D-Backs acquire a "Left Fielder"

[SF11704]

You know, maybe I'm naive but I truly think at some point other considerations than top dollar come into play. Not for every guy of course, but at super high numbers squeezing out another couple million isn't always top priority.

Maybe Pence could have gotten a couple mil more a year from another team, but after taxes does his life change really if he pockets $8 mil instead of $7 mil a year? Meanwhile he gets stability and signs where he's comfortable, and beloved, and has won a ring. Would it be worth it to sign somewhere else, and have to start over, for that extra spending $? Again for some guys sure, but I just get the sense Pence factors in more than just that.

I agree that when Pence signed with us he didn't sigh for the money. He signed because he wanted to play in SF and he thought that the offer was fair. But, I still think that as these winter meeting progress and offers hit the table he will will wonder if he did in fact under-value his full worth. I don't think he will be unhappy. He likes it here and is happy with the deal. Just makes one wonder .... what is a fair offer these days?

 

[MarcoPolo]

I was thinking of older contracts. Rowand. Gary Matthews, Jr. (who went elsewhere). Juan Pierre (who went elsewhere). Uribe (current contract) - who went elsewhere (thank God). Dave Roberts (who didn't go elsewhere, unfortunately). Aurilia (last contract). Durham (last contract). etc.

Sabes often hits the market early, having decided who he has to have, and throws (well, threw) money at the player in question. That is based on recollection(s) of reports of years long ago, hearing the rising offers made to players as they continue to say no.

 

[The Derski]

It gives us a power bat to protect Goldy in the lineup. In our park Trumbo will probably drop 40 dingers a season. I know his avg isn't great but being in a hitters park won't hurt that. If you remember when Jason Kubel joined AZ everyone was down on his defense but he came in and played a fine left field and actually broke the club record for outfield assists in a season. I'm going to miss Eaton and Skaggs but I think you guys are making this out to be a terrible trade when I think its not bad at all.

 

[Heathbar012]

I was thinking of older contracts. Rowand. Gary Matthews, Jr. (who went elsewhere). Juan Pierre (who went elsewhere). Uribe (current contract) - who went elsewhere (thank God). Dave Roberts (who didn't go elsewhere, unfortunately). Aurilia (last contract). Durham (last contract). etc.

Sabes often hits the market early, having decided who he has to have, and throws (well, threw) money at the player in question. That is based on recollection(s) of reports of years long ago, hearing the rising offers made to players as they continue to say no.

Those sting, but I think that era is over... for now. You're right to be apprehensive, but there is so much more analysis and data behind these signings now. Combined with traditional scouting, an argument can now be made for almost any contract. And, of course, hindsight is always 20/20.

 

[Heathbar012]

It gives us a power bat to protect Goldy in the lineup. In our park Trumbo will probably drop 40 dingers a season. I know his avg isn't great but being in a hitters park won't hurt that. If you remember when Jason Kubel joined AZ everyone was down on his defense but he came in and played a fine left field and actually broke the club record for outfield assists in a season. I'm going to miss Eaton and Skaggs but I think you guys are making this out to be a terrible trade when I think its not bad at all.

You're right, but I think most people are down on the philosophy (or lack thereof). In AZ, it seems like the roster policy is to plug holes by opening up other ones. Some of that is inevitable and necessary, but with each passing year since about 2003, it looks to me like the front office is just filling one facet of an area that they had covered the year before with a new problem all set up for next offseason. Granted, it's still early, so they could surprise me, but for now, it simply looks like they're re-arranging the seats on a third-place team that is a long-shot for the second Wild Card.

 

[SF11704]

Mmmm .... according to ESPN we have inquired about the David Price sweepstakes .... but haven't talked with TB at all ..... doesn't make much sense after the Voggy and Huddy signings ... but who the hell knows what these reporters are referring too .... maybe trying to get a guage on what the Doggies are doing

 

[SFGRTB]

It gives us a power bat to protect Goldy in the lineup. In our park Trumbo will probably drop 40 dingers a season. I know his avg isn't great but being in a hitters park won't hurt that. If you remember when Jason Kubel joined AZ everyone was down on his defense but he came in and played a fine left field and actually broke the club record for outfield assists in a season. I'm going to miss Eaton and Skaggs but I think you guys are making this out to be a terrible trade when I think its not bad at all.

He's going to hit home runs, yes. Outside of that, his value is pretty low. I think it's a decent fit for them, but I didn't like what they gave up. Skaggs AND Eaton? They should have traded for Price if they were willing to hand out prospects like that.

Kubel did not play a fine LF, he had negative WAR out there both season. Good for him though, he has a good arm that people are willing to run on. That is not a good way at all to measure one's defense. Did he break the AZ record for catching balls in the gap too? Or holding doubles to singles?

 

[redseat]

Again, why did they trade Upton then?

 

[The Derski]

Again, why did they trade Upton then?

Because Upton was/is a bad clubhouse guy. Streaky hitter where his cold streaks are always longer than his hot streaks. Compare Martin Prado's 2013 season to Justin Upton's and get back to me.

 

[The Derski]

He's going to hit home runs, yes. Outside of that, his value is pretty low. I think it's a decent fit for them, but I didn't like what they gave up. Skaggs AND Eaton? They should have traded for Price if they were willing to hand out prospects like that.

Kubel did not play a fine LF, he had negative WAR out there both season. Good for him though, he has a good arm that people are willing to run on. That is not a good way at all to measure one's defense. Did he break the AZ record for catching balls in the gap too? Or holding doubles to singles?

I don't care about negative WAR. He passed the eye test. Throw out all that mumbo jumbo WAR crap.

 

[tzill]

It gives us a power bat to protect Goldy in the lineup. In our park Trumbo will probably drop 40 dingers a season. I know his avg isn't great but being in a hitters park won't hurt that. If you remember when Jason Kubel joined AZ everyone was down on his defense but he came in and played a fine left field and actually broke the club record for outfield assists in a season. I'm going to miss Eaton and Skaggs but I think you guys are making this out to be a terrible trade when I think its not bad at all.

Well, Trumbo ain't Kubel -- he's a defensive liability. I'm not trying to yuck your yum. I think Trumbo will be productive for you but I think you gave up more than you're getting. But, the offseason is long and the Backs aren't done yet.

 

[tzill]

Mmmm .... according to ESPN we have inquired about the David Price sweepstakes .... but haven't talked with TB at all ..... doesn't make much sense after the Voggy and Huddy signings ... but who the hell knows what these reporters are referring too .... maybe trying to get a guage on what the Doggies are doing

We'd have to trade Cain to another team. Not sure that would be worth giving up Crick+.

 

[SFGRTB]

I don't care about negative WAR. He passed the eye test. Throw out all that mumbo jumbo WAR crap.

You cannot be serious and tell me Kubel plays a fine LF. The eye test and WAR will tell you he's bad.

We're getting off course here anyway, Trumbo is not Kubel bad. I just don't like what AZ had to give up for him. If the Giants made that trade I'd probably be kinda pissed at first. But dingerz are a good alleviate to a lot of baseball problems, even though they cover up a lot of shortcomings.

He'll be fun to watch, but in a Mark Reynolds kind of way (but even more aggressive).

 

[JahiiCarson_SqodGeneral]

He hit over 30 homers. All take that anyday, we need more pop in the lineup and guys like Trumbo who can change momentum it was what we were lacking last year.

 

[MarcoPolo]

I had the "OMG! Look! 34 HRs" discussion with a guy on another board recently. He is blinded by HRs. He wasn't happy when I called Trumbo a one-trick pony. He was insulted when I suggested he should leave the 1970s for the 21st century.

Trumbo *will* hit HRs - especially in the snakepit with its low fences. But his deficiencies really take away from his HRs. Low AVG. career OBP under .300. Not much speed. And most importantly : really, really poor defense. He really should be a DH, where his defensive stink won't pollute his worth.

Edit: Ooops, I forgot to mention his 'clutch' performance in '13 (with RISP : .222 /.282 /.420 /.702). That's worse than his stats for the season, in every respect.

 

[tzill]

Just noodling the Price v. Cain scenario:

Price: LHP 27; 3 year ERA+ avg 124, 3 year WAR avg 4.2; projected $13MM this year $17MM next.
Cain: RHP 28; 110, 2.7; $20.8MM the next four seasons.

In the abstract, sure. But a couple of mitigating factors:
1. Cain had his career worst year last year which skews his 3 year averages. His previous three years are 124, 4.1.
2. He's one of the faces of the franchise; not sure what message it would send to the clubhouse if he were traded, say, to the Yanka$$.

 

[calsnowskier]

Just noodling the Price v. Cain scenario:

Price: LHP 27; 3 year ERA+ avg 124, 3 year WAR avg 4.2; projected $13MM this year $17MM next.
Cain: RHP 28; 110, 2.7; $20.8MM the next four seasons.

In the abstract, sure. But a couple of mitigating factors:
1. Cain had his career worst year last year which skews his 3 year averages. His previous three years are 124, 4.1.
2. He's one of the faces of the franchise; not sure what message it would send to the clubhouse if he were traded, say, to the Yanka$$.

Just to play devils advocate...

We talk a lot about trends here and look at a guy's "last year" to place value on his future effectiveness. But here, you make a caveat about Cain's "last year" as an outlier instead of a trend.

I agree it is more of a bmp in the road than a whole new street, but the difference in take should be noted.

 

[tzill]

I don't care about negative WAR. He passed the eye test. Throw out all that mumbo jumbo WAR crap.

Anytime someone says "don't give me that [insert advanced metric]" I walk away. There's no arguing with ignorant.

 

[tzill]

Just to play devils advocate...

We talk a lot about trends here and look at a guy's "last year" to place value on his future effectiveness. But here, you make a caveat about Cain's "last year" as an outlier instead of a trend.

I agree it is more of a bmp in the road than a whole new street, but the difference in take should be noted.

no, no, fair comment. There's always a balance between a players most recent season and his entire body of work. You also have to factor in eye tests, injuries, clubhouse fit, and many other things.

In this case (and I'm a big Cain fan, so I may not be unbiased), if you look at Cain's body of work last year was a tremendous aberration. His ERA+ from 06-12: 108/123/117/147/124/121/126. His 2013: 83. He was just too consistent for too long to think 2013 is what he is now. That was my reasoning.

 

[Kendal]

If Hart were available on a one year deal, he'd be a Giant.

Corey Hart to sign one-year, $5M deal with Mariners - CBSSports.com

Lol, he signed with the Mariners for one year $5 million deal that could go to $13 million if he reaches certain incentives. I would have been all over that if I was the Giants, just sayin...