]

Winston will still go first in the draft, he has been playing at a level equal to the level of most qbs in the nfl and if he can fix his off the field issues then he has lots of potential.

 

[elijah]

OT - Brandon Scherff - Iowa
6’5” - 315 Lbs. - RS Senior

Pros:
- Very big, strong body.
- Dominate when he gets under his block.
- Dominate rush blocker.
- Gets to the second level very well.
- Moves well, shows good balance.

Cons:
- Often gets beat by speed.
- Fitted much, much more to be a RT or a guard.
- Struggles with pass-protection.
- Gets caught on his heels too often.
- Showed poor communication against the blitz on occassion.

Review:
My first impression of Scherff came against Maryland, that as an awful first impression. It pointed out just how bad of a left tackle Scherff would make in the NFL. He needs to play as a right tackle or guard at the next level, or he will not make it.

As a run blocker, Scherff is absolutely dominate. In the NFL, he’ll be able to pick up right away as a run blocker. More fitted to be a guard or right tackle, Scherff could a force at either position. He looks pro ready when you look at his rush blocking. He moves to the second level very well, he shows great balance and he is just big and physical.

Looking at Scherff as a left tackle, he’d be a second round prospect. It’s almost a definite that Scherff will be moved in the NFL. He is a very mediocre pass protector, and when he’s off of his game, it’s ugly. Speed rushers often have their way against Scherff, he gets caught on his heels often because he depends on his strength too much. He has poor communication against the pass rush, and it is ugly.

If Scherff is moved to a guard or right tackle position, he’s a top 15 prospect. If he gets drafted with out the intention of his position being moved, he shouldn’t be taken until the second round. He’s a very overrated prospect, his film was pretty disappointing.

Grade: 8.6/10

 

[elijah]

WR - Dorial Green-Beckham - Missouri / Oklahoma
6’6” - 225 Lbs. - Junior

Pros:
- Great size.
- Physical specimen, amazing athlete.
- Great red zone threat.
- High points the ball well.
- Huge vertical. times his jump right.
- Runs hard, hard to bring down.
- Gets separation well.
- Good hands and focus on the ball, can catch it seemingly anywhere.
- Extremely quick cuts on his routes.
- Huge strides, plays fast.
- Makes a conscience effort to block in the rush game, blocks well.

Cons:
- Huge character issues.
- Inconsistent throughout his college career.
- Hasn’t played football in a year.
- Needs to improve his route-running.

Review:
If not for his character issues, Green-Beckham could have been a top 3 pick in this draft. He may have the most raw talent in the draft. His film was extremely impressive, if you’re drafting Green-Beckham, you know what you’re getting with his game.

Green-Beckham is a physical specimen. His size is fantastic for a receiver, and he’s an amazing athlete with big strides. Green-Beckham plays fast, and he plays hard. He’s nearly unstoppable in one-on-one coverage, especially in the red zone. His height, leaping ability, and great focus on the ball makes him a legitimate red zone threat. He’s a dynamic game changer that will call for defense to completely scheme around him. Perhaps the weakest part of his game, his routes, even have a decent bit of upside. He lacks a burst, but still makes his cuts quick.

As said above, his cuts may be the weakest part of his game. His footwork is poor and he lacks a burst coming out of his cut. Other than his route-running, Green-Beckham has no outstanding issues with his game. The character issues may be a big concern to a lot of teams. Green-Beckham has had multiple issues with marijuana and had an accusation of domestic violence.

I came away from Green-Beckham’s tape very, very impressed. He may be the most talented player in this draft, and his huge body size only makes it all that much better. With his talent, a team is likely to roll the dice on him early. He’s a big risk, with an enormous reward. Come draft time, Green-Beckham will climb the big boards and be a top 10 pick, if not top 5. With his combination of talent and character issues, he can go anywhere from top 5 to early 2nd round. My grade below takes his character issues into account, with out taking them into account, Green-Beckham would have been upwards of a 9.4.

Grade: 9.0/10 (Top 5 to Early Second Round)

 

[elijah]

DT - Danny Shelton - Washington
6’2” - 343 Lbs. - Senior

Pros:
- Great size.
- Plays huge in the hole.
- Plays strong.
- Big two gap defender.
- Plays hard and hits hard.
- Good practices at the senior bowl.

Cons:
- Rather slow.
- Allows offensive lineman to get under him.
- Reads the play poorly.
- Doesn’t have great balance.
- Struggled to shed blocks.
- Slow off the line.
- Closed on the ball rather slowly.
- No repetoire, only bull rushes.

Review:
Danny Shelton would play best as a 3-4 nose tackle. I was nowhere near as impressed with Danny Shelton as other scouts are. He’s slow and he has awful balance, Shelton looked no better than a late first round pick.

On the upside, Shelton is huge and he takes up a lot of space on the field. He’s hard to move, and he’s an ideal two-gap defending big man. Shelton has great strength to him and he has a terrific bull rush.

The upside to this guy is rather small. He’s slow, slow when he pursues, slow off the line, slow in the pass rush, slow all-around. Because he’s slow off the line, it’s easy for offensive lineman to get under him. Once the offensive lineman gets under him, it was game over. Shelton struggled greatly with shedding blocks. Shelton’s stats are inflated, and his sklils aren’t as good as the statistics say. He’s awful at reading the play, and couldn’t do anything other than bull rush.

The best chance that Shelton has in the NFL lies in a 3-4 defense. With out good coaching, Shelton isn’t likely to do much in the NFL. A good coach could utilize his size right, and make him into a player though. Shelton could go as high as the top 10, but doesn’t deserve to be picked until late first or early second.

Grade: 8.2/10 (Top 10 - Mid-2nd Round)

 

[Southieinnc]

Winston is an odd case. He shows so much upside, often immediately followed by downside. He has potential, but he's not someone I would want on my team.

He looks like his best case scenario is a career long, middle-of-the-pack QB with a good team surrounding him. He makes too many poor choices, I wouldn't take him early. Should fall to the late first, I don't think he's worth a top 20 pick.

He's a very high risk, high reward type player. The risk may be higher than the reward though.

I taught my kids to use their brains. One of the lectures was "$5 felonies" - If you are going to get in trouble, don't let it be for something stupid like leaning out the window and patting a chick on the ass -10 yrs, or stealing a road cone - 2 years, stealing anything - shit if you are going to be a thief, work on Wall Street!

Nobody has given this lesson to Winston. His big mistakes are all stupid mistakes. Lots more of those coming, IMHO.....

 

[elijah]

Updated Grades/Big Board So Far
1.) Marcus Mariota - QB - 9.6
2.) Leonard Williams - DT - 9.4
3.) Amari Cooper - WR - 9.0
4.) Dorial Green-Beckham - WR - 8.9
5.) Shane Ray - EDGE/DE - 8.9
6.) Dante Fowler Jr. - EDGE/DE - 8.9
7.) Kevin White - WR - 8.9
8.) Landon Collins - SS - 8.8
9.) Randy Gregory - EDGE/DE - 8.7
10.) Todd Gurley - RB - 8.7 (9.5 not considering injury)
11.) Vic Beasley - EDGE/34 OLB - 8.6
12.) Brandon Scherff - OT - 8.6
13.) Jameis Winston - QB - 8.6
14.) La’el Collins - OT - 8.5
15.) Danny Shelton - DT - 8.2

Notable Players Yet to Be Ranked: Alvin Dupree, Shaq Thompson, Trae Waynes, Ronnie Staley, TJ Clemmings, DeVante Parker, Cedric Ogbuehi, Melvin Gordon, Devin Funchess, PJ Williams, Eddie Goldman, Andrus Peat, Marcus Peters, Benardrick McKinney, Ereck Flowers, Danielle Hunter, Cameron Erving, Leonard Floyd, Shilique Calhoun, Jaleen Strong, DeForest Buckner, AJ Cann, Ty Sambrailo, Lorenzo Mauldin, Markus Golden, Cody Prewitt, Nate Orchard, Arik Armstead, Ifo Ekpre-Olomu, Nelson Agholor, Maxx Williams, Eli Harold, Owamagbe Odighizuwa, Mario Edwards Jr., Brett Hundley, Garrett Grayson





Going to start picking up a little more with the draft getting closer.

 

[Clayton]

Stanley went back to ND. He would've been a first rounder imo

Throwing out some thoughts of guys I see when looking at Draft Breakdown.

Ereck Flowers. Is he Lane Johnson?
Devante Parker. Is he a better Keenan Allen?
L'ael Collins. Is he even a 1st rounder?
Todd Gurley. Is he Marshawn Lynch without the superquick feet?
Landon Collins. Why does he look so lazy on tackles?
Melvin Gordon. Is he Darren McFadden?
Shaq Thompson. Whats his ideal position?