Deadline Strategy

[calsnowskier]

Dodgers, Mets, lotta teams are bigger players. Or maybe a team that thinks it's worth it to go for it all just this year and not worry about the future, go all in for one ring like perhaps the Orioles or Rays or whatever. Rays would never sign him but they might have enough prospects to say fuck it we got enough in the majors let's get a guy who can get us a ring

I can see a lower-rung team making a stupid deal like that (Sox sending Tatis to the Padres for Shields, for example), but even there, it isn’t going to be FOUR top 100 prospects for one guy. Who was the last deadline asset that fetched even TWO top 100s?

 

[msgkings322]

I can see a lower-rung team making a stupid deal like that (Sox sending Tatis to the Padres for Shields, for example), but even there, it isn’t going to be FOUR top 100 prospects for one guy. Who was the last deadline asset that fetched even TWO top 100s?

Are all four of those Giants guys top 100? That's pretty good didn't know they had that many still

 

[calsnowskier]

Are all four of those Giants guys top 100? That's pretty good didn't know they had that many still

Harrison and Luciano are at the top, and both McCray and Whisenhunt flirt with different lists at the bottom end. All four are blue-chippers, either way. Lists are ultimately little more than click bait.

 

[msgkings322]

On the radio they floated this idea...

We probably could use a middle infielder because Craw looks washed, Estrada is out a while and only one guy, and Schmitt is clearly not ready (batted under .200 in June, under .100 (!) in July...confidence plummeting)

Nolan Arenado is 32 yrs old, still a very good bat and great fielder, has 4 years left on a deal that gets cheaper as he ages and Colorado is paying $5 mil/yr of. To take all that salary the Giants could probably trade a couple middling prospects for him (perhaps Schmitt himself being one of them)

Immediately puts a middle of the order bat in there, and once you get Estrada back that's a pretty good lineup.

I wouldn't mind, Giants have deep pockets, this is how you use them.

Does it 'block' Luciano? Hardly, Davis isn't exactly Mike Schmidt. Or maybe Luciano is the 'acquisition' you get but I don't want to repeat the too early call up that Schmitt got. We got enough youth, need a legit #3 veteran and a veteran SS/3B type

 

[LHG]

On the radio they floated this idea...

We probably could use a middle infielder because Craw looks washed, Estrada is out a while and only one guy, and Schmitt is clearly not ready (batted under .200 in June, under .100 (!) in July...confidence plummeting)

Nolan Arenado is 32 yrs old, still a very good bat and great fielder, has 4 years left on a deal that gets cheaper as he ages and Colorado is paying $5 mil/yr of. To take all that salary the Giants could probably trade a couple middling prospects for him.

Immediately puts a middle of the order bat in there, and once you get Estrada back that's a pretty good lineup.

I wouldn't mind, Giants have deep pockets, this is how you use them.

Does it 'block' Luciano? Hardly, Davis isn't exactly Mike Schmidt. Or maybe Luciano is the 'acquisition' you get but I don't want to repeat the too early call up that Schmitt got. We got enough youth, need a legit #3 veteran and a veteran SS/3B type

I'd be okay with this trade. Davis has cooled off significantly. Maybe he could get back on track but Arenado could be a reasonable acquisition in terms of cost.

 

[calsnowskier]

That wouldn’t solve our middle infield issues. Arenado is a 3B, not a SS. I suppose you could move Davis to 2B, and ultimately put Estrada at SS, but that seems to me to be a LOT of moving parts.

I would love to get a player of Arenado’s caliber, I just don’t really see the fit.

I am more of a fan of trying to get Giolito AND Anderson from the ‘Hose. Giolito is young and can be a resign target and Anderson has the track record of solid play.

 

[LHG]

That wouldn’t solve our middle infield issues. Arenado is a 3B, not a SS. I suppose you could move Davis to 2B, and ultimately put Estrada at SS, but that seems to me to be a LOT of moving parts.

I would love to get a player of Arenado’s caliber, I just don’t really see the fit.

I am more of a fan of trying to get Giolito AND Anderson from the ‘Hose. Giolito is young and can be a resign target and Anderson has the track record of solid play.

I find Anderson's plunging offensive numbers troubling. It could be a blip but unless the cost is low, I don't see a good reason to get him. Giolito, I think is an okay pickup, for the right cost but his numbers this year are a bit concerning but not nearly at the level of Anderson.

 

[calsnowskier]

I find Anderson's plunging offensive numbers troubling. It could be a blip but unless the cost is low, I don't see a good reason to get him. Giolito, I think is an okay pickup, for the right cost but his numbers this year are a bit concerning but not nearly at the level of Anderson.

MSG mentioned that Anderson wants out of the South Side, so he may just be checked out. I am not a fan of the guy, but IF he is amenable to coming he could be a good reclamation project.

I floated the idea of Bart and Ramos for Anderson and Giolito. We may need to throw in another lotto ticket or something, but I think that is a close enough deal to start talking.

 

[LHG]

MSG mentioned that Anderson wants out of the South Side, so he may just be checked out. I am not a fan of the guy, but IF he is amenable to coming he could be a good reclamation project.

I floated the idea of Bart and Ramos for Anderson and Giolito. We may need to throw in another lotto ticket or something, but I think that is a close enough deal to start talking.

Have you looked at Anderson's numbers? His OPS+ has gone down from a career high 140 in 2020 to 118 (2021) to 109 (2022) to 50(!) this year. If distractions have that big of an impact on him, what will keep him from being distracted with SF?

Okay, maybe if the Giants say "Chicago, we'll take on the contracts of both Anderson and Giolito and trade you a couple of C level prospects" I'd be okay with it. Not sure I like shipping Bart, Ramos plus another for them. Maybe Bart, Simon Whiteman and Chris Wright for those two, while taking on their remaining contracts. They owe Anderson 12.5m and Giolito 10.4m. Covering a bulk of that should go a long way.

Oh, and I need to correct my concern about Giolito. It was his numbers last year that were concerning. He seems to have bounced back okay this year.

 

[calsnowskier]

Have you looked at Anderson's numbers? His OPS+ has gone down from a career high 140 in 2020 to 118 (2021) to 109 (2022) to 50(!) this year. If distractions have that big of an impact on him, what will keep him from being distracted with SF?

Okay, maybe if the Giants say "Chicago, we'll take on the contracts of both Anderson and Giolito and trade you a couple of C level prospects" I'd be okay with it. Not sure I like shipping Bart, Ramos plus another for them. Maybe Bart, Simon Whiteman and Chris Wright for those two, while taking on their remaining contracts. They owe Anderson 12.5m and Giolito 10.4m. Covering a bulk of that should go a long way.

Oh, and I need to correct my concern about Giolito. It was his numbers last year that were concerning. He seems to have bounced back okay this year.

Anderson has a 14m club option for ‘24 with a 1M buyout. Right now I assume the Sox will not be picking up his option. If we were to acquire him, we would be able to get to know him for the last few months of this season and decide is he should be retained or not. I am not a fan of his, but I am willing to give him a go because he HAS played well in the past. I think he is a shit-stirrer and is ultimately too “it’s all about me”, but maybe I am wrong.

Giolito is a pending FA and is only 28. Give him a taste of Oracle and try to lock him down on a longer contract. He could step in as our #2 moving forward with Black, Harrison, Roupp and Whisenhunt coming to round out the rotation.

Bart, I think, still has prospect-value. He would be the real in the package we are sending. Ramos is a former top 100 and a former 1st rounder. Teams would be happy to have a go at salvaging his career.

 

[msgkings322]

That wouldn’t solve our middle infield issues. Arenado is a 3B, not a SS. I suppose you could move Davis to 2B, and ultimately put Estrada at SS, but that seems to me to be a LOT of moving parts.

I would love to get a player of Arenado’s caliber, I just don’t really see the fit.

I am more of a fan of trying to get Giolito AND Anderson from the ‘Hose. Giolito is young and can be a resign target and Anderson has the track record of solid play.

I dunno, looks good longer term too, 3B Arenado SS Luciano 2B Estrada for a couple years....

 

[tzill]

That wouldn’t solve our middle infield issues. Arenado is a 3B, not a SS. I suppose you could move Davis to 2B, and ultimately put Estrada at SS, but that seems to me to be a LOT of moving parts.

I would love to get a player of Arenado’s caliber, I just don’t really see the fit.

I am more of a fan of trying to get Giolito AND Anderson from the ‘Hose. Giolito is young and can be a resign target and Anderson has the track record of solid play.

Same same. He's really good and for a decent price I think we could do this but we'd need to move a few people around and I'm not sure at the end of the day it'd be best.

Great idea though.

 

[tzill]

I find Anderson's plunging offensive numbers troubling. It could be a blip but unless the cost is low, I don't see a good reason to get him. Giolito, I think is an okay pickup, for the right cost but his numbers this year are a bit concerning but not nearly at the level of Anderson.

I don't think we can get Giolito for a decent price. There are going to be several teams in on him.

 

[LHG]

I don't think we can get Giolito for a decent price. There are going to be several teams in on him.

Unfortunately, that is true. The White Sox will probably rob whoever lands him.

 

[tzill]

Unfortunately, that is true. The White Sox will probably rob whoever lands him.

And if we know anything about FZ....he won't be robbed.

 

[LHG]

And if we know anything about FZ....he won't be robbed.

Except in the Donovan Walton trade but that could be a minor robbery.

 

[tzill]

Except in the Donovan Walton trade but that could be a minor robbery.

I mean, sure, if you feel that FZ should be able to predict injury...

 

[msgkings322]

I don't think we can get Giolito for a decent price. There are going to be several teams in on him.

Yep...from the Athletic:

1. Los Angeles Dodgers​

Trade partner: Chicago White Sox
Targets: RHP Lucas Giolito, RHP Kendall Graveman, SS Tim Anderson

The Dodgers have the second-best record in the National League, but they understand they’ll probably be in a pennant race until the bitter end with the Diamondbacks and Giants, and maybe even the Padres if they get hot. The Dodgers have a pressing need to improve their pitching staff, both the rotation and the bullpen. Their starters rank ninth in the NL in collective ERA and their bullpen ranks 10th. The Dodgers also could use an upgrade at shortstop. They are an obvious trade match with the White Sox, who have players to fit all three needs.

Giolito will be a free agent after this season, and the White Sox are going to move him by the deadline. He struggled in his last outing against the Mets, allowing eight runs in 3 2/3 innings, but has posted a 3.96 ERA in 20 starts and been worth 2.3 WAR, according to Baseball Reference. He grew up in Southern California, so might also be willing to sign a long-term contract with Los Angeles in the offseason. Graveman, who is signed through 2024, would give the Dodgers another back-end type reliever. He’s logged a 3.07 ERA in 42 appearances with eight saves in as many opportunities. The final piece that would make sense for Los Angeles is Tim Anderson, who’s having a down year, batting .231/.268/.271 with only 11 extra-base hits in 313 plate appearances. However, a change of scenery might be what he needs. Last year he hit .301 in 79 games and was a perfect 13-for-13 in stolen-base attempts. Anderson has a $14 million team option for 2024.

In return, the Dodgers could offer one of their top two catching prospects, Diego Cartaya or Dalton Rushing, as the headliner, along with one of their second-base prospects, Jorbit Vivas or Rayne Doncon, and a starting pitching prospect such as Gavin Stone or Michael Grove. Other prospect combinations could work. The Dodgers’ system is so deep there are many variations to make a deal like this work for both sides.

 

[calsnowskier]

Yep...from the Athletic:

1. Los Angeles Dodgers​

Trade partner: Chicago White Sox
Targets: RHP Lucas Giolito, RHP Kendall Graveman, SS Tim Anderson

The Dodgers have the second-best record in the National League, but they understand they’ll probably be in a pennant race until the bitter end with the Diamondbacks and Giants, and maybe even the Padres if they get hot. The Dodgers have a pressing need to improve their pitching staff, both the rotation and the bullpen. Their starters rank ninth in the NL in collective ERA and their bullpen ranks 10th. The Dodgers also could use an upgrade at shortstop. They are an obvious trade match with the White Sox, who have players to fit all three needs.

Giolito will be a free agent after this season, and the White Sox are going to move him by the deadline. He struggled in his last outing against the Mets, allowing eight runs in 3 2/3 innings, but has posted a 3.96 ERA in 20 starts and been worth 2.3 WAR, according to Baseball Reference. He grew up in Southern California, so might also be willing to sign a long-term contract with Los Angeles in the offseason. Graveman, who is signed through 2024, would give the Dodgers another back-end type reliever. He’s logged a 3.07 ERA in 42 appearances with eight saves in as many opportunities. The final piece that would make sense for Los Angeles is Tim Anderson, who’s having a down year, batting .231/.268/.271 with only 11 extra-base hits in 313 plate appearances. However, a change of scenery might be what he needs. Last year he hit .301 in 79 games and was a perfect 13-for-13 in stolen-base attempts. Anderson has a $14 million team option for 2024.

In return, the Dodgers could offer one of their top two catching prospects, Diego Cartaya or Dalton Rushing, as the headliner, along with one of their second-base prospects, Jorbit Vivas or Rayne Doncon, and a starting pitching prospect such as Gavin Stone or Michael Grove. Other prospect combinations could work. The Dodgers’ system is so deep there are many variations to make a deal like this work for both sides.

I am completely unfamiliar with any of the names mentioned from the doggie POV, so I don’t know how to compare to what the Giants would be offering as a similar value. But again, both Bart and Ramos are “ready now” prospects who are just blocked (and out of favor) in the Giants system. Both are former 1st rounders and top 100 prospects.

 

[calsnowskier]

Is it possible that the White Sox are still a bit scarred from the reception of the White Flag trade that they would be hesitant to deal with the Giants? Even though they were burnt 1000x worse by the Padres in the Shields trade…