2021 Trade Deadline

[calsnowskier]

I think you are right. I think the Killian trade may hurt long term, he looks like a really good pitcher.

And Luciano is younger and at this point better than Canario, so we don't lose much.

With Ramos, Matos and Bishop in the system ahead of him, I don’t think losing Canario is a huge cost. He could be good, I just don’t really expect it.

Maybe the organizational change will do him wonders. And Wrigley is a hitters park…

 

[calsnowskier]

The problem I see with losing both Kilian and Canario is it they are from two areas (starting pitching and outfield) that are a bit weaker in the farm system. I guess FZ is really excited about all the pitchers drafted this year.

Ramos, Matos and Bishop say “hi”…

 

[msgkings322]

I dunno about that. Seems like they let him go at the right time. He's been average this year. Walks are up, strikeouts down. Still, he's a reliable vet.

We needed more in the closer department. But these late trades took FZ's deadline grade from a D to a B-. Didn't fill our main need.

 

[LHG]

Ramos, Matos and Bishop say “hi”…

I didn't say nonexistent. And Bishop needs to produce and stay healthy before I get excited about his potential. Canario at least had some good production under his belt.

 

[LHG]

I that is fair. Though I am not a huge fan of grading trades after the fact. Too often, the context of the trades get lost in those look backs.

Tommy Joseph was a huge hitting prospect when we sent him to the Phil’s for Pence. But he had to retire from catching soon after getting there due to concussions. Hard to factor that into the trade grade. Wheeler turned into a solid #2 level pitcher for 10 years while we only got a couple months of an oft-injured solid bat. But we were in a window, and Chinadoll was the clearly best bat on the market at the time. And the Giants had top flight pitching prospects falling out of our pockets with the lint that falls out when pulling out your wallet. That context gets lost.

The context I see in the current trades is that the team is surprisingly good surprisingly early and the big need seemed to be relief help . . . and maybe a starting pitcher. The farm system, meanwhile, just recently got restocked but had yet to produce any notable players. Pitching, especially, has been a farm system wasteland and Kilian was one of the only upper level guys producing. Both big league players acquired look to help the club, though. That being said, a bat didn't seem to be necessary at the time of the deadline.

 

[filosofy29]

I didn't say nonexistent. And Bishop needs to produce and stay healthy before I get excited about his potential. Canario at least had some good production under his belt.

I feel like you love the prospects we trade and our Luke warm on the ones we keep, lol.

still love ya tho.

 

[stanford the manford]

If Longo isn’t around, I can’t imagine they will prioritize Flores over Bryant at the hot corner. I would imagine he would want to play 3B over the OF as a 3B is more marketable on the FA market anyway.

The only caveat I see here is if they really want to make sure Flores’ bat gets in the lineup. But I can see him getting enough time at 1B, 2B and 3B to not be an issue.

Until Longo and BB get back to pre-injury form, I'd like to see both Vilmar and KB's bats in the lineup. Where they can fit them in is less of a concern. Dik-Dik needs a some time off and Wade will be getting there soon. In Gabe we trust, he'll figure it out

Hopefully SF will be an elixir for KB going into FA. As we've seen, contract years are better than corked bats

 

[Stokes1931]

I have an Excel spreadsheet that is tracking a lot of team stats. One of the stats I am not tracking is how the Giants are faring against LHP starters. I believe, though have no solid data, that we do more poorly against LHP starters than RHP starters. Perhaps Bryant can help in that department.

As I said before, Killian will hurt. But there are some good young arms coming up, they are just a few years away.

Murphy, Jensen, Ragsdale and Harrison look very solid at Low-A San Jose.

Walker looks solid at Eugene (Corry, Teng, Nurse and Philips are all giving up way too many walks. Walker has given up 5 walks in 33 innings, and struck out 47) Too early to tell about Dabovich, who has K'ed 28 in 12 innings, and moved up to Richmond, where he has K'ed 22 in 13 innings, but also given up 6 walks.)

Hjelle and Dabovich at Richmond.

Frisbee dominated at RIchmond, and has gotten pounded in Sacramento (welcome to the PCL!)

Doval, Moronta, Santos, Gudino and Cyr may develop at AAA, but except for Moronta (who hasn't pitched) they are getting pounded, and they are all relievers.

Success stories so far for 2021 are Long, Jackson, Leonne and Webb.

Somewhere in this batch are some MLB arms, and we haven't even looked at the DSL and AZL and the draftees. I think Bednar will help sooner rather than later, and there are some good arms to work with in this draft class.

 

[LHG]

I feel like you love the prospects we trade and our Luke warm on the ones we keep, lol.

still love ya tho.

No but I'm not very excited about guys until I see that they can produce at the minor league level. Its been a few years, but I've stated before that I tend to rank guys who haven't played professional ball lower than what others may rank them. I want to see something good before getting very excited about them. I'm very excited to see Ramos in the big leagues and hope it is sooner than later. He was someone I definitely did not want to see traded.

 

[LHG]

I have an Excel spreadsheet that is tracking a lot of team stats. One of the stats I am not tracking is how the Giants are faring against LHP starters. I believe, though have no solid data, that we do more poorly against LHP starters than RHP starters. Perhaps Bryant can help in that department.

As I said before, Killian will hurt. But there are some good young arms coming up, they are just a few years away.

Murphy, Jensen, Ragsdale and Harrison look very solid at Low-A San Jose.

Walker looks solid at Eugene (Corry, Teng, Nurse and Philips are all giving up way too many walks. Walker has given up 5 walks in 33 innings, and struck out 47) Too early to tell about Dabovich, who has K'ed 28 in 12 innings, and moved up to Richmond, where he has K'ed 22 in 13 innings, but also given up 6 walks.)

Hjelle and Dabovich at Richmond.

Frisbee dominated at RIchmond, and has gotten pounded in Sacramento (welcome to the PCL!)

Doval, Moronta, Santos, Gudino and Cyr may develop at AAA, but except for Moronta (who hasn't pitched) they are getting pounded, and they are all relievers.

Success stories so far for 2021 are Long, Jackson, Leonne and Webb.

Somewhere in this batch are some MLB arms, and we haven't even looked at the DSL and AZL and the draftees. I think Bednar will help sooner rather than later, and there are some good arms to work with in this draft class.

Good stuff Stokes. It should be noted, though, that Jackson is a 33 year old journeyman pitcher. Good story and a great find by FZ and Co, but hardly the type that fits into the prospect role.

 

[calsnowskier]

Apparently, we threw in 2 lotto tickets in the Watson trade…

Jose Marte
Ivan Armstrong

I tried to bring up their BBRef pages, but BBRef has gone to crap the last few years. They desperately need to hire a good web designer.

 

[Stokes1931]

Apparently, we threw in 2 lotto tickets in the Watson trade…

Jose Marte
Ivan Armstrong

I tried to bring up their BBRef pages, but BBRef has gone to crap the last few years. They desperately need to hire a good web designer.

Man, the Marte clan is the new Alou clan, right? There might be a whole team of Marte's out there. Ketel, Starling, Luis, and now Jose. Looks like about 40 Marte's in the minor leagues, and a whole pitching staff of Juans and Jose's.

 

[LHG]

Apparently, we threw in 2 lotto tickets in the Watson trade…

Jose Marte
Ivan Armstrong

I tried to bring up their BBRef pages, but BBRef has gone to crap the last few years. They desperately need to hire a good web designer.

Man, the Marte clan is the new Alou clan, right? There might be a whole team of Marte's out there. Ketel, Starling, Luis, and now Jose. Looks like about 40 Marte's in the minor leagues, and a whole pitching staff of Juans and Jose's.

Well, that may push my trade grade to C+, mainly because the Giants one relief get was a guy who should have never been allowed to leave the team last offseason (he signed a minor league deal with the Phillies at the beginning of spring training, didn't make the team and got picked up on waivers by the Angels just before Opening Day). Three minor leaguers seem a bit much for re-acquiring him.
Jose Marte Minor Leagues Statistics & History | Baseball-Reference.com - Marte is a failed starter going into 2021. I actually expected him to get released but he was instead moved to the bullpen and has been decent this year.
Ivan Armstrong Minor Leagues Statistics & History | Baseball-Reference.com - Armstrong is probably the prize the Angels wanted in this trade. He got bombed in the AZL in 2019 but made the San Jose team and has absolutely killed it this year. He just turned 21 and could eventually make the big leagues.

 

[tzill]

The Giants have a chance to have a terrifying middle of the lineup against lefties once they're healthy.
2021 OPS against LHP:
Evan Longoria -- 1.264
Kris Bryant -- 1.137
Buster Posey -- 1.070
Darin Ruf -- 1.022

 

[msgkings322]

Marty Lurie on the radio right now agreeing with all I've been saying here

 

[tzill]

Kris Bryant has a career .915 OPS against the Dodgers

 

[tzill]

Marty Lurie on the radio right now agreeing with all I've been saying here

Wait, have we ever seen msg and Marty in the same room at the same time?

 

[msgkings322]

Wait, have we ever seen msg and Marty in the same room at the same time?

He also agreed with @calsnowskier on Gausmann, how he found his fastball last night and righted his pitching. Didn't matter of course, the Astros are no joke.

 

[tzill]

He also agreed with @calsnowskier on Gausmann, how he found his fastball last night and righted his pitching. Didn't matter of course, the Astros are no joke.

True, the bullpen made sure it didn't matter.

 

[msgkings322]

True, the bullpen made sure it didn't matter.

The Astros bats had something to do with it as well