Eli Manning - HOF?

[Darrell Green Fan]

I think we may both agree on "deserving"

We dis-agree on whether it will happen

I'm not so sure voters account for different eras as much as you do, and at the end of the day, they will view his stats and place in history as worthy

No actually despite being a "rings" guy I don't think Eli is deserving at all for the reasons I have posted. You are right, nobody is arguing that he was lights out during those playoffs. But Joe Flacco has been as well and nobody would consider him.

The post showing his rankings year to year is all I need to see, no way is he a top QB of his era. And every HOF voter I have ever heard said that is the #1 thing they look at.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

No actually despite being a "rings" guy I don't think Eli is deserving at all for the reasons I have posted. You are right, nobody is arguing that he was lights out during those playoffs. But Joe Flacco has been as well and nobody would consider him.

The post showing his rankings year to year is all I need to see, no way is he a top QB of his era. And every HOF voter I have ever heard said that is the #1 thing they look at.

"Undeserving" is what I meant

Again, guess we will see...He will be the only guy left out of the HOF Top 10 all time in some major categories, and many of those guys don't have a ring, never mind 2

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

"Undeserving" is what I meant

Again, guess we will see...He will be the only guy left out of the HOF Top 10 all time in some major categories, and many of those guys don't have a ring, never mind 2

Yeah like I said I'm a big ring guy, it really is a measuring stick especially for QBs. But it's not the only measuring stick. Eli and Flacco are 2 of the strangest players I've ever seen. Both are just OK when compared to their peers, they just are, but they have both come up huge in the biggest moments. But looking at Eli's numbers again when measured against others of his era he isn't even close.

 

[dkmightyhammer]

Yeah like I said I'm a big ring guy, it really is a measuring stick especially for QBs. But it's not the only measuring stick. Eli and Flacco are 2 of the strangest players I've ever seen. Both are just OK when compared to their peers, they just are, but they have both come up huge in the biggest moments. But looking at Eli's numbers again when measured against others of his era he isn't even close.

Maybe, but look at the competition in his era. Brady, P.Manning, Roethlisberger, Brees, Rodgers, and even Rivers. That is a pretty good group and even if you put Eli 7th behind that group that doesn't necessarily mean he isn't HOF worthy. That entire group might go to the HOF.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Maybe, but look at the competition in his era. Brady, P.Manning, Roethlisberger, Brees, Rodgers, and even Rivers. That is a pretty good group and even if you put Eli 7th behind that group that doesn't necessarily mean he isn't HOF worthy. That entire group might go to the HOF.

From an earlier post. If he had finished 7th behind your list you may have an argument. However....


2005: 23rd
2006: 18th
2007: 25th
2008: 15th
2009: 11th
2010: 17th
2012: 14th
2013: 35th
2014: 15th
2015: 13th
2016: 22nd

 

[dkmightyhammer]

From an earlier post. If he had finished 7th you may have an argument. However....


2005: 23rd
2006: 18th
2007: 25th
2008: 15th
2009: 11th
2010: 17th
2012: 14th
2013: 35th
2014: 15th
2015: 13th
2016: 22nd

What is this stat? QBR? Yards? TDs? Wins? Completion percentage?

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Not my list but I believe it to be QBR. Since when do they list QB stats in terms of wins?

 

[dkmightyhammer]

From an earlier post. If he had finished 7th behind your list you may have an argument. However....


2005: 23rd
2006: 18th
2007: 25th
2008: 15th
2009: 11th
2010: 17th
2012: 14th
2013: 35th
2014: 15th
2015: 13th
2016: 22nd

Ok, so this is QBR. But look deeper at the numbers.

I randomly grabbed one year to look at, 2010.

So you are correct he was 17th in QBR that year, but he was also 5th in passing yards, 9th in completion percentage, and 5th in TD passes. And he won 10 games that season. So he was a top QB that season despite having a 17th ranked QBR (85.3, which isn't terrible).

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Just going back a few years here is Eli's ranking by QBR

2016: 22
2015: 13
2014: 15
2013: 35 (Gulp)
2012: 14
2011: 7
2010: 17

Quarterback Rating By Total and Components: 2016 NFL Season

Pretty damning if you ask me.

 

[dkmightyhammer]

Not my list but I believe it to be QBR. Since when do they list QB stats in terms of wins?

They don't, but the list was vague in what the stat was for. But a QB's win/loss record for their career does matter even though it is more of a team stat.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Ok, so this is QBR. But look deeper at the numbers.

I randomly grabbed one year to look at, 2010.

So you are correct he was 17th in QBR that year, but he was also 5th in passing yards, 9th in completion percentage, and 5th in TD passes. And he won 10 games that season. So he was a top QB that season despite having a 17th ranked QBR (85.3, which isn't terrible).

Dude he had 25 interceptions.

 

[dkmightyhammer]

Dude he had 25 interceptions.

Yes, and this is clearly what dropped his QBR that year. That is the biggest knock on Eli really. He throws a lot of picks.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Yes, and this is clearly what dropped his QBR that year. That is the biggest knock on Eli really. He throws a lot of picks.

And it's a huge knock which is why he has never been a top 10 QB in his time. And again that's the measuring stick from every HOF voter I have heard discuss it. While you are right, this is a golden era for QBs, it's impossible for me to put a guy who is constantly ranked in the teens as even close to a great QB of his era.

 

[dkmightyhammer]

And it's a huge knock which is why he has never been a top 10 QB in his time. And again that's the measuring stick from every HOF voter I have heard discuss it. While you are right, this is a golden era for QBs, it's impossible for me to put a guy who is constantly ranked in the teens as even close to a great QB of his era.

Lots of guys threw a ton of picks and still got in though. Favre, Moon, hell even Peyton Manning has thrown more than Eli.

Look at it this way, Eli is 8th on the all time passing yards leader list, 7th on the all time passing TD list, and 11th all time for wins. Plus he has 2 Superbowl MVPs and has a 199 game ironman streak going. How do you keep a guy like that out of the HOF? It won't happen.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Lots of guys threw a ton of picks and still got in though. Favre, Moon, hell even Peyton Manning has thrown more than Eli.

Look at it this way, Eli is 8th on the all time passing yards leader list, 7th on the all time passing TD list, and 11th all time for wins. Plus he has 2 Superbowl MVPs and has a 199 game ironman streak going. How do you keep a guy like that out of the HOF? It won't happen.

Please please please stop with the "All time" argument. We've been over this already. Passing Johnny Unitas on the all time passing yardage list does not mean he was better, it's a function of games played, passes thrown and the new rules. Peyton and Favre threw more picks because they played longer and their other production offset the picks to some degree.

 

[redseat]

you know damn good and well that if brady only had 2 rings, there would be plenty of your patriot buddies claiming he's a shoo-in, don't kid yourself. and you know what? if he had the stats to back it up with the 2 wins, then so be it, send him in!

I was saying if Brady had the same stats as Eli and only had the 2 Rings would people say it. Meaning, NON Patriots fans.

 

[redseat]

me too....but lets trash Aikman anyways

I so wish he was the one who said, "I want to kiss you" but nope.. damn it!

 

[Ojb81]

I was saying if Brady had the same stats as Eli and only had the 2 Rings would people say it. Meaning, NON Patriots fans.

ah ok gotcha

 

[dkmightyhammer]

Please please please stop with the "All time" argument. We've been over this already. Passing Johnny Unitas on the all time passing yardage list does not mean he was better, it's a function of games played, passes thrown and the new rules. Peyton and Favre threw more picks because they played longer and their other production offset the picks to some degree.

Oh I'm sorry. I thought we were talking about the Hall of fame here.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Sensational work today DK