Does TO get in next year in his first year on the ballot?

[ducky]

No. Rice just played forever. Had the benefit of playing with two of the greatest QB's ever, Montana and Young. Also, a 3 time all pro in Rich Gannon at the peak of his career.

If you recall, he left SF because TO came onto the scene and Rice's ego wouldn't let him play second fiddle to the better WR. Not to take away from Rice completely. He was very good for a very long time.

The difference is TO, Moss and CJ are every defensive coach's game plan to stop and simply couldn't because they were so dominant.

Rice and Harrison were great route runners with amazing supporting casts. SF had probably the greatest team of all time. Harrison had arguably the greatest QB to ever play in the prime of his career. Same thing with Holt and Bruce, everyone had to worry about Marshall Faulk while they were running rampant against 1 on 1 coverage.

Moss had trash QB's most of his career, when he got Brady.... He set records.
TO had Young at the end of his career. He had Mcnabb and Romo. Those guys wont even reach the hall of fame ballot.
CJ had Kitna, Orvlosky and Stafford.

How old are you? You can't be old enough to remember Rice in his prime. Dude was more than just a good route runner. He was one of the biggest game breakers the league has ever seen.

Rice lead the league in receiving yards 6 times. He also lead the league in rec TD's 6 times.

Terrell Owens never lead the league in receiving yards. He lead the league in rec TD's 3 times.

The two aren't even comparable. Rice was undoubtedly the greatest of his generation and there wasn't even a close 2nd. He was putting up numbers in an era where passing was not what it is today.

Jerry did play until he was 41. Long time. However if he would have retired at age 37 like TO did, he still would have had 2000+ more yards over his career than TO did (and every other WR in the history of the game).

My guess is that you are only old enough to remember post-injury Jerry Rice who came back after missing a full season at the age of 35 and was still good enough to play at a high level in this league. The Rice before that injury was a game breaker.

If 1987 season hadn't been strike shortened, it easily would have been the best season in the history of the sport. In 12 games Rice had 22 TD's. That's nuts.

Quite honestly, if someone isn't willing to say Jerry is the greatest WR to ever play the game, they don't know crap about football. Sure Moss might have had more pure talent (TO didn't), but no one put together talent and hard work like Rice did and it will be a LONG time before you get to see a WR who is the most talented in the league also be the hardest worker in the league like Rice was. Arguing that there is a WR better than Rice is like arguing against the theory of gravity.

 

[HammerDown]

HOF is about more than just your play on the field. It is about your overall contributions to the game. It's why there are plenty of people in the HOF that never played football.

The fact that he imploded one team is going to be pretty damn relevant when they are discussing whether to vote for him.

Which team did TO implode?

Brett Favre was the biggest attention whore, gloryhound prima donna bitch athlete you'll ever see in your life. He single handedly set two entire franchises back a decade.

That's different, right?

 

[HammerDown]

How old are you? You can't be old enough to remember Rice in his prime. Dude was more than just a good route runner. He was one of the biggest game breakers the league has ever seen.

Rice lead the league in receiving yards 6 times. He also lead the league in rec TD's 6 times.

Terrell Owens never lead the league in receiving yards. He lead the league in rec TD's 3 times.

The two aren't even comparable. Rice was undoubtedly the greatest of his generation and there wasn't even a close 2nd. He was putting up numbers in an era where passing was not what it is today.

Jerry did play until he was 41. Long time. However if he would have retired at age 37 like TO did, he still would have had 2000+ more yards over his career than TO did (and every other WR in the history of the game).

My guess is that you are only old enough to remember post-injury Jerry Rice who came back after missing a full season at the age of 35 and was still good enough to play at a high level in this league. The Rice before that injury was a game breaker.

If 1987 season hadn't been strike shortened, it easily would have been the best season in the history of the sport. In 12 games Rice had 22 TD's. That's nuts.

Quite honestly, if someone isn't willing to say Jerry is the greatest WR to ever play the game, they don't know crap about football. Sure Moss might have had more pure talent (TO didn't), but no one put together talent and hard work like Rice did and it will be a LONG time before you get to see a WR who is the most talented in the league also be the hardest worker in the league like Rice was. Arguing that there is a WR better than Rice is like arguing against the theory of gravity.

TO had much more talent. No one seriously debates that fact.

 

[HammerDown]

When Carter retired he was 2nd on the list of receiving yards all time and 2nd all time in TD's all time. TO is 2nd and 3rd now (and just like Carter TO won't be that high much longer). Carter was an 8 time pro bowler. TO was a 6 time pro bowler.

I agree that TO had more talent but Carter had just as good of a resume at the time as TO has now.

Edit: Wait!!!! Did you just say Rice was in a tier below TO, Moss and CJ?
That must be a typo.

Quit honestly you have no business in this discussion if you don't put Jerry Rice as the greatest WR to ever play the game. That point is absolutely inarguable.

So Cris Carter is right there with TO but Rice is clearly above TO.

Dude, seriously.

 

[Wamu]

Which team did TO implode?

Brett Favre was the biggest attention whore, gloryhound prima donna bitch athlete you'll ever see in your life. He single handedly set two entire franchises back a decade.

That's different, right?

How about the Eagles? During the '05 season TO was suspended for 4 games & then deactivated for the rest of the season.

 

[HammerDown]

How about the Eagles? During the '05 season TO was suspended for 4 games & then deactivated for the rest of the season.

And that caused the team to implode?

You're joking, right?

 

[Wamu]

And that caused the team to implode?

You're joking, right?

I'm not sure. I just have never like that arrogant jackass TO. No doubt he was a helluva WR though.

 

[HammerDown]

I'm not sure. I just have never like that arrogant jackass TO. No doubt he was a helluva WR though.

No one likes him but the extreme double standard is puzzling.

Trying to diminish his talent is what really baffles me though. Why?!

 

[Wamu]

No one likes him but the extreme double standard is puzzling.

Trying to diminish his talent is what really baffles me though. Why?!

I agree. His career #'s don't lie. And why try to diminish what he did when it's much easier to point out how much of an idiot he was during his career?

 

[Lakers+USC=#1]

HOF is about more than just your play on the field. It is about your overall contributions to the game. It's why there are plenty of people in the HOF that never played football.

The fact that he imploded one team is going to be pretty damn relevant when they are discussing whether to vote for him.

I already know, that it's what you contribute to the game.

If you want to bring in character, then half of the HOF's should not be in.

 

[ducky]

So Cris Carter is right there with TO but Rice is clearly above TO.

Dude, seriously.

You need to read better. In no way did I say Carter was on Rice's level. Rice is a level that no one else is on. A few of these guys might have been as talented as Rice (maybe even more raw physical talent even) but no one was even close to Rice when it came to working and perfectly the art of being a WR in the NFL.

 

[ducky]

TO had much more talent. No one seriously debates that fact.

I do.

Being a great WR is about way more than being able to run fast and jump high. That is an extremely small part of the equation when it comes to being a great WR that casual fans way to often over-emphasis. TO was great but he wasn't the catcher of the football Rice was, he wasn't the route runner, he didn't have the YAC ability Rice did and he most certainly didn't have the drive to be the perfectionist that Rice had.

No one in their right mind would say I want TO on my team over Jerry Rice. It's laughable to even think that someone might say that.

 

[Xponentialchaos]

I'm not sure why this is even being discussed. Jerry Rice was easily a better player than Terrell Owens.

People get way too obsessed with physical talent. Physically, Terrell Owens is an absolute beast that very few players, Jerry included, can match. But physical talent isn't everything. Jerry Rice's work ethic is what made him great. Nobody comes close to that.

 

[idontgetoregon]

It's unimportant whether he does or not.he won't be remembered as anything other than an interesting statistic. Plenty of guys who earned it never get in

 

[Rollingthndr]

Quite honestly, if someone isn't willing to say Jerry is the greatest WR to ever play the game, they don't know crap about football. Sure Moss might have had more pure talent (TO didn't), but no one put together talent and hard work like Rice did and it will be a LONG time before you get to see a WR who is the most talented in the league also be the hardest worker in the league like Rice was.

I'm not saying Rice was garbage or anything like that. I'm saying he had longevity and health on his side. Not to mention a couple hall of famers and a three time all pro, chucking him the rock all his career. He made them better QB's as well as it works both ways but Rice ALWAYS had talent around him. Also, the fact that he padded his stats till he was 41.

The fact that you are questioning TO's work ethic shows you are blinded by his persona and ego. TO's work ethic was 2nd to none.

 

[Rollingthndr]

he didn't have the YAC ability Rice did and he most certainly didn't have the drive to be the perfectionist that Rice had.

TO was one of the greatest YAC WR's in league history.

 

[Rollingthndr]

But physical talent isn't everything. Jerry Rice's work ethic is what made him great. Nobody comes close to that.

Ok, so TO's work ethic was garbage? I remember reading quite a few stories about how everyone left for the night and he's still in the weight room, blaring music and getting yoked.

 

[Xponentialchaos]

Ok, so TO's work ethic was garbage? I remember reading quite a few stories about how everyone left for the night and he's still in the weight room, blaring music and getting yoked.

I didn't say that, now did I?

 

[HammerDown]

You need to read better. In no way did I say Carter was on Rice's level. Rice is a level that no one else is on. A few of these guys might have been as talented as Rice (maybe even more raw physical talent even) but no one was even close to Rice when it came to working and perfectly the art of being a WR in the NFL.

No YOU need to read better. Your response shows that. Read what I said and then try again.

As for the second sentence...

Sure they were/are.

 

[HammerDown]

I'm not sure why this is even being discussed. Jerry Rice was easily a better player than Terrell Owens.

People get way too obsessed with physical talent. Physically, Terrell Owens is an absolute beast that very few players, Jerry included, can match. But physical talent isn't everything. Jerry Rice's work ethic is what made him great. Nobody comes close to that.

True.

Congrats on that.

TO, moss and Megatron are real impressed.