Do we trust bevell not to f up the offense

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Funny, but I knew when I first heard this news that it wouldn't take long for the bevell whiners up here to start up.

Some of you refuse to find anything positive in any news that comes out. At least wait until Bevell does screw up the flow of the offense before you dump on him.

It's hard to give Bevell credit when he calls a horrible play at the end of the SB. He's just so inconsistant. So with that in mind, it's a new season upon us and lets hope he learns from his mistakes and the offense gets into a flow from the start. If Bevell shows consistancy this season, I'll back off and give the man his due.

 

[gohusk]

Everybody's got their own opinion about Bevell and everybody knows where everybody else stands on him. But GOING FORWARD, if we picked him up and all he does is run those lame, flat routes about 10 yards past the line of scrimmage, out routes, and scramble drills then I'm going to be pissed. He's a big target with great range that we should be sending on slants and quick outs towards the middle of the field. Not using him like that is a waste of a trade.

 

[WizardHawk]

The team has gone to back to back super bowls. Teams simply don't do that. Despite having shaky offensive line play and no major threats in the passing game they managed to consistently score enough to win at a high rate.

While many argue they only win because they have the top defense in the game, it's clear to those who look at the whole picture that their steady consistency on offense is equally important.

They do not have a dynamic offense. By design. They would rather punt more than average to maintain the lower turnover ratio. Conservative might be more boring, but it works.

No one was happy with the fly sweep offense they tried to put in around Harvin. I'm not sure any of us were aware of just how bad he was with his demands and the things he flat out wasn't willing to do for his team. He was a cancer in every sense of the word.

I'll reserve judgement of how they use Graham until we see it.

 

[JMR]

The team has gone to back to back super bowls. Teams simply don't do that. Despite having shaky offensive line play and no major threats in the passing game they managed to consistently score enough to win at a high rate.

While many argue they only win because they have the top defense in the game, it's clear to those who look at the whole picture that their steady consistency on offense is equally important.

They do not have a dynamic offense. By design. They would rather punt more than average to maintain the lower turnover ratio. Conservative might be more boring, but it works.

No one was happy with the fly sweep offense they tried to put in around Harvin. I'm not sure any of us were aware of just how bad he was with his demands and the things he flat out wasn't willing to do for his team. He was a cancer in every sense of the word.

I'll reserve judgement of how they use Graham until we see it.

Despite not having (up to this point) top caliber receiving threats, I actually think the offense is very dynamic. It may not be prolific, but our O features an elite RB and a QB that is the best scrambler/runner who throws down field as well and as often as just about anyone. Russell's ypa is near the top over the past 3 years, and of course his running has been killer at times. To me, that's dynamic. Now we add another completely different dimension in Graham that we haven't had during the RW era.

Maybe it's just word choice or semantics, but I look at an offense like Denver and while prolific, I don't think it's dynamic. Same with NO and Indy. You negate or minimize the one thing they can do, and you have them beat even though they'll put up tons of yards and points over the course of the season. Our O may not put up tons of yards or as many points, but I feel it can be effective in multiple ways. Even moreso now with Graham on board.

 

[WizardHawk]

If you take the run away from Seattle they lose. It's pretty much a written rule. No, I'm not saying they have never won a game where they were held under 100y rushing, but stop Lynch and your chances go way way up. Without play action that offense isn't that effective. That's why I call it a non dynamic offense. While Wilson does spread the ball around quite well, he hasn't had a strong enough line to be killer in a passing only attack and hasn't had the weapons that get open consistently enough to survive through the air without play action.

Graham should help change that dynamic. If Norwood pops or if they pick up another weapon before the season starts it will be even more so. The more they can shift the balance to be a real threat on either side of the ball to the point where either can win the day on any given Sunday, the more ready the team will be for the inevitable end to the Lynch era. Whenever that comes.

 

[blstoker]

If you take the run away from Seattle they lose. It's pretty much a written rule. No, I'm not saying they have never won a game where they were held under 100y rushing, but stop Lynch and your chances go way way up. Without play action that offense isn't that effective. That's why I call it a non dynamic offense. While Wilson does spread the ball around quite well, he hasn't had a strong enough line to be killer in a passing only attack and hasn't had the weapons that get open consistently enough to survive through the air without play action.

Here's the numbers for Seahawks rushing.

2012-2014

<100 - 5-3 .625
100-149 - 13-6 .684
150-199 - 16-3 .842
>200 - 8-2 .800

2010-2014 (2010-2011)

<100 - 8-9 .471 (3-6 .333)
100-149 - 19-12 .613 (6-6 .500)
150-199 - 23-6 .793 (7-3 .700)
>200 - 11-2 .846 (3-0 1.000)

Just thought people would like to see the numbers.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Here's the numbers for Seahawks rushing.

2012-2014

<100 - 5-3 .625
100-149 - 13-6 .684
150-199 - 16-3 .842
>200 - 8-2 .800

2010-2014 (2010-2011)

<100 - 8-9 .471 (3-6 .333)
100-149 - 19-12 .613 (6-6 .500)
150-199 - 23-6 .793 (7-3 .700)
>200 - 11-2 .846 (3-0 1.000)

Just thought people would like to see the numbers.

You might want to explain those numbers some what. I get them myself the better the running game the more wins. However at a glance folks may not get them.

 

[WizardHawk]

Nice to see them above .500, but then they haven't lost that many games over the last 3 years. It is interesting to see exactly how much of a fall off their is, even if it isn't massive. They have certainly improved in the Wilson era given the overall .333 when under 100 when just adding those two years prior to his takeover vs .625 in the other 3 seasons. Impressive.

I'd still expect that to rise with Graham coming in.

 

[WizardHawk]

You might want to explain those numbers some what. I get them myself the better the running game the more wins. However at a glance folks may not get them.

Lots of ways of looking at those numbers. Love that there are more games over 200y than games under 100y. Teams may TRY to take away the run, but it's been far easier to say than do over the Lynch era.

 

[Uhsplit]

Not only this, but Graham CAN'T block. They guy would be a horrible liability as a blocking TE. He's soft and defenses would run through him to the QB.

Then, at that moment he would not be working at his highest and best use.

 

[dude82]

Even if they use him as a receiver/receiving tight end more often than they've used previous tight ends as receivers/receiving tight ends, he's still going to have to block when we run the ball. That's a pretty important job in a run-heavy offense. It's easy to say that he can't block or that he's too soft to block, but look at the Saints offense when he was there and look at our offense. They couldn't be more different. They preferred to air it out a lot and we prefer to bludgeon teams into submission. We may decide to tweak our offense so that we air it out more than we have in the past few years, but our bread-and-butter is running the ball and that doesn't figure to change much as long as Lynch is still here. I really don't think they would have brought a guy into this offense who is totally incapable of run blocking. He doesn't have to be a road grader, but with Cable coaching him up, I don't expect him to be a pushover either.

 

[blstoker]

You might want to explain those numbers some what. I get them myself the better the running game the more wins. However at a glance folks may not get them.

First, I want to apologize - I made an error. When putting my spread sheet together, I seem to have put 2012's numbers in both 2012 and 2010, so the numbers are off. I'll correct them here.

2012-2014

<100 - 5-3 .625
100-149 - 13-6 .684
150-199 - 16-3 .842
>200 - 8-2 .800

2010-2014 (2010-2011)

<100 - 8-17 .320 (3-14 .176)
100-149 - 22-9 .710 (9-3 .750)
150-199 - 19-5 .624 (3-2 .600)
>200 - 8-2 .800

Here's a little further breakdown:

When rushing for less than 100 yards the Seahawks pass for an average of 202.4 yards (with it being slightly higher since Wilson came at 204.5) and scores 18.3 points (21.0 with Wilson). The defense gives up 368.0 yards of offense and 25.1 points (343.4 & 18.0 respectively since 2012).

When rushing for 100 to 149 yards, the Seahawks pass for an average of 201.1 yards (with it being slightly lower with Wilson at 197.9) and scores 23.0 points (23.3 with Wilson). The defense gives up 294.1 yards of total offense and 15.8 points (282.1 & 15.4).

When rushing for 150 to 199 yards, the Seahawks pass for an average of 204.5 yards (202.7 with Wilson) and scores 26.0 points (25.7 with Wilson). The defense gives up 295.2 yards of total offense and 16.7 points (272.0 & 15.3).

When rushing for 200 or more yards, the Seahawks pass for an average of 207.1 yards, and scores 34.9 points. The defense allows 263.3 yards of total offense and 15.5 points.

So, Seattle's passing game doesn't seem to be too affected by what the running game does, averaging just over 200 yards a game in each of the 4 areas, but the scoring offense and defense get better as the offense gets more rushing yards. Seattle is also 24-1 at home when rushing for 100 yards or more since 2012 (29-3 under Pete Carroll) and are undefeated when reaching 150 (18-0 under PC). Overall, they are 49-16 under Caroll when rushing for at least 100 yards, and 27-7 when rushing for 150.

 

[JMR]

One of the dynamic aspects of our offense is the fact that it's not just Lynch that can hurt you on the ground. To lump what RW brings with his legs into the "running game" glosses over that element. Lynch had only 5 100 yd games this season; Russell had 3, including 1 where he also had 300+ yards I the air -- first time in NFL history that's happened. There have been plenty of times where Lynch has been neutralized yet the O still makes huge plays & drives doing different things with RW.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Even if they use him as a receiver/receiving tight end more often than they've used previous tight ends as receivers/receiving tight ends, he's still going to have to block when we run the ball. That's a pretty important job in a run-heavy offense. It's easy to say that he can't block or that he's too soft to block, but look at the Saints offense when he was there and look at our offense. They couldn't be more different. They preferred to air it out a lot and we prefer to bludgeon teams into submission. We may decide to tweak our offense so that we air it out more than we have in the past few years, but our bread-and-butter is running the ball and that doesn't figure to change much as long as Lynch is still here. I really don't think they would have brought a guy into this offense who is totally incapable of run blocking. He doesn't have to be a road grader, but with Cable coaching him up, I don't expect him to be a pushover either.

So very true! You can't teach size, strength and speed which is what Jimmy has but teaching him some blocking techniques will round out his game even more. Which is a scary thought for our opponents.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Funny, but I knew when I first heard this news that it wouldn't take long for the bevell whiners up here to start up.

Some of you refuse to find anything positive in any news that comes out. At least wait until Bevell does screw up the flow of the offense before you dump on him.

Wait until he screws up ? Bro, we need a time machine and I might get onboard with that...

 

[WizardHawk]

I hated the offense with Percy, but how much of what was Percy?

I'm not sure what OC is great at putting an offense together with players dictating what they are, and are not willing to do within their own skill set.

Graham isn't going to command a total rewrite of the offense. He's not really a TE and likely won't be used as such (at least not often). He's a big body receiver that can line up anywhere on the field. He's the tallest target Wilson will have ever thrown to in his life. Talk about helping out a short QB. Bevell will be free to tweak plays to his strengths and still be able to put Willson or other TE's in for blocking or extra bodies to go out (think 4 verts). Harvin required the offense to be something it was not and they weren't allowed to fully utilize his true talents because he's a fucking mental case.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

I hated the offense with Percy, but how much of what was Percy?

I'm not sure what OC is great at putting an offense together with players dictating what they are, and are not willing to do within their own skill set.

Graham isn't going to command a total rewrite of the offense. He's not really a TE and likely won't be used as such (at least not often). He's a big body receiver that can line up anywhere on the field. He's the tallest target Wilson will have ever thrown to in his life. Talk about helping out a short QB. Bevell will be free to tweak plays to his strengths and still be able to put Willson or other TE's in for blocking or extra bodies to go out (think 4 verts). Harvin required the offense to be something it was not and they weren't allowed to fully utilize his true talents because he's a fucking mental case.

I hear ya on that....

 

[WizardHawk]

Even if they use him as a receiver/receiving tight end more often than they've used previous tight ends as receivers/receiving tight ends, he's still going to have to block when we run the ball. That's a pretty important job in a run-heavy offense. It's easy to say that he can't block or that he's too soft to block, but look at the Saints offense when he was there and look at our offense. They couldn't be more different. They preferred to air it out a lot and we prefer to bludgeon teams into submission. We may decide to tweak our offense so that we air it out more than we have in the past few years, but our bread-and-butter is running the ball and that doesn't figure to change much as long as Lynch is still here. I really don't think they would have brought a guy into this offense who is totally incapable of run blocking. He doesn't have to be a road grader, but with Cable coaching him up, I don't expect him to be a pushover either.

Not any more than Baldwin or Kearse do now. If Bevell runs 11 personnel as their base set with him, he should be fired for being a complete moron. He's not a traditional blocking TE and to suggest Seattle needs that from him is entirely ludicrous. He's a large body pass receiver. The kind of blocking he is likely to do is more on the LB's than DE's. He might box out or seal and end, but not like true blocking TE's are expected to do.

Seattle should be running 12 personnel. Hell, ideally Graham would line up outside at least 50% of the time leaving Baldwin free to be what he truly is: A half way decent slot receiver. Imagine Graham and either Norwood or Mathews out wide and Baldwin running across the field. Picture Willson lined up on the left edge of the line and Graham lined up about 4 feet to the right of the line with Baldwin and Kearse on the outside. Throw in that Lynch can receive as well and there are all sort of things the defense will have to watch that will in turn stretch them out and leave bigger lanes for Lynch to run in.

 

[WizardHawk]

Jimmy Grahams blocking not a concern to Seahawks GM John Schneider | The Seattle Times

Some observers also wondered how Graham’s blocking, never regarded as his strong suit, will fit in with a Seattle offense that typically leads with the run.

But in an interview with 710 ESPN Seattle, Seahawks general manager John Schneider said any perceived weaknesses in Graham’s game will be more than made up for by his strengths.

At 6 feet 7 and 265 pounds and athletic enough to play at the University of Miami on a basketball scholarship before he turned out for football as a senior, Graham is the big red-zone target the Seahawks have not had in years.

Undoubtedly with the end of the Super Bowl in mind, a tweet from ESPN noted that Graham has been thrown to nine times in his career from the 1-yard line, and he caught eight for touchdowns.

“Is he a dominant run-blocker?” Schneider said. “No. But he’s a dominant pass-catcher, and he’s a difference-maker in the passing game.”

They know what he is, and what he isn't. You don't try to force your round peg down a square hole when no round hole can stop him as it is.

He's going to run routes and do very little in terms of edge blocking for the running game.

And he will still contribute more than any TE in recent years.