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Dak Prescott

Earl Stevens

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Long post right back at ya:thumb:


"I'm not sure about Moore. It's still Garrett's offense which is what people are tending to forget."

Totally agree and that was what I said from day one. But we have already seen him attempt to make some of the changes I've longed for: more motion, stopping the predictable sets, spread out things and then run so Zeke has space, Dak running more, use of more pick/rub plays, etc. We have also heard about throwing down field more. That one we need to wait and see on, but a lot of rumors said that was on Dak a little too so we'll see what happens. As far as Moore goes he was IMO a failure last year (first year so doesn't mean he couldn't improve) as a QB coach. But maybe this is more his thing. I've gone from shaking my head at the decision, to wait and see, to now being a little excited to watching how he does. Maybe being a fan is getting the best of me or maybe I just like what I hear.

"The coaches need to make decisions easier for Dak when he drops back the same way McVay makes it for Goff so he isn't getting sacked 60 times behind a pretty solid Oline. "

That's the pre-snap movement and Kitna's day to day coaching with Dak. Dak struggled reading the defenses too often and that was a root cause of his not finding open guys from time to time. Part of that was the team making it hard on him with no motion and predictability and part was Dak just not doing it for whatever reason. Hopefully he can learn with a good teacher. I think using Pollard and Austin and Cobb and Zeke in space and more slants and less curls will help too. You need to give Dak some wide open options that can turn short passes into big plays. This will not only open up the offense and make the defense not be able to just sit on all our routes will little worry about giving up big plays but will also give him options to come back to after he checks out the big play options that can still net us a first down. The OL also needs to be better in Pass protection. I know you don't like to hear this but they were poor last year in pass protection.

"Garrett's offense makes things not only tougher on the QB, but everyone else as well. He's asking Zeke to constantly run straight into 8 man boxes. Receivers are constantly asked to get open on their own in isolation and are rarely ever schemed open. There are several plays each game where every Cowboy WR runs a comeback route and the defense just sits on it and people expect the QB and his WRs to just make something out of nothing."

Again, all of those changes have already been showing themselves in OTAs. How much have we already heard about running out a 10 set in the red zone. The better the OL, the more time to throw downfield and Dak needs to learn to shift in the pocket and keep looking downfield as compared to abrupt movements that impact his ability to keep his eyes downfield and his technique. Kitna has already talked about this. I think Dak is about as willing a student as there is in the league and he will take the constructive coaching and get better.

I absolutely think we will see a more effective PAP game this year like we did in 2016. That comes from a dominant run game and also from having receivers that can get open. You keep stressing "Garrett's Offense" and that's half right but our receivers couldn't get open for shit the last 2 years and that wasn't all on the Offense. Once Cooper came to down everything changed and the Offense didn't look so horrible any more. Gallup will be better and Cobb will help. Our WRs were just too slow. They didn't scare anyone and defense never feared getting beat deep so they moved up the safeties and clogged the middle of the field against the run and the pass. That changes this year and honestly I hope we see as much of Jarwin in the passing game as we do Witten. I love the guy but he just can't run. I play him on 3rd and medium and let him do what it is he is a legend at and in 3rd and long we need to get Jarwin out there instead some. I think we may see that stale old Offense do a lot better this year with more speed and creativity and less predictability with our sets and I'm sure just like Linehan did, Moore will put his stamp on it and Moore's won't make a boring, safe Offense even more so. I think he will add some excitement and electricity.

I want to be optimistic about what has been happening in OTAs, but you can't read much into OTAs. Remember it was this time last year we heard about the "Dak friendly offense" and how everybody looked good in OTAs and training camp. None of that stuff means anything until the games matter. The first game of the season our offense looked absolutely terrible and it kicked off a horrible stretch of games of bad offensive play. Anything that has been said by coaches(and Jerry and Stephen) is just lip service and anything happening in OTAs doesn't mean much at this point. I wanna see what Kellen Moore does in actual games that matter. What he does when the defense is showing a specific look. What he does when the offense is struggling to put points on the board. What kind of half time adjustments he makes. What he does in situational football. I don't really care about what he's doing in OTAs. There's nothing wrong with seeing the glass half full with Kellen Moore, but at the end of the day, it's still Garrett's concepts and that bothers me.
 

PDay8810

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after 20 plus years, all fans can do is be optimistic. You can analyse it all you want but the fact is, nobody knows for sure. So yes, at this point it's either seeing the glass half full or half empty.

this team has been extremely slow to respond to the obvious, and that's what's been painful for Dallas fans. I have no question that Kellen Moore is a step in the right direction. Sure we want to see it translate to the actual games but you gotta walk before you run...that's OTA,s, and training camp. To me...they matter greatly.

I think Garrett is a smart man and see's the writing on the wall. There aren't many Tom Landry's out there, even Jimmy knew he needed a Norm and Wanstead to make the dream a reality.

Keep the faith Earl....this isn't the time to be skeptical about changes long over due.
 

Godstree

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I can understand if people don't read this post because it's way too long and I have a bad habit of rambling but I just feel like this stuff needs to be said.

I'm not sure about Moore. It's still Garrett's offense which is what people are tending to forget. I read in a recent article that Moore is gonna run a lot of the same concepts as before, but with added shifts and more motions. I honestly don't like the way that sounds. That just sounds like adding candy sprinkles to shit to me. Garrett's offense has been outdated for a while now. His offense is all about isolation routes and intermediate throws. Something that is fine with a veteran QB like Romo who was a better pure passer, who would take more chances throwing into coverage, and had more power to change his plays. Not a 4th year QB who still has some rawness to his game, who doesn't always let the ball fly quick enough, and who refuses to throw into coverage much. The Cowboys need to be more play-action-oriented, more screen based, and attack teams down the field a lot more. And when they get to the red zone, this is when they break out read-option. The Dak and Zeke read-option is literally unstoppable yet the Cowboys don't run it nearly enough in the red zone.

The coaches need to make decisions easier for Dak when he drops back the same way McVay makes it for Goff so he isn't getting sacked 60 times behind a pretty solid Oline. Comeback routes, isolation routes, and intermediate routes don't take full advantage of the new rules that hurt pass defenses. And they don't do anything to help a young QB because Garrett's scheme constantly calls for the QB to throw the ball into the thick of coverage. This is what Andy Reid and his coaching tree does. They run heavy screens and attack the defense down the field a ton, schemes receivers open, and take full advantage of new rules that help offenses out. That makes things easier on the QB to make decisions and the QB isn't always throwing into the thick of coverage. Mahomes had a phenomenal season but what a lot of people don't know is that 17 of Mahomes TD passes didn't travel more than two yards in the air. Reid makes things so much easier for his QBs. Garrett is the complete opposite. People always say well Dak has Zeke and that Oline and they make him look good and makes things easier. That's true somewhat, but that has nothing to do with what is happening when Dak has to assess the D during a pass dropback.

Garrett's offense makes things not only tougher on the QB, but everyone else as well. He's asking Zeke to constantly run straight into 8 man boxes. Receivers are constantly asked to get open on their own in isolation and are rarely ever schemed open. There are several plays each game where every Cowboy WR runs a comeback route and the defense just sits on it and people expect the QB and his WRs to just make something out of nothing. I was far too critical of Dez. Dez wasn't the best of route runners and in Garrett's offense that exposes you because Garrett's offense doesn't do his receivers any favors because his offense rarely schemes WRs open. The Oline is asked to block a DL that the majority of the time knows where the play is going. When the DLine knows where to go from point A to point B, it makes blocking tougher. There's a reason why so many people including former players say Garrett's offense is predictable. No matter who calls the plays, the concepts are still the same. The fact that Dak makes it work with great efficiency in spite of Garrett's scheme lets me know this guy is a good QB. Which is why I defend him so much. It can't be stated enough how phenomenal Zeke is running behind the most predictable offense in football while seeing 8 man fronts all game.

And I just can't help but think of how bad Romo had it. Romo's best and most memorable plays were of the improvisational variety, not anything schemed by Garrett. Many people truly don't realize how special Romo was. He and Witten made a bad offense work. Romo and even Dak to an extent were/are so good in the 4th quarter because when the Cowboys have no choice but to abandon Garrett's gameplan and scheme, the offense looks much better. That's not a coincidence. Many people forget that Romo and the Cowboys would struggle mightily for three quarters very often in the Garrett/Romo era only for them to wake up in the 4th quarter. Is it a coincidence that in seemingly every playoff game, the Cowboys offense is sluggish for most if not all of the game? That's the Garrett era for you. I'm fine with Garrett as head coach as long as we could completely abandon his scheme.

When you have the best back in football like the Cowboys do, you should be running playaction as much as the Rams do with Gurley, which is nearly every play it seems. When you have a QB who is as ultra efficient with his feet as Dak is, you should be turning to read-option a lot more in the red zone. The Cowboys make everything so hard for themselves by continuing to run Garrett's outdated offense. Just watching how opposing defenses sit on comeback routes and stack 8-9 men in the box on the regular while the Cowboys just continue to try to push an elephant through an elevator instead of attacking the D over the top is nauseating. And even with Moore, I don't think that is gonna change that much because it's still Garrett's offense. Remember we thought it would change with Linehan. It didn't. People were praising Linehan for 2014, but really the addition of Zack Martin and the play of the offensive line and our skill players is what was really the difference. That Oline was amazing in 2014. Murray was amazing. Romo to Dez was unstoppable. Romo had a little more control of the offense. All of that masked Linehan's deficiencies and the flaws of Garrett's scheme. It was the same concepts as Garrett, but with more emphasis on running. The same thing happened again in 2016 when Dak and Zeke stormed into the NFL. They along with great Oline play masked Linehan's deficiencies again and of course Garrett's flawed scheme. I'm fine with giving coaches chances to improve themselves, but I've seen 11 years of Garrett's offense to know that it just doesn't work unless the stars align. The offensive scheme should have been completely overhauled years ago.

I just recommend this to my book of the month club.
 

jarntt

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Anyone follow this? Agree/Disagree? I would have assumed more than 15 would have been on the QB
 

Sir Robin Of Camelot

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Anyone follow this? Agree/Disagree? I would have assumed more than 15 would have been on the QB

I’ve been putting off reading this until the weekend. I’m looking forward to quality reading while living in an RV for a few weeks.
 

Sir Robin Of Camelot

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Meanwhile, the market price for QB’s is now set.

 

Schmoopy1000

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Dak's agent is dancing in the streets. Dak has been better than Wentz across the board
but without the pedigree.
I am hoping that keeps Dak in the 30 to 32 mil range now. :(
 

Sir Robin Of Camelot

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Dak's agent is dancing in the streets. Dak has been better than Wentz across the board

Yep. It would have been nice to have gotten Dak for $30M average. That ain’t happening now. $32M is the new $30M.
 

ArlingtonCowboys100

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Wentz is a good Qb, but the guy seems to have Sam Bradford type of luck. Always hurt and the Cowboys front 7 is going to be all over him,unless he gets hurt in pre season
 

PDay8810

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Yep. It would have been nice to have gotten Dak for $30M average. That ain’t happening now. $32M is the new $30M.
sadly I think this might be right. It's understandable for teams to wait and ask players to prove it but the money only goes up. I'm holding out hope that Dallas structures a deal kinda like DLAW....not the most money but heavy on guaranteed cash that is front loaded in the first two to three years. Wentz got 107 in guaranteed money, I think Dallas will match that if not go a little higher
 

Manster7588

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sadly I think this might be right. It's understandable for teams to wait and ask players to prove it but the money only goes up. I'm holding out hope that Dallas structures a deal kinda like DLAW....not the most money but heavy on guaranteed cash that is front loaded in the first two to three years. Wentz got 107 in guaranteed money, I think Dallas will match that if not go a little higher

I'm still holding out hope that Daks words saying he understands others need to be paid too isn't just lip service.
With the last two QB contracts being signed I can see 30M as a team discount.
That 25M once suggested that some said was too high would look REALLY NICE now.
 

PDay8810

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I'm still holding out hope that Daks words saying he understands others need to be paid too isn't just lip service.
With the last two QB contracts being signed I can see 30M as a team discount.
That 25M once suggested that some said was too high would look REALLY NICE now.
I was one thinking 25M per....that sure looks low now. Dak would be kinda stupid to sign for that now, but as I posted, maybe a whole bunch in guaranteed money and more years that pushes the average per at 28M....that would be about as team friendly as you could get now
 

Manster7588

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I was one thinking 25M per....that sure looks low now. Dak would be kinda stupid to sign for that now, but as I posted, maybe a whole bunch in guaranteed money and more years that pushes the average per at 28M....that would be about as team friendly as you could get now
If they can get him for 28 per I'm doing back flips. Bad back and all. It's possible but I don't see it anymore.
 

scotsman1948

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If they can get him for 28 per I'm doing back flips. Bad back and all. It's possible but I don't see it anymore.
apparently he has some animosity toward the Cowboys for drafting him late in the draft costing him money. even though i think 26-28M AAV would be a fair deal (5 years 130 to 140M with 110M guaranteed) I now expect that nothing short of 32 to 35M AAV (5 years 160 to 175M) will get him signed. and it bothers me about the possible effects that will come with paying him that much.
 

Manster7588

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apparently he has some animosity toward the Cowboys for drafting him late in the draft costing him money. even though i think 26-28M AAV would be a fair deal (5 years 130 to 140M with 110M guaranteed) I now expect that nothing short of 32 to 35M AAV (5 years 160 to 175M) will get him signed. and it bothers me about the possible effects that will come with paying him that much.
Well then he should have animosity towards 31 other teams also.

He was seen as a long term project and surprised everybody.
 

scotsman1948

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Well then he should have animosity towards 31 other teams also.

He was seen as a long term project and surprised everybody.
no argument but he seems to feel that the Cowboys have shortchanged him. there were 6 QB's taken before him (Goff, Wentz, Lynch, Hackenberg, Brissett & Kessler) and if I remember the Cowboys took him at 135. so he's making 2+M this coming season while Goff and Wentz are making that per game
 

Manster7588

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no argument but he seems to feel that the Cowboys have shortchanged him. there were 6 QB's taken before him (Goff, Wentz, Lynch, Hackenberg, Brissett & Kessler) and if I remember the Cowboys took him at 135. so he's making 2+M this coming season while Goff and Wentz are making that per game
Too bad teams don't have crystal balls at their disposal.
If he's going to use that as an excuse fuck him. He was taken by Dallas before any other team did.
 

Manster7588

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Let me add that if Dak didn't get a DUI just before the draft he'd probably had gone much earlier.
 

scotsman1948

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Let me add that if Dak didn't get a DUI just before the draft he'd probably had gone much earlier.
cowboys might have had to go for him at 67 or 101 instead of Maliek Collins and Charles Tapper. instead they thought he would be there at 135 and went for defense
 
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