Do we have a CBA strife thread yet?

[evolver115]

Meh, Fehr is a part of the problem. Not single handed.

No, obviously it's not single-handed, but Goddammit, sure seems like that last offer from the league was the most generous offer the PA has received up until now.

The clock is ticking ever faster to a drop dead date. Realistically, I'd say they have less than a month.

 

[banditshcky11]

After having watched Fehr's and Bettman's press conferences, I have to admit that I think the PA really blew this most recent opportunity to get a deal done.

In Gary's presser he brought up 3 major points within the structure of a new CBA that the clubs' felt they had to have:

- Term Limits of Player contracts 5yrs max, or 7yrs if with current team

- Term of new CBA, first pitched 10 yrs/8yr opt out, then shrunk to 8/6yr op out

- Compliance Issues: 1. reduce cap to 60mil teams could stay @ 70mil for 1 yr
2.Contract Buyouts 3. Escrow Limits

I just don't understand what Fehr is telling the PA they can still squeeze out of the league? :nonod:

With this most recent train-wreck, Daly and Buttman made it sound like the concept of 'make whole' is now completely off the table because it was based around a concept of an 82 game schedule. Now that the league has no hope of even a 60 game schedule, I don't really see how the PA will be able to get the league to put the 300 million, or really any dollar amount related to 'make whole', back on the table.

I think these are the 2 sticking points for the players.

They want to be able to sign longer deals to ensure their place on a team and plan lives for their families in one area(granted they have a NTC in their contract). I also believe that they don't think they should be forced t o pay for the fact that GM's and owners offer these deals and now the only way to fix that is to take something from the players. That IMO in a NHL internal problem. I however do agree with the NHL about needing variance control to stop front loading salaries, that in itself will take care of some of the long term deals as no one will wnat to pay a aging declining players $4-7m a year.

They believe the CBA is too long because some player who will have to live with it after their initial contracts will have had no say in what's going on. I can fully understand this point, it's like you goto work for your fathers company join the union and even though the older workers are retiring soon you have no say on the conditions of which you're expected to spend your future in.

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

No, obviously it's not single-handed, but Goddammit, sure seems like that last offer from the league was the most generous offer the PA has received up until now.

The clock is ticking ever faster to a drop dead date. Realistically, I'd say they have less than a month.

Not really saying a whole lot. It's like the league offered to only kick each individual player in the balls 10x instead of their first offer of 25x. Yeah, they've reduced their demands a lot, but it's still almost exclusively the players giving up things in this.

 

[dash]

Since the NHLPA did submit the latest offer, I think if Bettman and the owners want hockey this season they should submit the following counter-offer sometime next week and say "You have 48 hours to tell us your answer and if the answer is no, the season is cancelled."

I think the offer should contain the following elements that incorporate items that both sides want and include the following:

50/50 linkage (both sides have basically agreed to this already)
contracts 5 yr max, 7 yr for same team (league wants this)
Make whole of $393M (up from $300 million, players want this dollar figure)
10 year CBA length, opt out at 8 years (league wants this)
5% variance on contract dollars year-to-year (league wants this)

In my opinion, the league should present this offer and the players should call for a NHLPA membership vote. I could be totally out to lunch, but I think the players would accept this offer.

 

[elocomotive]

In my opinion, the league should present this offer and the players should call for a NHLPA membership vote. I could be totally out to lunch, but I think the players would accept this offer.

I agree with ya, Dash. Isn't part of the problem here that the league has yet to submit a full offer to be put to a vote by the players?

Honestly, the differences at this point seem minute, and it's completely ridiculous a deal has not been made. It's a failure by all sides.

Pierre Lebrun put this well...

NHLPA executive director Don Fehr has done a masterful job throughout this lockout of telling his players to stay patient and wait because the deal would get better. And when owners upped their "make-whole" provision from $211 million to $300 million Wednesday night -- something the league said it would never do -- Fehr was proved right.

Thing is, you can’t wait and wait and wait forever, and believe the offer will always improve. You have to know when the time is right to cut a deal.

 

[dash]

Man, I haven't seen LeBrun as fired up as he was last night, he was almost as livid as Gary Bettman during his presser.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

I agree with ya, Dash. Isn't part of the problem here that the league has yet to submit a full offer to be put to a vote by the players?

Honestly, the differences at this point seem minute, and it's completely ridiculous a deal has not been made. It's a failure by all sides.

Pierre Lebrun put this well...

This is playing out like I thought it would. Fehr is a dispicable human being.

 

[banditshcky11]

Since the NHLPA did submit the latest offer, I think if Bettman and the owners want hockey this season they should submit the following counter-offer sometime next week and say "You have 48 hours to tell us your answer and if the answer is no, the season is cancelled."

I think the offer should contain the following elements that incorporate items that both sides want and include the following:

50/50 linkage (both sides have basically agreed to this already)
contracts 5 yr max, 7 yr for same team (league wants this)
Make whole of $393M (up from $300 million, players want this dollar figure)
10 year CBA length, opt out at 8 years (league wants this)
5% variance on contract dollars year-to-year (league wants this)

In my opinion, the league should present this offer and the players should call for a NHLPA membership vote. I could be totally out to lunch, but I think the players would accept this offer.

So the league gets everything they want except for agreeing to fulfill the contracts they already signed???

I'm sorry Dash I like you a lot and normally agree(or at least can see why you say things) with most of time & please don't take this the wrong way, but are you fucking nuts?

So the players just give the NHL everything they want and get nothing in return except for what they're already entitled to? I just don't see how that's fair to the players.

Just to clarify this I am very pro union when the union is attempting to best serve it's members. I hate not having hockey, but I don't want them to agree to another huge give back to the league to only watch the same process in 8-10 years. This whole situation is really based off the last lockout and the owners/league feeling entitled to get what they want again. Like any bully there is a point where you have to just stand up and tell them no. If we lose a season it will fucking bllow but the cap will come off the tabel and in the end they will finally find a fair deal for both sides, but this crap of caving to the owners for a 2nd time in 8 years is just total fucking bullshit.

So everyone know I have completely detached myself from the $ all these people are making because to me it comes down to right vs wrong and the way the NHL is trying to do business is not only wrong but down right deplaurable now.

 

[elocomotive]

This is playing out like I thought it would...

Link?

Just kidding, just kidding.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

So the league gets everything they want except for agreeing to fulfill the contracts they already signed???

I'm sorry Dash I like you a lot and normally agree(or at least can see why you say things) with most of time & please don't take this the wrong way, but are you fucking nuts?

So the players just give the NHL everything they want and get nothing in return except for what they're already entitled to? I just don't see how that's fair to the players.

Just to clarify this I am very pro union when the union is attempting to best serve it's members. I hate not having hockey, but I don't want them to agree to another huge give back to the league to only watch the same process in 8-10 years. This whole situation is really based off the last lockout and the owners/league feeling entitled to get what they want again. Like any bully there is a point where you have to just stand up and tell them no. If we lose a season it will fucking bllow but the cap will come off the tabel and in the end they will finally find a fair deal for both sides, but this crap of caving to the owners for a 2nd time in 8 years is just total fucking bullshit.

So everyone know I have completely detached myself from the $ all these people are making because to me it comes down to right vs wrong and the way the NHL is trying to do business is not only wrong but down right deplaurable now.

At this point I just want their to be a season. I don't think there will be though.

 

[evolver115]

Not really saying a whole lot. It's like the league offered to only kick each individual player in the balls 10x instead of their first offer of 25x. Yeah, they've reduced their demands a lot, but it's still almost exclusively the players giving up things in this.

You're right. It is true that the NHLPA is making the lion's share of the concessions.

However, all you have to do is look at the other two most recent CBA's negotiated from other major professional sporting leagues (NBA, NFL), to realize that is generally how their PA's had to 'lay down' in order to get an agreement.

The days of PA's enjoying more than 50% of related revenue to their respective league are over. Don't think for one second that the NHL hasn't made note of that.

 

[elocomotive]

So the players just give the NHL everything they want and get nothing in return except for what they're already entitled to? I just don't see how that's fair to the players.

I hear ya, but not totally true since the league has already come down to 50/50 instead of their original offer. Now that said, that can be viewed as a concession since the players were higher before.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

Link?

Just kidding, just kidding.

I've always doubted there would be a season because of Fehr. He's a big reason why the Montreal Expos don't exsist.

 

[elocomotive]

You're right. It is true that the NHLPA is making the lion's share of the concessions.

When I read this, I pictured in my mind the players hustling off the ice to get to the concession stands to sell hot dogs and beer inbetween periods.

 

[IPostedWhat]

 

[dash]

So the league gets everything they want except for agreeing to fulfill the contracts they already signed???

I'm sorry Dash I like you a lot and normally agree(or at least can see why you say things) with most of time & please don't take this the wrong way, but are you fucking nuts?

So the players just give the NHL everything they want and get nothing in return except for what they're already entitled to? I just don't see how that's fair to the players.

Just to clarify this I am very pro union when the union is attempting to best serve it's members. I hate not having hockey, but I don't want them to agree to another huge give back to the league to only watch the same process in 8-10 years. This whole situation is really based off the last lockout and the owners/league feeling entitled to get what they want again. Like any bully there is a point where you have to just stand up and tell them no. If we lose a season it will fucking bllow but the cap will come off the tabel and in the end they will finally find a fair deal for both sides, but this crap of caving to the owners for a 2nd time in 8 years is just total fucking bullshit.

So everyone know I have completely detached myself from the $ all these people are making because to me it comes down to right vs wrong and the way the NHL is trying to do business is not only wrong but down right deplaurable now.

Well, I did put a disclaimer at the end that I could be totally out to lunch (haha). I think I have stated previously in this thread that I do lean towards the players side in this dispute, but there's no denying that the owners have the hammer. I'm not saying that we should take the Forbes financial numbers as gospel, but there are definitely several teams struggling financially currently in the league. It's a pretty hollow victory for the players if they declare CBA victory only to see the team they play for have to fold up shop.

I guess what I'm saying is that at some point, you have to choose pragmatism over principles.

 

[elocomotive]

LOL.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

Well, I did put a disclaimer at the end that I could be totally out to lunch (haha). I think I have stated previously in this thread that I do lean towards the players side in this dispute, but there's no denying that the owners have the hammer. I'm not saying that we should take the Forbes financial numbers as gospel, but there are definitely several teams struggling financially currently in the league. It's a pretty hollow victory for the players if they declare CBA victory only to see the team they play for have to fold up shop.

I guess what I'm saying is that at some point, you have to choose pragmatism over principles.

If a team has to fold after this dispute & the Coyotes continue on in Glendale there's something very wrong with the NHL.

 

[evolver115]

I guess what I'm saying is that at some point, you have to choose pragmatism over principles.

I don't believe that word has any meaning to one Donald Fehr.

 

[BOSSMANPC]

Meh, Fehr is a part of the problem. Not single handed.

When I found out that he was involved I knew we were in trouble. I don't like Bettman but feel that Fehr is a major problem. It just makes me sick that I KNEW this was going to happen when the cap went way up too fast and the asinine contract lengths were handed out to circumvent the cap.

It suck's !!