Dwight Howard sucks

[LogicMan]

Can understand your emotions

 

[Inimical]

Funny thing about the anti Dwight fans is they never compare shaqs offense game to Dwight's

Of course, that would take emotion out of debate

Can you do this for me then please?

 

[LogicMan]

The dude is playing well, just not for you.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

Shaq had touch on his hook shots and actually had post moves for one.

 

[Inimical]

The dude is playing well, just not for you.

No no no i mean about this

Funny thing about the anti Dwight fans is they never compare shaqs offense game to Dwight's

Of course, that would take emotion out of debate

please enlighten us.

The dude is playing well, just not for you.

No no no i never said he wasn't playing well. I said a bunch of things its all there somewhere.

 

[Inimical]

Shaq had touch on his hook shots and actually had post moves for one.

Yeah i agree. I also want to see what logic has to say about their games cause he brought it into the conversation, some kind of point he was trying to make.

 

[LogicMan]

lets not make shaq into kareem guys, easy..............

Shaq was a 330lb behemoth who was very efficient at nearly .600. You guys might not remember but in those days the double team was not as much (albeit he was a good passer imo, not great, but good). He could score by hop bumping on people 30 % lighter than him. Watch some videos. He was never a finesse offensive scorer, and yes neither is Dwight.

So in case you dont remember Shaqs game thats my point.

Shaq took 3 or 4 years in LA to win his first title. He did not get the team to the promised land in year 1 which somehow some expected in LA with Dwight.

How old was Shaq when he won his first title? Hmmmm, same age as Dwight is this year.

Like I said, people are upset he left. I get it. But Dwight is a heck of a player, who player injured for you all, and then left getting thrown under the bus by LA org.

Its about emotion

 

[OutlawImmortal]

lets not make shaq into kareem guys, easy..............

Shaq was a 330lb behemoth who was very efficient at nearly .600. You guys might not remember but in those days the double team was not as much (albeit he was a good passer imo, not great, but good). He could score by hop bumping on people 30 % lighter than him. Watch some videos. He was never a finesse offensive scorer, and yes neither is Dwight.

So in case you dont remember Shaqs game thats my point.

Shaq took 3 or 4 years in LA to win his first title. He did not get the team to the promised land in year 1 which somehow some expected in LA with Dwight.

How old was Shaq when he won his first title? Hmmmm, same age as Dwight is this year.

Like I said, people are upset he left. I get it. But Dwight is a heck of a player, who player injured for you all, and then left getting thrown under the bus by LA org.

Its about emotion

When Howard can hit a hook shot that's farther than 2 feet away from the basket then call me, till then you should probably stick to soap operas, you seem to be very in tune with your emotional side.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

Shaq through his first 8 seasons averaged 25+ PPG, Howard is averaging 18 PPG in his 8 years in the league. I'm sure the amount of 30+ and 40+ point games from Shaq totally eclipses Howard. Why there is even a comparison, I don't know.

 

[DJ Fieri]

I'd take 'Zo over Howard.

 

[Inimical]

lets not make shaq into kareem guys, easy..............

Shaq was a 330lb behemoth who was very efficient at nearly .600. You guys might not remember but in those days the double team was not as much (albeit he was a good passer imo, not great, but good). He could score by hop bumping on people 30 % lighter than him. Watch some videos. He was never a finesse offensive scorer, and yes neither is Dwight.

So in case you dont remember Shaqs game thats my point.

Shaq took 3 or 4 years in LA to win his first title. He did not get the team to the promised land in year 1 which somehow some expected in LA with Dwight.

How old was Shaq when he won his first title? Hmmmm, same age as Dwight is this year.

Like I said, people are upset he left. I get it. But Dwight is a heck of a player, who player injured for you all, and then left getting thrown under the bus by LA org.

Its about emotion

I suppose by finesse i mean touch. My bad. But to me completely different offensively. I really dont see how they could be compared except for the fact that they are both huge and overpowering. Other then that there is no comparison. And rightfully so. And no, Shaq was a great passer. Like, thats not even debatable, for a Center he was the shit lol. And no its not about emotion. And i think Outlaw hit the nail on the head, you kinda went off the rails there with your remarks.

 

[LogicMan]

Nope, you guys just hate that he left.

When you argue Shaq's points advantage per game, take a look at how many shots per game he averaged to get those points vs Howard. Howard is damn efficient! He just does not shoot as much as Shaq did.

Shaq took almost twice as many shots per game during his peak years.twice as Dwight!

They are not the same size either. Dont start adding 75 pounds onto Dwight....it aint there. Maybe that make him a better rebounder and defensive player, even with less weight.

ok, we all get it, Dwight left. But lets stop making the league leader in doubles doubles to be so horrible.

Its similar to the anti Kobe and anti Lebron peeps. Emotions

 

[trojanfan12]

What exactly do you want to see him add to his game that he can add? You mention the free throws like that's somthing he can fix. He can't. Shaq couldn't hit them and Wilt couldn't either. Some guys with big hands never can. It was proven in LA that he practiced them more than any other Lakers at the time.

Free throws are absolutely something he can fix. It's not rocket science. It just requires practice and technique. No one is saying that Howard will ever be a 90% free throw shooter, but I don't think 60-65% is too much to ask. Also, while Shaq certainly never even became a good free throw shooter, he reached the point where the "Hack-a-Shaq" stopped working, so teams stopped using it. "Hack-a-Howard" still works great, therefore, he can't be in at the end of close games. And if you're trying to claim that Howard was practicing free throws more with the Lakers than anyone else, you need to back away from the crack pipe. When a career 90% free throw shooter offers to help you and your response is "no thanks", you're not taking it very seriously.

Another thing people need to realize is the NBA game is different now than when Shaq and Barkley patroled the paint. The zone defences allow guys to easily double team now since they don't have to stay with a man. Both McHale and Phil Jackson have talked about this. Big men don't have the space they used to have in the paint now. This is why a lot of the post game is gone with centers now. In Orlando Van Gundy compensated by spacing the floor with 4 guys out on the 3 point line.

Shaq was doubled and tripled all of the time. It didn't work because Shaq had actual post moves, something Dwight lacks. Which is another thing that Dwight could add to his game. When Kobe realized that he was getting older and couldn't play the same style that he used to, he went to Houston and learned post moves from Hakeem and you could see an immediate difference when he played in the post. Supposedly, Dwight has worked with both McHale and Hakeem, yet he looks no different than he did in Orlando.

I think Howard is getting what he can out of his 6'10 frame. He's not Shaq. Laker fans talking about Howard remind me a lot of the Kobe haters. Only focusing on the negatives.

So, Lakers fans opinions about Dwight don't matter because he left? What has been said about Dwight by Lakers fans are obvious flaws in his game that most experts have also pointed out. Yet somehow they aren't valid because he left? What a bullshit argument. You can't dispute what has been said about his game from a basketball perspective, so you stoop to that?

And "getting what he can out of his 6'10" frame"?!? Seriously?!? We're not talking about Brian Scalabrine here, are we? From a pure talent perspective, Dwight is arguably the most athletically gifted center to ever play. He hasn't done the work to maximize his talent. So no, he 's not "getting what he can out of his 6'10" frame", not even close.

 

[MrHoople]

So, Lakers fans opinions about Dwight don't matter because he left? What has been said about Dwight by Lakers fans are obvious flaws in his game that most experts have also pointed out. Yet somehow they aren't valid because he left? What a bullshit argument. You can't dispute what has been said about his game from a basketball perspective, so you stoop to that?

And "getting what he can out of his 6'10" frame"?!? Seriously?!? We're not talking about Brian Scalabrine here, are we? From a pure talent perspective, Dwight is arguably the most athletically gifted center to ever play. He hasn't done the work to maximize his talent. So no, he 's not "getting what he can out of his 6'10" frame", not even close.

Just about everything you say is wrong even after I pointed out what is wrong in your arguments you keep saying the same factually incorrect things. It's a waste of time discussing it further. You aren't basing what you are saying on fact. It's like talking to Kobe haters.

It's a waste of time to debate further on this with Laker fans. The bottom line is that your team would be much better if you guys kept him or at least traded him for something. The Lakers have extremely dumb management in charge now so good luck in the future.

 

[Inimical]

Just about everything you say is wrong even after I pointed out what is wrong in your arguments you keep saying the same factually incorrect things. It's a waste of time discussing it further. You aren't basing what you are saying on fact. It's like talking to Kobe haters.

It's a waste of time to debate further on this with Laker fans. The bottom line is that your team would be much better if you guys kept him or at least traded him for something. The Lakers have extremely dumb management in charge now so good luck in the future.

All you said was he worked with Hakeem and there are more zone defenses now. Skillset is still shit on Howard offensively. He relies on his athleticism. To hear anyone make excuses for a mammoth of a man with that much athleticism befuddles me. Befuddled i say!

 

[trojanfan12]

Just about everything you say is wrong even after I pointed out what is wrong in your arguments you keep saying the same factually incorrect things. It's a waste of time discussing it further. You aren't basing what you are saying on fact. It's like talking to Kobe haters.

It's a waste of time to debate further on this with Laker fans. The bottom line is that your team would be much better if you guys kept him or at least traded him for something. The Lakers have extremely dumb management in charge now so good luck in the future.

In other words, you know you're wrong and just can't admit it. Everything I posted is correct, bigs who have actually played in the NBA agree with what I said. You have presented zero facts to back up the excuses you make for Dwight not having improved his post game and free throw shooting.

And what the hell does Lakers management have to do with Dwight's lack of improvement? Further proof that you know you're wrong. You can't even stick to the topic at hand.

"He's doing all he can with his 6'10" frame" - Mr. Hoople

 

[MrHoople]

In other words, you know you're wrong and just can't admit it. Everything I posted is correct, bigs who have actually played in the NBA agree with what I said. You have presented zero facts to back up the excuses you make for Dwight not having improved his post game and free throw shooting.

And what the hell does Lakers management have to do with Dwight's lack of improvement? Further proof that you know you're wrong. You can't even stick to the topic at hand.

"He's doing all he can with his 6'10" frame" - Mr. Hoople

I was pretty clear on my points especially about Lakers management not getting anything back for Dwight or losing him in the first place. I in no way tied that comment in with Dwight's improvement which shows why you are a waste of time to debate with. You ignore the points that are made and don't address them and others you try to twist like you just did there.


Laker fans don't like Dwight. We get it. He left and proved that not everyone wants to be a Laker just like all of the big name free agents blowing off the Lakers this summer proved it. Lakers fans will always hate Dwight now because he made reality crash in on their sub-conscious in a painful way. So it's a waste of time to debate this subject with you guys. Just like the Kobe haters are a waste of time to debate.

 

[Inimical]

In other words, you know you're wrong and just can't admit it. Everything I posted is correct, bigs who have actually played in the NBA agree with what I said. You have presented zero facts to back up the excuses you make for Dwight not having improved his post game and free throw shooting.

And what the hell does Lakers management have to do with Dwight's lack of improvement? Further proof that you know you're wrong. You can't even stick to the topic at hand.

"He's doing all he can with his 6'10" frame" - Mr. Hoople

Generally speaking people ignore points and go off into their own direction grasping at straws Trojan.

I wish there was a point, counter point debate class on SportsHoopla.

 

[Inimical]

I was pretty clear on my points especially about Lakers management not getting anything back for Dwight or losing him in the first place. I in no way tied that comment in with Dwight's improvement which shows why you are a waste of time to debate with. You ignore the points that are made and don't address them and others you try to twist like you just did there.


Laker fans don't like Dwight. We get it. He left and proved that not everyone wants to be a Laker just like all of the big name free agents blowing off the Lakers this summer proved it. Lakers fans will always hate Dwight now because he made reality crash in on their sub-conscious in a painful way. So it's a waste of time to debate this subject with you guys. Just like the Kobe haters are a waste of time to debate.

Most Laker fans hate Dwight for being a fucking baby. But then again you didnt pick up the newspaper everyday and roll your eyes at another story of him making no effort, then complaining and bickering about shit. Bottom line is he hasnt grown up and he needed to be coddled. If he had any mental fortitude he would be on the Lakers right now and who knows how the roster looks. But im glad he left, watching him mail it in was enraging.

 

[MrHoople]

[/B]


Most Laker fans hate Dwight for being a fucking baby. But then again you didnt pick up the newspaper everyday and roll your eyes at another story of him making no effort, then complaining and bickering about shit. Bottom line is he hasnt grown up and he needed to be coddled. If he had any mental fortitude he would be on the Lakers right now and who knows how the roster looks. But im glad he left, watching him mail it in was enraging.

He actually shouldn't even have been playing. A GSW player tore his Labrum and was out for the season around the same time. Howard played through it even without getting a training camp from his back surgery. The guy showed up and played and then his Labrum was torn. He missed minimal time with that and played through it.

Yet the team wasn't that good and he took all of the blame while Kobe played ZERO defence and his man constantly cost the Lakers on plays.

"watching him mail it in was enraging"

For a guy that mailed it in, he did pretty well considering his injuries and no training camp. He still lead the league in rebounds. I'm sure if he was healthy the whole season he would have done even more. But leading the league in rebounds is an accomplishment many guys wish they could make.

I think the biggest thing that hurt Howard's career was going to Orlando and taking on the label Superman. The comparisons to Shaq started immediately who was the previous Superman in Orlando. That put a burden of accomplishment on him that was hard to fulfil. Then when he went to the Lakers like Shaq it was inevitable that Laker fans would become frustrated in that they weren't getting Shaq 2. Truthfully under the new rules in place now even Shaq would have struggles today. It's a different game in the paint now.

What about comparing Howard to a guy like BenWallace who was another less than 7 foot Center who was a defensive presence and DPOY and rebounder. Nobody talks about Wallace like he was a failure. Would Howard winning 1 ring like Wallace give him a pass? They were close to the same player except Wallace didn't give much offence. Dwight was unfortunate in that he was instead compared to Shaq his whole career.