Clyde Edwards-Helaire

[tlance]

Your right. Michel was a much better RB in college AND he had a better combine.

Three reasons CEH is being overhyped:

1. LSU and Burrow won the CFP and CEH was getting a ton of love. If they don't win it he is a 2-3 round pick. Simple as that.
2. Damien Williams opts out.
3. He just got drafted to KC and dynamic offense.

I can see how all these things can be very tempting to make his ceiling extraordinary high but it just isn't as high as you believe. Your ceiling says he will replicate his college numbers minus the TD's. I would say his ceiling is right around Michel but he has much more of an opportunity in the passing game.
So 1,400 scrimmage yards and 8 total TD's------that's my ceiling for him.
According to 2019, that would be RB11 or RB12 as a ceiling(that's right about where I have him ranked too)
I guess your ceiling since it's "unbelievably high" is 1,800 scrimmage yards and 14-15 TD's LOL. I don't think that is realistic.

In comparison, he would have a better rookie season than Marshall Faulk.
Barkley had 2K
Zeke had 2K

Those guys were workhorses in college and freak athletes. CEH barely cleared 200 in 15 games, that's only one season. More risk than reward picking top 5, let alone top 8-9.

We shall see.

Michel didn’t have the opportunity that CEH has.

And I could care less about the combine. Plenty of combine studs who bust.

 

[Clayton]

He is being overhyped but I wouldn't make any comparisons to RB production from the Alex Smith years. Teams stacked the box against Hunt. Teams will not stack the box against CEH.

Not sure there is a large enough sample size of Hunt and Mahomes work with but you also have to figure in that Hardman will likely get more touches. Not enough touches to go around in KC especially if Watkins stays healthy.

 

[ANGELAKERAMS]

If you are drafting him in standard leagues, it’s more questionable.

if you are drafting him in PPR leagues, then it’s not hard to justify. There aren’t too many RB’s that get you 300+ pts in a season in PPR.

If CEH is anywhere near 250, that’s worthy of a 1st round pick for a RB. Both Fournette and Chubb were in the 250 range last season and were the 7th and 8th RB’s for PPR leagues last season. 9-11 were in the 240’s and Carson was at 12 with 232 pts in PPR.

 

[tlance]

If you are drafting him in standard leagues, it’s more questionable.

if you are drafting him in PPR leagues, then it’s not hard to justify. There aren’t too many RB’s that get you 300+ pts in a season in PPR.

If CEH is anywhere near 250, that’s worthy of a 1st round pick for a RB. Both Fournette and Chubb were in the 250 range last season and were the 7th and 8th RB’s for PPR leagues last season. 9-11 were in the 240’s and Carson was at 12 with 232 pts in PPR.

I agree.

I probably should have said this.

CEH has a lot more PPR value for sure.

 

[SmokingMonkey]

Injury concern at all?

Small guy with small frame.

Much more suited to today's game than 10yrs ago, but RBs still get hit

 

[Stomp]

Injury concern at all?

Small guy with small frame.

Much more suited to today's game than 10yrs ago, but RBs still get hit

Not yet, but he only bellcowed for 1 year as far as size goes he's over 200 lbs short and stocky is what you want in a RB

 

[averagejoe]

In the Mahomes era, the RB have scored 28% of the total TD.
(The other 72% have gone to the TE and WR.)
28% may seem like a lot given the juggernaut offense, but that only equates to 15.5 TD for the entire RB corp to share. And the lead RB was not necessarily the beneficiary.

CEH will need to make his mark in yards.
And at 5-7, he is not going up against the watered-down talent of the college defensive players.

 

[SteelersPride]

He just went pick 10 in my money league

 

[TREFF]

We just had my money league draft..the one with the extreme big play bonuses..
I actually took CEH, 34th overall.
Backs that went ahead of him (except the one from the bonehead team who always fucks the draft-took Ingram top 20 overall..smdh)
-the usual suspects of the top 4
-D. Henry
-A Jones
-D. Cook
-Chubb
-Drake
-Mixon (me)
-then CEH

 

[SmokingMonkey]

We just had my money league draft..the one with the extreme big play bonuses..
I actually took CEH, 34th overall.
Backs that went ahead of him (except the one from the bonehead team who always fucks the draft-took Ingram top 20 overall..smdh)
-the usual suspects of the top 4
-D. Henry
-A Jones
-D. Cook
-Chubb
-Drake
-Mixon (me)
-then CEH

that seems sensible

 

[Clayton]

In the Mahomes era, the RB have scored 28% of the total TD.
(The other 72% have gone to the TE and WR.)
28% may seem like a lot given the juggernaut offense, but that only equates to 15.5 TD for the entire RB corp to share. And the lead RB was not necessarily the beneficiary.

CEH will need to make his mark in yards.
And at 5-7, he is not going up against the watered-down talent of the college defensive players.

I think if he makes his mark its going to be TDs and not yards but in terms of a super high fantasy pick he isn't terribly likely to get either.

The thing is that the Chiefs don't need him to pile up the yards. It kinda defies common sense. The Chiefs have a potent pass offense. Their interior of the oline is the weak part of the offense going into next year. Chiefs are returning their head coach, offensive coordinator, QB, WR corp and Kelce and they've all won playoff games and a Super Bowl. A rookie isn't going to come in and steal all of their touches. CEH's value is going to be measured in many games by his ability to get tough yards here and there instead of having to rely on Mahomes putting himself at risk. It doesn't make sense to put long stretches of games on a rookie's shoulders.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

In the Mahomes era, the RB have scored 28% of the total TD.
(The other 72% have gone to the TE and WR.)
28% may seem like a lot given the juggernaut offense, but that only equates to 15.5 TD for the entire RB corp to share. And the lead RB was not necessarily the beneficiary.

CEH will need to make his mark in yards.
And at 5-7, he is not going up against the watered-down talent of the college defensive players.

it is clear you are not a fan... and you make compelling arguments... but i do think some of us get confused between value, hunches and hype...


you can't argue a players value or hype, you can only buy into it or not...i promise for every logical reason you can give against a player, someone can give FOR a player...

Being correct is all hindsight... you gotta deal with players by their current values... and hype drives a players value... whether fair or not...

 

[richig07]

@averagejoe

The statement of "how many players have succeeded at that height" is a logical fallacy. This is due to the fact that there aren't very many RB's to ever play at that height. Of course, there won't be many as a result. There are, however, many like Barry Sanders, Ray Rice, MJD, Michael Turner, etc. have succeeded within that range of height.

Also, height really isn't a factor for RB's. In fact, being short has its advantages as a RB. He's plenty big at 207. That should be more what you look at here.

To me, with RB's it is ALL (and I mean ALLL) about volume and opportunity. An open path to lead duties in KC? It doesn't get ANY better.

 

[Clayton]

CEH is 1/4" shorter than Devin Singletary and an inch shorter than D'Andre Swift and Devonta Freeman. CEH had a better vert and broad than many RBs and a comparable 10 yd split to Swift and Freeman. I don't think its too crazy to think that he is an athletic player.

 

[richig07]

CEH is 1/4" shorter than Devin Singletary and an inch shorter than D'Andre Swift and Devonta Freeman. CEH had a better vert and broad than many RBs and a comparable 10 yd split to Swift and Freeman. I don't think its too crazy to think that he is an athletic player.

Yeah, especially since this is a RB. Not a WR. Who cares? If he was 175-185 pounds - that would be a much bigger concern towards him being a productive RB1. 5'7 vs 5'8 for a runner? If anything, it gives you a lower center of gravity and helps you maneuver through holes.

Also, I just think people have this misconception about RB's. They're almost all a product of volume and opportunity. They're not "facilitators" they "get facilitated".

Fournette was not a "good" RB last season. But he got so much damn run (strangely in the passing game too) that it didn't matter and he posted good week-to-week numbers.

If you have to choose between a RB with "okay talent" and great opportunity for volume... versus... a RB with "great talent" and looking at a split/timeshare. You take the "okay RB" whose going to get fed.

Also, for all we know, CEH will be fantastic. So, we're not even sure if we're conceding talent yet.

Then, you add in the scoring opportunity within KC's offense? It's a no brainer late 1st round RB, to me.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

We just had my money league draft..the one with the extreme big play bonuses..
I actually took CEH, 34th overall.
Backs that went ahead of him (except the one from the bonehead team who always fucks the draft-took Ingram top 20 overall..smdh)
-the usual suspects of the top 4
-D. Henry
-A Jones
-D. Cook
-Chubb
-Drake
-Mixon (me)
-then CEH

there has to be other RBs taken before CEH, if he was taken 34th overall... unless it was a 2 QB league...

I don't think it makes your league look good that he was 34th overall at this point in time, especially in a big play league...

is everything else standard?? I do agree with others that in standard leagues his value is much less than in any type of PPR...

 

[SmokingMonkey]

there has to be other RBs taken before CEH, if he was taken 34th overall... unless it was a 2 QB league...

I don't think it makes your league look good that he was 34th overall at this point in time, especially in a big play league...

is everything else standard?? I do agree with others that in standard leagues his value is much less than in any type of PPR...

there is nothing standard about that league he's in.
QBs score like 50-70pts regularly, if memory serves.

So 34th overall for a RB that is more than likely in a time share on a high powered offense seems about right when you consider the list of RBs taken ahead of him.

I think that's more important to looking at "34th overall", that was Treff's way of taking a shot at CEH since he doesn't believe in the talent.

the real thing you need to take note of is that CEH went as RB11 in his draft. I can get on board taking a shot on a guy with more risk when he's the RB2 for your team, and he's not taken in within the 1st 6 picks at the position.

 

[TREFF]

there is nothing standard about that league he's in.
QBs score like 50-70pts regularly, if memory serves.

So 34th overall for a RB that is more than likely in a time share on a high powered offense seems about right when you consider the list of RBs taken ahead of him.

I think that's more important to looking at "34th overall", that was Treff's way of taking a shot at CEH since he doesn't believe in the talent.

the real thing you need to take note of is that CEH went as RB11 in his draft. I can get on board taking a shot on a guy with more risk when he's the RB2 for your team, and he's not taken in within the 1st 6 picks at the position.

Yes, there were 5-6 QB's taken, because of the scoring system. But, the 12th..to be fair, the 11th as Ingram had no business being taken where that owner took him, but, whatever. 11th RB in a standard, in a PPR, normal league...isnt going until mid to late second round, maybe even the third.

 

[TREFF]

there has to be other RBs taken before CEH, if he was taken 34th overall... unless it was a 2 QB league...

I don't think it makes your league look good that he was 34th overall at this point in time, especially in a big play league...

is everything else standard?? I do agree with others that in standard leagues his value is much less than in any type of PPR...

Big play as in a TD of 61yds or longer gets 35, a goaline TD gets 5...so yes, QB's and WR's that make big plays, Mahommes, Jackson, Thomas, Evans, 'Reek, those types are are premiums. RB's, after CMAC, Barkley, Kamara, Zeke and Henry, often fall. This is actually the one league I'm in that your crazy assed ideas sometimes fit

Pay more attention to him being the 11th (12th) RB taken, and less about 34th overall. Insert that number into a "normal" league, where does the 10th, 11th, 12th, RB usually go? Mid to late second.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

there is nothing standard about that league he's in.
QBs score like 50-70pts regularly, if memory serves.

So 34th overall for a RB that is more than likely in a time share on a high powered offense seems about right when you consider the list of RBs taken ahead of him.

I think that's more important to looking at "34th overall", that was Treff's way of taking a shot at CEH since he doesn't believe in the talent.

the real thing you need to take note of is that CEH went as RB11 in his draft. I can get on board taking a shot on a guy with more risk when he's the RB2 for your team, and he's not taken in within the 1st 6 picks at the position.

yea, I was just gauging why he would be 34... but 11th running back makes sense...