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Do we have a CBA strife thread yet?

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jstewismybastardson

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images


OH LAWD! I'M COMIN LIZBEF!

the day after a new cba gets signed (if and when) ... bettman will tell us there are 30 strong franchises

Iraqi+Information+Minister.jpg
 

dash

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So now a second article emerges about how the owners basically stopped negotiations as soon as they were told that Donald Fehr was coming back into the mix:

"There was clearly a communication issue with what was being transpired across the table," added Hainsey. "They hadn't understood it properly I guess, or it just hadn't been communicated right and there was an issue there and so that was when I thought it was troublesome. We needed to think about getting the lead guys back in there; both sides not just our side because being clear and getting this done we felt was there to do."

Hainsey and the players indicated that the small group dynamic was over, that Don Fehr was coming back in. He says the owners told them that could be a deal breaker. NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly clarified the league's position via e-mail to TSN, saying "totally within their rights to do, but response of our owners was "if that's the case, don't expect us to stay involved."


Jets' Hainsey wonders where the NHL talks went wrong
 

forty_three

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So now a second article emerges about how the owners basically stopped negotiations as soon as they were told that Donald Fehr was coming back into the mix:

Yeah, and if the players had started off saying they refused to deal with Bettman (which the hiring of Fehr sort of was) they'd have been crucified.

Ron Hainsey smear campaign starts in 3... 2...
 

BOSSMANPC

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Expecting two hard line asshole negotiators and expecting a positive result is living in fantasy land.

Both of them are idiots.
 

filosofy29

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Yeah, and if the players had started off saying they refused to deal with Bettman (which the hiring of Fehr sort of was) they'd have been crucified.

Ron Hainsey smear campaign starts in 3... 2...

Are you serious? I (along with many others on this board) would have figuratively been doing backflips had they said that. I'd gladly give up 1 year of NHL Hockey if it meant Bettman got the boot (and they hired somebody who cared about the growth of the game).
 
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banditshcky11

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Well, I did put a disclaimer at the end that I could be totally out to lunch (haha). I think I have stated previously in this thread that I do lean towards the players side in this dispute, but there's no denying that the owners have the hammer. I'm not saying that we should take the Forbes financial numbers as gospel, but there are definitely several teams struggling financially currently in the league. It's a pretty hollow victory for the players if they declare CBA victory only to see the team they play for have to fold up shop.

I guess what I'm saying is that at some point, you have to choose pragmatism over principles.

I agree that if the players straight up win out on everything teams will fold. The part I don't agree with is that it's the PLAYERS and not the league/owners who have to help prop up teams in markets they shouldn't be in to start with. I mean did the players ever vote on either expansion or the locations that would be expanded to? I'm honestly asking this because I can't find a single article about how expansion really works in the NHL.

It just seems totally fucked up to me that anyone can sign a contract and then have one party go by the way I didn't really intend to follow the conditions we agreed on. Also this whole lockout is on the NHL/owners they voted it in and therefore it's their fault that they aren't continuing to build a larger fan base and in turn are doing irreparable damage to the teams that were struggling before this whole mes. That isn't even mentioning the cities and small buisness that are struggling because of this whole mess. I personally hope every city and business owner files claims against the NHL(even if they stand no chance of winning) just to show the assholes holding the whole process up that this isn't just about their wallets. There s a much bigger picture here and the fact that the government(who I also think are a giant bag of dicks) hasn't gotten involved so far is utterly ridiculous to me.

I think part of my personal frustration is that yet again in this country that the 1%'s are fucking everything up for everyone else and are expecting to not have to follow certain laws(say honoring a contract) that every average Joe has to. As I have said I'm very pro union and it's not like I don't realize the vast majority of professional athletes are grossly overpaid and thay're definitely adding to the problem but in my eyes the NHLPA is the only group actually making concession. Concession is defined by the following: the act or an instance of conceding (as by granting something as a right, accepting something as true, or acknowledging defeat). What the NHL really conceded here? They made an absolutely ludicrous opening offer and are now playing it off like everything after that is huge concessions on their part when in truth the things they want now they've never had to concede in the first place.



I'm sorry, this is getting too long and I'm fuming again thinking about how fucking ridiculous this whole situation is & just how greedy some of these fuckers are.
 

forty_three

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Are you serious? I (along with many others on this board) would have figuratively been doing backflips had they said that. I'd gladly give up 1 year of NHL Hockey if it meant Bettman got the boot (and they hired somebody who cared about the growth of the game).

Perhaps I should have added "in the media" right after "crucified".
 

Dacks

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After having watched Fehr's and Bettman's press conferences, I have to admit that I think the PA really blew this most recent opportunity to get a deal done.

In Gary's presser he brought up 3 major points within the structure of a new CBA that the clubs' felt they had to have:

- Term Limits of Player contracts 5yrs max, or 7yrs if with current team

- Term of new CBA, first pitched 10 yrs/8yr opt out, then shrunk to 8/6yr op out

- Compliance Issues: 1. reduce cap to 60mil teams could stay @ 70mil for 1 yr
2.Contract Buyouts 3. Escrow Limits

I just don't understand what Fehr is telling the PA they can still squeeze out of the league? :nonod:

The thing is, the union didn't walk away from those. They agreed in principle, but wanted to negotiate the exact details.

Someone else can find the quote, but Bettman said something along the lines of "We thought we came to an agreement on the makewhole, but that was conditional on the union accepting three things: term of player contracts, term of deal and compliance issues".

Translated: We'll give you a bit more (but not all) of the money we already agreed to pay you, but only if you accept everything else we're proposing.

And then when the NHLPA tried to negotiate, which I don't see anything wrong with, the owners threw a hissy fit.
 

dash

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^^^

This past Tuesday, it was a campfire and everybody was singing Kumbaya. Yesterday, it was a bonfire.
 

filosofy29

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Perhaps I should have added "in the media" right after "crucified".

Gotcha 43, that makes more sense. I'm still not sure I 100% agree, but media makes a lot more sense than what I wrongly assumed (hockey fans).
 

evolver115

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The thing is, the union didn't walk away from those. They agreed in principle, but wanted to negotiate the exact details.

Someone else can find the quote, but Bettman said something along the lines of "We thought we came to an agreement on the makewhole, but that was conditional on the union accepting three things: term of player contracts, term of deal and compliance issues".

Translated: We'll give you a bit more (but not all) of the money we already agreed to pay you, but only if you accept everything else we're proposing.

And then when the NHLPA tried to negotiate, which I don't see anything wrong with, the owners threw a hissy fit.


I try to not agree with one side more than the other. If at all, I support the players just a bit more. I just question how much more the union is willing to gamble on the short amount of time left before the owners just outright say, "fuck it, we're done."

If that happens, the players lose more than the greedy billionaires. Lost earning time hurts when the average career lasts, what 5 years? Other current and former players have already said how bad the previous lost season was to their bottom lines. They also said if they had it to do again, they would have made a deal and got on with it.

It appears that Fehr has some of them convinced they have more time to bargain. We'll see.
 
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mattola

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deal or no deal this year. damage is so done to this league in terms of fans, its reputation and how partners will deal with them in the future. the other leagues will laugh and it will never EVER EVER make it in the big 3 NEVER.

and Bettman thought he was hated before? man oh man wait until the first public showing of him at any game. we know he is not 100% for this but he is the face and will forever be the face of 3 lockouts. he will never be accepted never
 
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