Eli Manning - HOF?

[soxfan1468927]

That would be incorrect, because statistically, Eli does measure up to current and past QB's in some very important categories...I think you could safely assume at the end of his career, he will land somewhere in the Top 5 or 6 all time in passing yards and I believe the Top 10 guys there are in, or will be in the HOF.......

Well when Rivers passes Tarkenton next year, that will buck that trend.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Passing yards is a function of longevity and of course the rules of today as much as anything. Again you are using Eli's standings on the all time list without considering that most on that list that he is now moving past threw it half as often as Eli and all the QBs of today do. Stop with statistical comparisons with QBs of the past already.

Unless you are prepared to argue that HOF kicker Jan Stenerud and his 66% FG success rate would stand up today you will agree that like Stenerud the way to judge Eli is to compare them with others of their era, not to compare his yardage totals to guys playing 14 games and throwing 18 times a game. As another poster pointed out Eli failed to finish in the top 10 in passer rating every year but once in his entire career. Even if that stat is not true (I didn't bother to confirm) there is no statistical measure that would put Eli Manning on the short list of the top QBs of his era. And no Troy Aikman is not in his era.

It's true, he finished 7th in 2011. The other years, he's finished:

2005: 23rd
2006: 18th
2007: 25th
2008: 15th
2009: 11th
2010: 17th
2012: 14th
2013: 35th
2014: 15th
2015: 13th
2016: 22nd

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Passing yards is a function of longevity and of course the rules of today as much as anything. Again you are using Eli's standings on the all time list without considering that most on that list that he is now moving past threw it half as often as Eli and all the QBs of today do. Stop with statistical comparisons with QBs of the past already.

Unless you are prepared to argue that HOF kicker Jan Stenerud and his 66% FG success rate would stand up today you will agree that like Stenerud the way to judge Eli is to compare them with others of their era, not to compare his yardage totals to guys playing 14 games and throwing 18 times a game. As another poster pointed out Eli failed to finish in the top 10 in passer rating every year but once in his entire career. Even if that stat is not true (I didn't bother to confirm) there is no statistical measure that would put Eli Manning on the short list of the top QBs of his era. And no Troy Aikman is not in his era.

I think we may both agree on "deserving"

We dis-agree on whether it will happen

I'm not so sure voters account for different eras as much as you do, and at the end of the day, they will view his stats and place in history as worthy

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Well when Rivers passes Tarkenton next year, that will buck that trend.

I even think Rivers will in fact be in the discussion though

 

[soxfan1468927]

I even think Rivers will in fact be in the discussion though

I kinda doubt that. I think Fouts and Moon are the only two QBs who are in who never played in a championship game.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

I kinda doubt that. I think Fouts and Moon are the only two QBs who are in who never played in a championship game.

How will Rivers stack up to them statistically?

Seems hes' gonna compile some gaudy looking numbers

 

[soxfan1468927]

How will Rivers stack up to them statistically?

Seems hes' gonna compile some gaudy looking numbers

I guess not horrible. Maybe you're right. But when Fouts retired he was 2nd all time in passing yards and 4th in TDs. Moon was 3rd in yards and 4th in TDs.

 

[PDay8810]

I started watching football when Warren Moon was a rookie playing in Canada. That was 1978. I think my opinion is informed enough.

And yes stats count. I'd say over 90% of the guys in the HOF are at the top 15 to 20 of their positions in stats. HOF voters definitely look at stats. Stats aren't everything but they are a lot of it when considering HOF. My point was Eli (who I'm not a fan of either) beats Aikman across the board in every category that matters for a QB. And in yards and TD's it isn't even close. If Aikman didn't have 3 rings with one of the best teams of all time he wouldn't have sniffed the HOF on his numbers alone. But, he's a Cowboy (which is a huge plus for HOF voters) and he has 3 SB rings, so he's in. Eli has two rings and destroys Aikman's statline, plus he's got that ironman streak going to boot. Eli has started 199 games in a row which is 34 more games than Aikman played total. And I like Aikman by the way so I'm not bashing the guy, but if he can get in with his marginal career (except for SB's) then Eli is a slam dunk. Fantasy football has nothing to do with it, although Eli would probably smoke Aikman there too.

opinions vary for sure. Six one way, half a dozen the other. Stats aren't the deciding factor for me...which is why I said Eli gets in. I think a player is HOF worthy when he plays great when the stage is it's brightest. Many times Staubach threw the ball 20 times a game or less....Bradshaw too. That will forever be my point when today's QB's throw that often in the first half on many occasions and there were more offensive plays per game in the old days. 16 game season vs 14 games or even 12 factors too when talking stat lines....as does clock stoppage on out of bounds. Staubach pulled many great comebacks in his day and he most like wouldn't with the out of bounds clock rules

Aikman is in, as is Namath and Stabler and I have no problem with the selections. I sure don't compare their careers to a Drew Brees type, and no way do I think they were less QB's to the stats of today's Qb's. I'd vote for Russell Wilson should he win 1 or 2 more SB's and his stats will never compare to Eli

as to the bold....pure bull shit unless you can explain how the only two players on the 70's all decade team not in the HOF were both Cowboys while Pittsburgh has 90% of their starters in. Chuck Howley belongs too, but he'll never sniff the HOF unless he buys a ticket. Bob Hayse changed the game as we know it and he only had 65 TD receptions. Kick his ass out when comparing to today's receiver stats.
Darren Woodsen? Maybe after Lynch, Dawkins and a few others get in.

as to the second bolded....I couldn't care less.

1978? Shit, you missed some good football

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

I guess not horrible. Maybe you're right. But when Fouts retired he was 2nd all time in passing yards and 4th in TDs. Moon was 3rd in yards and 4th in TDs.

Yeah, I don't really care, Im not a fan of Rivers and his propensity to shit his pants in the big spot

Was just curious, cause the media heads seem to think he is in the discussion

 

[Clayton]

I'm leaning towards a heavy no (like 90%) because the perception will be that the defense was a big part of the Super Bowl wins.

He needs at least 2 more pro bowl appearances and/or an all pro type year.

 

[molsaniceman]

the good career stats

pass yds 8th may get to 5th
pass tds 7th may get to 6th
4th qt comebacks 6th may get to 5th

and the not so good

passer rating 40th tied with mark brunell
picks 21st may get to 15th (peyton is 9th)
yds per game 15th ahead of tannyhill behind bortles
completion % 43rd tied with fitzpatrick

 

[PDay8810]

I kinda doubt that. I think Fouts and Moon are the only two QBs who are in who never played in a championship game.

I don't think Sonny Jergenson ever started a playoff game.

subjective opinions here to say the least

 

[soxfan1468927]

Yeah, I don't really care, Im not a fan of Rivers and his propensity to shit his pants in the big spot

Was just curious, cause the media heads seem to think he is in the discussion

I guess I don't get into football HOF stuff as much as I do baseball. The media has spoken about him as a potential HOFer? Seems odd to me. He doesn't have the big stats of Manning/Brady/Rodgers/Brees, or the rings of Roethlisberger/Manning. They really going to put 7 QBs from this era in?

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

I'm leaning towards a heavy no (like 90%) because the perception will be that the defense was a big part of the Super Bowl wins.

He needs at least 2 more pro bowl appearances and/or an all pro type year.

Eli was pretty damn good in both the 2007 and 2011 postseason, on the way to the SB

Just sayin

117
133
72 (blizzard in GB)
87 (SB)

129
115
82
104

Were his QB ratings in each of those postseason runs

 

[soxfan1468927]

I don't think Sonny Jergenson ever started a playoff game.

subjective opinions here to say the least

I think you're right. Once again though, he was top 5 in yards and TDs when he retired.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

I guess I don't get into football HOF stuff as much as I do baseball. The media has spoken about him as a potential HOFer? Seems odd to me. He doesn't have the big stats of Manning/Brady/Rodgers/Brees, or the rings of Roethlisberger/Manning. They really going to put 7 QBs from this era in?

Yeah, not sure, I just know ive heard Ben/Manning/Rivers lumped together a lot in HOF type talk

 

[Clayton]

Eli was pretty damn good in both the 2007 and 2011 postseason, on the way to the SB

Just sayin

117
133
72 (blizzard in GB)
87 (SB)

129
115
82
104

Were his QB ratings in each of those postseason runs

Oh, I know. Peyton was also really mediocre in his Super Bowl runs. I've always thought the HoF was more about player respect, though. I think most people see Eli as an average Joe Flacco.

 

[dkmightyhammer]

as to the bold....pure bull shit unless you can explain how the only two players on the 70's all decade team not in the HOF were both Cowboys while Pittsburgh has 90% of their starters in. Chuck Howley belongs too, but he'll never sniff the HOF unless he buys a ticket. Bob Hayse changed the game as we know it and he only had 65 TD receptions. Kick his ass out when comparing to today's receiver stats.
Darren Woodsen? Maybe after Lynch, Dawkins and a few others get in.

as to the second bolded....I couldn't care less.

1978? Shit, you missed some good football

I'm going to concede that the Cowboys have about an average amount of players in the HOF compared with other franchises. I really thought they had way more than they do but I just looked it up and they are about middle of the pack. Green Bay, NYG, Rams, Bears, 49ers, and the Redskins actually have quite a few more. Surprised me to be honest. I don't know why I thought the Cowboys had the most. My bad.

And yes 1978. I may have missed some good football but in my defense I was only 10.

Hall of Famers by Franchise - Hall of Famers | Pro Football Hall of Fame Official Site

 

[soxfan1468927]

Yeah, not sure, I just know ive heard Ben/Manning/Rivers lumped together a lot in HOF type talk

Okay yeah that might come naturally as they all came from the same draft. Easy to say 3 potential HOF quarterbacks in the draft.

 

[PDay8810]

I'm going to concede that the Cowboys have about an average amount of players in the HOF compared with other franchises. I really thought they had way more than they do but I just looked it up and they are about middle of the pack. Green Bay, NYG, Rams, Bears, 49ers, and the Redskins actually have quite a few more. Surprised me to be honest. I don't know why I thought the Cowboys had the most. My bad.

And yes 1978. I may have missed some good football but in my defense I was only 10.

Hall of Famers by Franchise - Hall of Famers | Pro Football Hall of Fame Official Site

it's just opinions here guy.
I don't consider mine any more valuable than yours.