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Diamondbacks are a mess- Trade Greinke

The Q

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Oh, for sure. It's just one of those things that needs to be washed out so the thread doesn't become 100 posts about something that cannot and will not happen no matter how bad someone might think it's a good idea. There are some fun takes I can pull up regarding the James Shields trade back in 2013 (which I also hated ironically) which are great reads using hindsight.

It probably would'e given you a better chance to win the title in 2014.

Shields wasn't really....good during that run.

Getting a real 2B instead of Infante probably wins you the series (especially since he fell down to allow the winning run to eventually score).
 

Omar 382

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With that contact it is going to be impossible to get back talent level value in prospects.
As Cameron posted, there's no draft pick compensation, and the D-Backs could obviously eat money. It's unlikely, but not impossible IMO, and if someone did offer something, the D-Backs should jump all over it
 

Fountain City Blues

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It probably would'e given you a better chance to win the title in 2014.

Shields wasn't really....good during that run.

Getting a real 2B instead of Infante probably wins you the series (especially since he fell down to allow the winning run to eventually score).
Ugh, that Infante signing just keeps finding new ways to be terrible. Getting outperformed by an AAAA 27 year old in Whit Merrifield is pretty bad.
 

The Q

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As Cameron posted, there's no draft pick compensation, and the D-Backs could obviously eat money. It's unlikely, but not impossible IMO, and if someone did offer something, the D-Backs should jump all over it

I'm curious what it would take for the red sox to do it.

Looks like they should've just went all in for Price and Cueto and O'Day and called it an off-season. No draft picks. All talent. No stupid overpaying for a closer.
 

Omar 382

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I'm curious what it would take for the red sox to do it.

Looks like they should've just went all in for Price and Cueto and O'Day and called it an off-season. No draft picks. All talent. No stupid overpaying for a closer.
Yep. Trading prospects or spending big money for closers is ridiculously retarded. It's not like a nobody like Jeanmar Gomez could fill in and become one of the best closers in baseball
 

Fountain City Blues

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Yep. Trading prospects or spending big money for closers is ridiculously retarded. It's not like a nobody like Jeanmar Gomez could fill in and become one of the best closers in baseball
Wade Davis goes from fringey starter to uber-dominant closer. This goes with some tinged irony using that example, but trading for closers is ludicrous. Velasquez as a reliever would be just fine I'd bet.
 

Omar 382

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Wade Davis goes from fringey starter to uber-dominant closer. This goes with some tinged irony using that example, but trading for closers is ludicrous.
I throw up every time I hear the words "Papelbon" or "Paps"
 

The Q

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Wade Davis goes from fringey starter to uber-dominant closer. This goes with some tinged irony using that example, but trading for closers is ludicrous. Velasquez as a reliever would be just fine I'd bet.

Trading a guy in your current rotation for a closer is a terrible idea.

Houston never should've moved VV.
 

The Q

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I throw up every time I hear the words "Papelbon" or "Paps"

Sheehan just wrote that he was one of the top 3 or 4 closers of the modern closer era.

My guess is behind Rivera and Hoffman for sure.

Idk if Eck falls in line with that era. If not him, Wagner?
 

Omar 382

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Trading a guy in your current rotation for a closer is a terrible idea.

Houston never should've moved VV.
What kills me is if they were so concerned about their BP not having SO stuff, they could have pretty easily moved VV to the bullpen and likely gotten pretty good results. They wouldn't have had to throw away quality lottery tickets and wake up to the reality their rotation is as soft throwing as it gets- and was pins and needles away from being bad.
 

Omar 382

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Sheehan just wrote that he was one of the top 3 or 4 closers of the modern closer era.

My guess is behind Rivera and Hoffman for sure.

Idk if Eck falls in line with that era. If not him, Wagner?
Yeah, probably. It's Mo and Hoffman and then a gap. Wagner is probably third for me.
 

dredinis21

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I throw Robb Nen into the equation before his arm fell off in the discussion of top 5...not ahead of Wagner, though. 30+ saves every year from 1996-2002 until his arm fell off in the 2002 World Series. Was as dependable as there was....surely didn't sweat him on the mound the same way we did Brian Wilson.
 

The Q

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I throw Robb Nen into the equation before his arm fell off in the discussion of top 5...not ahead of Wagner, though. 30+ saves every year from 1996-2002 until his arm fell off in the 2002 World Series. Was as dependable as there was....surely didn't sweat him on the mound the same way we did Brian Wilson.

Had it not fallen off the Giants, and Bonds, would have one more ring.

Then again, they had it won without got Spezio's reverse "Tin Cup" moment against Felix Rodriguez.
 

The Q

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Yeah, probably. It's Mo and Hoffman and then a gap. Wagner is probably third for me.

Not really cringe worthy stuff...dude is a stud.

A grade A ass, but also a grade A stud closer for his career.
 

Omar 382

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Not really cringe worthy stuff...dude is a stud.

A grade A ass, but also a grade A stud closer for his career.
We payed 50 million dollars for a guy who produced a 5 WAR in about 4 seasons. So yeah, I fucking hate the guy
 

The Q

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We payed 50 million dollars for a guy who produced a 5 WAR in about 4 seasons. So yeah, I fucking hate the guy

How much of that is on the team? He was still clearly producing, including based on FIP and xFIP (for the most part).
 

Omar 382

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How much of that is on the team? He was still clearly producing, including based on FIP and xFIP (for the most part).
It's not on the team (SV aren't a part of WAR), it's on the reality of his role. A guy who only pitches ~65 innings a year is not nearly as valuable as someone who pitches 200 innings or has 600 PA. It's not his fault (although there is stuff that is), it's retarded front office's faults for paying so much money for a player who plays a position that so many people can fill. For example, in 2013 Jake Diekman pitched 20 less innings out of the pen, and had a significantly better FIP and xFIP and only had 0.4 less wins, and he made 500K that year.
 

The Q

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It's not on the team (SV aren't a part of WAR), it's on the reality of his role. A guy who only pitches ~65 innings a year is not nearly as valuable as someone who pitches 200 innings or has 600 PA. It's not his fault (although there is stuff that is), it's retarded front office's faults for paying so much money for a player who plays a position that so many people can fill. For example, in 2013 Jake Diekman pitched 20 less innings out of the pen, and had a significantly better FIP and xFIP and only had 0.4 less wins, and he made 500K that year.

Which is part of its flaw and why I like WPA.
 

dredinis21

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Had it not fallen off the Giants, and Bonds, would have one more ring.

Then again, they had it won without got Spezio's reverse "Tin Cup" moment against Felix Rodriguez.

Baker taking Ortiz out in game 6 was the nail in the coffin. The rest is a byproduct of that.

I cannot fault Nen and have nothing but admiration for him as he pitched the last 1/4 of the 2002 season with his arm being held on his shoulder by elmer's glue, bubble gum, and a couple rusty staples. Yet until the WS, he showed up and did his job every day. I don't think he was even cracking 90 mph by the WS, which is devastating considering he was 97-99 on the gun when good. He literally gave his arm so that the Giants could be in a position to even BE in the World Series...and he HAD a ring with MIA so he didn't have to do it. He never came back after that.
 
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