Deadline Strategy

[msgkings322]

Is it possible that the White Sox are still a bit scarred from the reception of the White Flag trade that they would be hesitant to deal with the Giants? Even though they were burnt 1000x worse by the Padres in the Shields trade…

No...that was 26 years ago, they've dealt with the Giants plenty since.

Please don't remind me of the Shields trade. One of the worst in history.

 

[LHG]

I mean, sure, if you feel that FZ should be able to predict injury...

His injury happened after he did not perform with the Giants. There wasn't a clear need for the Giants to grab that guy and the cost to get him was steep at the time of the trade. It was a robbery from the beginning.

 

[calsnowskier]

His injury happened after he did not perform with the Giants. There wasn't a clear need for the Giants to grab that guy and the cost to get him was steep at the time of the trade. It was a robbery from the beginning.

I think “robbery” is a bit harsh. I tend to agree with the assessment that it was an unnecessary trade at the time, and it was an apparent over-pay, even at the time (we discussed it here at the time), but I don’t know that Berroa’s ceiling is really enough to ever make a dent in either org.

 

[LHG]

I think “robbery” is a bit harsh. I tend to agree with the assessment that it was an unnecessary trade at the time, and it was an apparent over-pay, even at the time (we discussed it here at the time), but I don’t know that Berroa’s ceiling is really enough to ever make a dent in either org.

That is why I called it a minor robbery in another post.

 

[calsnowskier]

6 in a row.

Granted, streaks are gonna streak, but this is extreme.

Has this influenced FZs plan for this week? (Of course it has.). How? Will he still act “all in” or just window dressing?

I think I am of the opinion that we look at future building (at least 1 additional year of control past this year), and we should pass on Anderson, Gialito, Scherzer, Verlander, etc. Maybe Gialito if he is cheep (he won’t be) and the strategy is to convince him to re-up.

I hate baseball.

 

[LHG]

8 in a row.

Granted, streaks are gonna streak, but this is extreme.

Has this influenced FZs plan for this week? (Of course it has.). How? Will he still act “all in” or just window dressing?

I think I am of the opinion that we look at future building (at least 1 additional year of control past this year), and we should pass on Anderson, Gialito, Scherzer, Verlander, etc. Maybe Gialito if he is cheep (he won’t be) and the strategy is to convince him to re-up.

I hate baseball.

The rumors I'm hearing now is that Scherzer and Verlander aren't available now anyway. The owner seems to want to keep the bigger pieces on the team and ship off lesser players (i.e. Canha).

I haven't delved in too deeply on this but who do you see available with two plus years left and would you (if you were the GM/VP) trade for them?

 

[calsnowskier]

The rumors I'm hearing now is that Scherzer and Verlander aren't available now anyway. The owner seems to want to keep the bigger pieces on the team and ship off lesser players (i.e. Canha).

I haven't delved in too deeply on this but who do you see available with two plus years left and would you (if you were the GM/VP) trade for them?

I don’t collect cards anymore (haven’t in about 30 years now), so I am not even going to venture a guess as to who is available or who should be targeted. Even opining on that requires a full time job’s worth of time to research.

I can take an idea and tweak it, but no way could I come up with my own original idea.

 

[calsnowskier]

We only have 2 SPs of any worth and the offense is just a bunch of kids (true rookies at Catcher, 2B, SS and CF — no way in hell is it possible to compete with that).

I don’t really hate where the team is right now, I just think we need to kick the “all in” down the road 1 year. Let this year’s rookies get a full season under their belts, get the next wave in place (Luciano, Harrison, Black, etc) and then we are cooking with gas!

 

[Hangman]

You all know how I feel. Its better to trade someone away for prospects this year and get that awesome core of young players. We are borderline right now. But if we trade for a good or great player now it should be for someone to put us over the top and World Series viable. Right now we would need a trade to maybe make it past wildcard. Trade a few vets to a team who has a real shot and get key pieces for a World Series run in 2 or 3 years.

 

[calsnowskier]

You all know how I feel. Its better to trade someone away for prospects this year and get that awesome core of young players. We are borderline right now. But if we trade for a good or great player now it should be for someone to put us over the top and World Series viable. Right now we would need a trade to maybe make it past wildcard. Trade a few vets to a team who has a real shot and get key pieces for a World Series run in 2 or 3 years.

No way in hell is this a selling team. If you squint real hard and tilt your head just the right way, only 1 or 2 seasons in the history of the org has ended as a seller. That just isn’t in the Giants’ DNA. Besides, outside of Pedo (maybe), who do we have that is even sellable?

I suspect we will add some MINOR parts as rentals and MAYBE a relatively large non-rental piece. I don’t see us getting Gialito, Anderson, Verlander, Scherzer, Stroman, or Shohei. I would be surprised if we part with Luciano, Harrison, Black, Whisenhunt or Arias. I don’t think we are close enough to put any of those guys on the table.

 

[LHG]

Okay, so let's talk about being sellers. I'm not sure I'm actually for that idea this year (I know, shocker) and I highly doubt the FO would want to do this but let's say the Giants go down that road. Who is actually worth flipping?
First, let's consider who is eligible for free agency this offseason. They are:
John Brebbia
Michael Conforto (player opt out)
Jakob Junis
Sean Manaea (player opt out)
Joc Pederson
Ross Stripling (player opt out)
Alex Wood
I'm not putting Cobb in this group because he has a team option. That is important in trade considerations. Of this group, Brebbia is injured and may not come back in time for serious consideration in a trade (much to tz's chagrin). Junis and Wood haven't looked that good. Maybe a team would ship a C level prospect over for one of them but it may not be worth the consideration. Pederson, however, could find some value with a team needing a bat and the Giants may be able to get a decent return if they pay the rest of his season. Why not?
Then there is Manaea and Stripling. Not only are they struggling pretty badly (minus a couple decent outings recently from Stripling), they have their opt out deals, so if they do well, they walk from their new teams. Why would a team make a gamble on either of these two? What about Conforto? He started out 2023 pretty decently but his hitting has slipped a lot in the past month and his defense isn't that good. I'd say he is in the same spot as the other two.

Then there is the 2024 group:
Alex Cobb (2024 team option)
JD Davis
Wilmer Flores (2025 team option)
Mitch Haniger (player opt out)
Luke Jackson (2025 team option)
Austin Slater
Cobb could have trade potential but some of his underlying numbers are concerning, especially for a pitcher his age. But the Giants may be able to get some value out of dealing him. I think the biggest player that could get a return in this group is Flores. He is hitting well at the right time and has some defensive "versatility" (even if he's not that good defensively). A team may give up a decent prospect for him. Davis, though, has done the opposite. He stopped hitting when it counts. I think he would be worth a pick up by another team but it would be selling low on him.
Jackson just got healthy again and has TJ in his recent past. I don't think it would be worth trying to trade him now. Haniger won't even be ready to go until August and looked bad when he did play this year. Slater is another player that I think should be valued more highly than he would be on the trade market. The Giants' narrative that he is a platoon guy would come back to bite them if they tried to trade him.

In my opinion, there are a couple of guys who could return something decent but it would not be worthwhile to gut the team just to be sellers. Let most of these guys stick around and reset for next year.

 

[calsnowskier]

I understand you are just doing a thought exercise, but we are currently in the playoffs. If FZ decided to sell now, even the ‘97 White Sox would point and laugh.

I am all in on the stand-pat strategy (minor buys).

 

[LHG]

I understand you are just doing a thought exercise, but we are currently in the playoffs. If FZ decided to sell now, even the ‘97 White Sox would point and laugh.

I am all in on the stand-pat strategy (minor buys).

And that is the big reason why I'm not for selling this year. When the team is not doing well, I'm usually all for trading veterans pending free agency to further stock the farm. I don't think it is necessary nor helpful to do this year.

 

[calsnowskier]

And that is the big reason why I'm not for selling this year. When the team is not doing well, I'm usually all for trading veterans pending free agency to further stock the farm. I don't think it is necessary nor helpful to do this year.

The PR price makes it impossible, and the potential prospect gain is next to nothing.

No ROI.

If this team won’t trade Bumgarner or Rodon, they won’t trade anyone.

 

[pachyderm]

From espn:

"While the Cubs have yet to fully commit to dealing away veterans -- they're the only National League Central team with a positive run differential -- even the slightest stumble this week could push them to move arguably the best pitcher available (right-hander Marcus Stroman) and the best everyday player (center fielder Cody Bellinger)."

Stroman...? Anyone...?

Bellinger...? Smack me up with your thoughts...

"The White Sox are clearly in unload mode, with right-hander Lucas Giolito -- right there with Stroman -- and right-handed relievers Reynaldo Lopez and Keynan Middleton headed out. Other free agents to-be include right-hander Lance Lynn, right-handed reliever Joe Kelly, catcher Yasmani Grandal and infielder Elvis Andrus -- all possible candidates to move. And don't forget Kendall Graveman, under contract for another year."

Giolito...? Shoot it around the room...

I really do like Elvis Andrus... 5 years ago or so...

There is more here:

What Jeff Passan is hearing about all 30 teams one week from the MLB trade deadline

Aug. 1 is approaching fast. Here's what your club's front office is thinking.

www.espn.com

 

[pachyderm]

OMG!! FIRST PARAGRAPH !!!!

MLB trade deadline deals we'd like to see: Scherzer, Arenado and Ohtani on the move?

As Aug. 1 approaches, here's our wish list for deals that could rock baseball.

www.espn.com

 

[calsnowskier]

OMG!! FIRST PARAGRAPH !!!!

MLB trade deadline deals we'd like to see: Scherzer, Arenado and Ohtani on the move?

As Aug. 1 approaches, here's our wish list for deals that could rock baseball.

www.espn.com

The first paragraph of the article…

”We're less than a week from the MLB trade deadline and still in search of our first summer blockbuster deal.”

I don’t see the OMG factor of that paragraph…

 

[pachyderm]

The first paragraph of the article…

”We're less than a week from the MLB trade deadline and still in search of our first summer blockbuster deal.”

I don’t see the OMG factor of that paragraph…

I hate you.

The author is saying the SAN FRANCISCO GIANTS should trade for Ohtani.
I thought that was a pretty big deal since it seems most folks on here don't agree with that.

Maybe it was the 4th paragraph.

I dunno. Ok I'm bowing out. Take care.

 

[msgkings322]

Dammit:


Jorge Castillo of the Los Angeles Times reports the Dodgers have engaged the Cardinals in trade discussions for third baseman Nolan Arenado.
Los Angeles certainly has the prospect capital to facilitate a trade, but this would be an absolute stunner. It would also signal the onset of a potential full-scale teardown in St. Louis. The 32-year-old eight-time All-Star has a full-no trade clause and is under contract through the 2027 season.

 

[tzill]

Giants Have Shown Interest In Paul DeJong, Nicky Lopez

The Giants are known to be in search of middle infield help. Two names under consideration: Cardinals shortstop Paul DeJong and …

www.mlbtraderumors.com

One word: yuck.