Eagles Have 83 Million Invested In Their QB's

[Manster7588]

You still have yet to explain in 3 pages what negatives you are seeing...


A.. Doesn't hurt cap space now or in the future.

1 the signing of Bradford and Daniel when the plan all along was to trade up for Wentz. It's been stated quite a few times on here if it was just Bradford or Daniels along with Wentz and some cap money spent elsewhere there wouldn't be this argument. Personally if I were trading for Wentz it would be Daniels signed not Bradford.
2. Trading the future for a D2 QB, I seriously question the trade for Wentz not the picking of him.

Oh by the way I stated this same thing earlier, so stop with your You still have yet to explain in 3 pages what negatives you are seeing... BULLSHIT

Now go DEFEND the BRAND

 

[Rockinkuwait]

And again, are you reading what I'm writing or just making assumptions. I just said it's a dumb angle. Never mind. You obviously aren't interested in a discussion on the topic

AGAIN... what does it matter to you? What makes this such a bad move? I can see if they signed Bradford AFTER the other moves. Or if this was negatively affecting their cap space or letting their own FA's they wanted to walk. But if that doesn't happen, what has you spending 3 pages complaining about this?

 

[jarntt]

Ok... my point is right or wrong... What does it matter??? Doesn't hurt the cap space, they are still good on that.

And before the Wentz signing they were one of the bottom half teams in the league in $ at the QB position. I have NO issue moving up to take Wentz after that. If he pans out, nobody will care what they spent on the others, just like Seattle? If he doesn't it will be about Wentz busting.

But it does hurt the cap space. Just because you had room isn't the entire picture. It's the opportunity cost. It's what else you could have done with those same dollars. Refer to my question I wrote above:

"OK, so are you a better team as is or with Osemele instead of Brooks and Daniels who is now your 3rd string QB?"

 

[jarntt]

3 pages seems to be responding to you. Looked like everyone agreed it was a poor move.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I thought he was going to be competing for the starting job at the time... Again, I could care less if we have ample cap space for the deal (we did and do still). Sure looking back today you can say that was a bad deal. But at the time, going all in on Chase wasn't enough for me (not sure why you think it is).. bring in a QB to bridge if that doesn't work, and since they could easily afford Sam under their cap, I am ok with him being the one based on who was out there.

Again, that's fine... Lurie lost some money. meh.

Let's say Bradford was not resigned...Daniels hasn't done enough in this league imo to be the cure all, so I would've thought a high draft pick on a QB was forth coming. Investing that much in a QB after resigning Bradford (even one with his health history is where I get lost in this.

I understand they had the cap space to do it, but it just wreaks of mismanagement. What happened here was they hired a new HC that had a history with Daniels and said HC was not 100% comfortable with Bradford so they made the call for Daniels and I'm sure they weren't the only ones that called so they made sure they got him.

If the contract wasn't so high, it would be fairly easy to move him...now...he's theirs for this season at least.

 

[Manster7588]

Gotcha. I thought it was like Joe Theisman or some other QB with initials JT but knew Theisman was ND

I really had no clue who JT O'Sullivan was until Rockinkuwait said he was a D2 QB who panned out in the NFL.

 

[jarntt]

awww are your feelings hurt??? OK I take it back.. you aren't a troll. heres a tissue or whatever.

Dude...you don't even make any sense. I was trying to have a discussion and you get all upset for God knows what reason. Now the tissue comment...whatever dude. You obviously don't want to discuss it, you want to defend it. Later

 

[Rockinkuwait]

What? that's great if you WANT to trade up... but waiting through free agency on the hope that MAYBE they can work that out (remember they wanted to do the same last year but couldn't) leaves you with nothing if it doesn't work out.

It's like you think that since it happened, they knew all along that it would... That isn't real life. Again, if they could go back and say "hey we will get that trade" then cool, only take one, but their time machine must have been broken.

And that's fine questioning Wentz... I've never said he'll for sure work out (so you can stop the defend the brand thing). I am saying I am fine taking a top prospect at QB when you don't have one. And just about all you can name your reason you don't think they will work out..

 

[Rockinkuwait]

I really had no clue who JT O'Sullivan was until Rockinkuwait said he was a D2 QB who panned out in the NFL.

wow you aren't letting that go are you. should I repeat why I brought it up, or are you going to keep trolling that one along? lol

 

[Rockinkuwait]

6351"]Dude...you don't even make any sense. I was trying to have a discussion and you get all upset for God knows what reason. Now the tissue comment...whatever dude. You obviously don't want to discuss it, you want to defend it. Later[/QUOTE]

Because you keep looking at it like all three moves happened at the same time.

When they went for Bradford, fine.. But not happy with him as the ONLY QB going forward. No issue bringing in Chase too as the QB with potential upside to unseat him. They can afford it and not sold on any of the FA class 100% enough to just pick one.

When they decided to go for Wentz, I am fine with them not letting their current guys detract them from going after the one they thought had the best shot at being a franchise QB.

That's it. I am glad it didn't hurt our cap, I am glad we were still able to sign our guys we wanted and bring in some good players to help out other positions of need.

If they overspent. Oh well, as long as we aren't hurting cap wise, not a major area of concern for me.

 

[Manster7588]

What? that's great if you WANT to trade up... but waiting through free agency on the hope that MAYBE they can work that out (remember they wanted to do the same last year but couldn't) leaves you with nothing if it doesn't work out.

It's like you think that since it happened, they knew all along that it would... That isn't real life. Again, if they could go back and say "hey we will get that trade" then cool, only take one, but their time machine must have been broken.

And that's fine questioning Wentz... I've never said he'll for sure work out (so you can stop the defend the brand thing). I am saying I am fine taking a top prospect at QB when you don't have one. And just about all you can name your reason you don't think they will work out..

Your team management has stated they told Bradford the plan was to trade up for a QB. As stated a few times individually these moves can make sense adding the three moves together doesn't, that's all we are trying to say.

As for Wentz I waned him in Dallas long before he shot up the boards, when he got to the top of the board I am on written record I didn't want Dallas to trade up for him, if he fell to 4 I wouldn't be upset if Dallas chose him, but he wouldn't have been my choice there. To much of an unknown to mortgage the future on.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

I guess I am more ok with what they did over making Chase the only option for sure that they would have, and hope they could move up to get Wentz. In hindsight, sure it would be nice to have a slightly better rated guard in FA than Bradford. Or just the cash.

But until the #2 trade was made it was just that. Hope. Hope and Chase isn’t enough for me at that position IF you have the cash and cap space readily available to do more. ANY other position, I hate those moves and that money. Only at QB am I ok overspending, overdrafting, oversigning. I've stuck to that on here be it the Eagles, or any other team. If you don't have a franchise QB, I am fine if you do everything you can for one within reason. Obviously within reason with the Eagles cap space. Before Wentz they were in the bottom half of the league in QB spending. I am fine if they invest more trying to get a franchise QB.

You bring up the plan was to move up. It was last year too. Teams every year try to move up and down in the draft, sometimes it works out too. You saw how much faith Bradford put into that actually happening right? Listen to GM's talk and that's all they talk about after the fact. How they tried to get up to this guy or that and weren't able to. No way in hell I throw the future of the QB position on the hope that they can trade up like that unless I absolutely have to.

It’s only when you look at the results in hindsight where you wish you could go back and maybe not sign Sam. Whatever. I agree, but could care less since that’s asking to know the future which isn’t possible. Just glad the signing isn't some crippling move or we didn't cut a guy we wanted to make it happen. Without that... it's really a back burner non-story to me. Oh my you overpaid! as the cap jumps another 10% is the most tired story I think in the NFL and seems to be more of a fan of a rival team that always makes that something big. Sure there are occasional times a team will get themselves truly in a dire cap situation (NO lately), but it's so few and far between and people throw that thing out every day it seems when talking about a rival. To me, that's one of the most over-used lines. It gets old quick.

I am still fine spending that in between backup/starter money on Chase. I want Wentz to have everything he can to be successful and if that's a proven backup who knows the system, coach, play calls, etc over the past couple years... no problem.

So really Sam is the only issue, and I've said in hindsight it would be cool if they didn't sign him knowing they successfully moved up to #2 a couple months later. But, the consequences of that are small... Philly had a lot of cap space, and I am fine when a team with no real direction at the time and a new coach doesn't go out throwing out big money at everyone in that first off-season, especially with how hard it is to judge talent in the previous system on the team (ask the Rams/Foles).

I will say I am not anything close to being a good college scout. If the majority of the scouting guys call him a top prospect at QB, that is all I am going on, to change my mind there, I would need someone proven to be better. Yes there will be worries about a player if his name isn't Elway, Manning, Luck or Leaf... Where he's an elite prospect, and even there you can't be sure (Leaf). Be it size, injury, big games, lack of time, scheme, height, off-field stuff, hand size, athleticism, arm strength... Everything has caused a QB to bust and then the next time a QB with that issue comes out and is drafted high, people bash him for the guy before and he tears it up and it's not an issue. It's not like arm length for a blindside tackle. If you stay away from the partying QB's sure, you don't end up wasting a pick on Manziel. You also don't get Favre.

I can't say DII QB's overplay or underplay their average draft position vs. D1A QB's and from what I am seeing even though you are not giving up on that line, neither can you. If we had O'sullivan not playing at a 6th round level, or Kitna/Warner not playing at a UDFA level, or McNair busting, then we are on to something. But it seems more like "I don't know, and it doesn't seem to be, but want it to be true". You can throw in those tiny IAA type schools, like Flacco, Gannon, Phil Simms, Delhomme, and Kaep have come from... but I don't see a big difference in failures in draft position based on school/NCAA division/conference strength. If you'd like to use that as a point, fine, but without any fact backing it up, sorry if I pass on really digging into that belief.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

Jon Kitna was another, JT O'Sullivan the only other I can think of off the top of my head.

Kitna was decent I guess. I think you get my point. Successful D2 QB's are hard to find in the NFL. I just don't know if Wentz is the guy to bet the farm on.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

Kitna was decent I guess. I think you get my point. Successful D2 QB's are hard to find in the NFL. I just don't know if Wentz is the guy to bet the farm on.

Actually can you name the ones who didn't play up to the levels expected of them? I think we are finding that NFL level D II QB's don't come around often, but when they do they tend to way overplay their draft positions.


And so are DIAA's and so are under 6'2" and so are under 11" hands, and so are guys with off-field issues and all these other reasons guys fail, and every year a top talent has one of those issues and he booms or busts.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

I don’t know… Earlier in the year it was all the Chip guys like Maxwell, Murray, Sanchez, Kiko, etc.. and how philly would be stuck with them forever or have to take these huge cap hits and such and either be stuck with them or unable to spend a dime and be over the cap. And I looked through the contracts, the cap situation and such and it didn’t look nearly as dire and got blasted for saying that (Why I rarely talk my own team here). Then a few months later. Philly moved those players, spend 120 mil in new contracts in FA, and has a nice cap buffer heading into cap and it is the reality of the situation not the fear mongering.

This feels more like that. I’m going off this thread… not really an issue I see that can cause any major damage realistically. But it’s one of those attention getters. The Kardashians of threads if you will. Balloon the guaranteed money to new levels. Bring up the issue in hindsight like they knew all along…

The only real risk is giving up all that for Wentz, which comes down to can he play or not. And nothing here is coming close to selling me one way or the other with facts based on him and his situation.


So enjoy your thread guys.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

Actually can you name the ones who didn't play up to the levels expected of them? I think we are finding that NFL level D II QB's don't come around often, but when they do they tend to way overplay their draft positions.


And so are DIAA's and so are under 6'2" and so are under 11" hands, and so are guys with off-field issues and all these other reasons guys fail, and every year a top talent has one of those issues and he booms or busts.

You can spin it however you want. I was simply stating my opinion. I didn't think it was a good move. Maybe he turns out to be great. Time will tell.

 

[Lance Armstrong]

I for one am very excited with the eagles moves. All that cap $$ on QB's, getting raped in a trade for Wentz, keep it up philly.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Like I said this deal was a lot closer to Whitehurst than Flynn. And it's funny how all of a sudden you think Bradford is this healthy 16 game franchise QB that has a lock on the starting QB position. When did that revision happen? Daniels wasn't paid starter money.

The reason I brought up Lurie is that is the only negative effect here. Like I said, this year the Eagles were able to re-sign who they wanted, add who they wanted, and still have plenty of cap space for rookies and more late camp moves..

If this is a big deal, it's because Lurie is spending money he could be saving in his wallet. That seems to be your issue, is that he spent more of his money than you think he had to. I don't know what other offers were out there any more than you from the other 3 teams that contacted him. If you can tell me their offers, then we can determine what is too much. It's kind of funny, how people seem to know this better than the actual GM's based on.... oh yeah, nothing at all. Like all those saying "Oh Brock should take that Denver deal, it's fine.." and in actuality we saw it wasn't close to his real value.

But if 7 mil a year gets Daniels to show Wentz the system he will be running and 5 mil doesn't... I am ok with 2 mil more invested in a position that could greatly influence how well Wentz adapts to the NFL and Pederson's system.

You're missing my point and has nothing to do with Laurie's overall wallet. It has to do more with cap space savings rolled over into next season. Yes they spent money in areas for upgrades but did they spend the correct money on the QB position? My opinion is no. Too much spent for a below average fragile QB and too much spent on for a back up QB. Save as much as you can cause Fletcher Cox is going to command big money to go along with draft picks, resigning other players and bringing in a couple of FA's. Howie has made some good off season moves in getting rid of trash and in turn getting a very high draft pick, but he can also be critiqued about some of the contracts being handed out. You disagreeing makes for a good discussion.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Giving up that much for a division 2 QB is a huge risk. Maybe it works out, but with that many holes on the Eagles, giving up that much for potential is a way over the top if you ask me.

Serious question - How many division 2 QB's have actually panned out in the NFL? I don't know the answer. The only one that is note worthy that I can think of is Steve McNair (RIP). I know there is more that I am missing.

I too can not answer your question. It's a massive risk indeed, but the biggest hole on the Eagles is at the QB position. We all know what Bradford is and that's average at best where he could win you 6 to 8 games and still out of the playoffs and possibly out of the top 10 come draft time. If Weintz pans out, biggest piece filled and hope the FO does their job to fill in the rest. Weintz fails, back in the top 7 and draft another QB and start the process over.

 

[flyerhawk]

Michael Bennett had quite a bit to say about Sam Bradford..

Seahawks' Bennett won't hold out, rips Bradford

"I listened to Sam Bradford again. I just almost threw up," Bennett said. "I can't believe Sam Bradford is complaining about making $40 million in the next two years, and because he actually has to compete for a position. This guy, this guy right here definitely sets a bad tone of what a player should be.

"If I was his teammate ... how can you play with a guy that doesn't want to compete at a high level and feels like his position should be solidified without even putting up the stats or the wins to back that up?"

Can't really argue with anything he says.