• Have something to say? Register Now! and be posting in minutes!

Clyde Edwards-Helaire

averagejoe

You fell victim to one of the classic blunders.
13,355
7,313
533
Joined
Apr 19, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,500.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Or do you prefer CEH?
As the graphs below show, this kid has been climbing up the draft boards.
Owners involved in other leagues here on the SportsHoopla boards have seen CEH go as high as #2 overall!

CEH graph.png

Yes, the kid was a first round pick (32).
Yes, he landed in a great spot with KC.

I participate in a league on the Sleeper site and let me tell you, the majority of those owners are clamoring for some CEH love. Any message/question involving him is overwhelmingly in favor of pulling the trigger early on this kid.

I think there are some red flags with this philosophy/outlook. You may vehemently disagree, but I plan on presenting a few here:

COMBINE RESULTS
CEH was the 17th-slowest RB at the combine (4.60) in the 40-yard dash.
Including the results from all other positions, CEH did not crack the top 100 in speed. (101 to be exact.)
His vertical was above average. (39.5)
Of the 23 RB that participated in the bench press, he tied for 3rd-worst (15 reps).

Result: he tested slower and weaker than his draft counterparts.


SIZE
He is 5-7 and 207 lbs.
Of the 30 RB at the combine, he was the smallest.
Only 7 of the 30 RB were lighter than he was.

As a relatively short person myself, I tend to pull for the little guy. Seriously, I do.
However, in the NFL, not many RB of that size (5-7) have much success.
In fact, though there have been several of that size or smaller to play in the NFL, the list of successful 5-7 RB basically begins and ends with Maurice Jones Drew or MJD.
Before you jump on the MJD and CEH comparisons, I should point out that while MJD's numbers were respectable, it did take him 3 years before he was considered to be the prototypical "round 1" fantasy potential.

If fantasy owners are going to draft a guy like CEH expecting him to be Ezekiel Elliott or Saquon Barkley, it won't happen. Historical odds say so.


ANDY REID & KC
There is no disputing the success of Andy Reid.
Quarterback whisperer.
Offensive genius.
Successful and balanced game manager.

Not to mention the list of quality RB that he has mentored and coached over time.
Seems like any RB in his system will have success.
Names such as Jamaal Charles, Kareem Hunt and even plug-ins Charcandrick West and Spencer Ware only add to this mystique.

Some see CEH as Reid's new bellcow in a high-powered offense.
Which is certainly fueling the confidence in his first-round selection in fantasy drafts.

I don't want to go too far back in the Andy Reid coaching history, so for argument's sake, let's just focus on the 7-year tenure of Reid in Kansas City.
There are basically 2 regimes to consider: Alex Smith and Patrick Mahomes.

During the Reid/Smith era, the lead RB has had a 53% share in the team's* rushing attempts.
* When I say "team" keep in mind that this encompasses ALL rushing attempts including the QB.
In the Reid/Mahomes era, the lead RB has had a 38% share in the team's rushing attempts.
Granted, the lead RB has been a crapshoot and work-in-progress for the most part in the Mahomes short era.
Yet, that said, since Mahomes has taken over for Alex Smith in the Reid system, the total rushing attempts has dropped by an average of 42 attempts per season!
Plus after KC gave Mahomes half a billion dollars, is it money well spent to see him hand the ball over to the diminutive RB rookie?

Keep in mind too that on high-powered offenses, it can be the Achille's heel for fantasy owners as they see the ball spread around to a plethora of weapons on those offenses.
Kelce, Hill, (last year's darling) Hardman, Watkins, CEH.

CEH and bellcow proponents may point to Reid's history of relying on a top RB.
Coaches can be stubborn and avoid change.
Surely this approach would favor CEH.
Yet Reid won a championship by NOT using this philosophy.
Does this influence his approach to the RB going forward?

I could be wrong.
I don't have a DeLorean or phone booth to time travel.
But CEH's size, the change in direction in the regime, not to mention that all of this is taking place without a typical preseason or practices raise some severe red flags for me.

Am I alone?
 
Last edited:

Shanemansj13

Finger Poppin Dat Pussy
111,000
32,411
1,033
Joined
Oct 18, 2012
Location
Dallas
Hoopla Cash
$ 506.35
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I am shocked...shocked, he is going this early. I think he could have a nice rookie year but people are expecting him to have the best rookie year ever taking him top 6 or #2? Really? I won't take him in the 1st round...that's for sure but he usually doesn't last past 6 or 7
 
Last edited:

CaptainStubing

Well-Known Member
10,600
3,033
293
Joined
Nov 28, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
According to reports here in KC, his quickness (not top speed) and pass catching abilities have been impressive.

In that offense, I'd draft him around 10
 

Hang_On_Sloopy08

Well-Known Member
8,448
4,109
293
Joined
Oct 6, 2016
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I bought into the hype but got him relatively low in my auction draft (**cough**) salary cap selection (sorry PC warriors).
 

SmokingMonkey

MLS....come to STL!!!
12,543
7,285
533
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Location
STL
Hoopla Cash
$ 7,521.41
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
i'm there with you Joe

zero shares on my teams this year unless he somehow makes it to the backend of the 2nd or early 3rd, and we all know that ain't happening
 

averagejoe

You fell victim to one of the classic blunders.
13,355
7,313
533
Joined
Apr 19, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,500.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Just for argument sake, I looked up Barkley and Zeke's percentages.
Since CEH's ceiling is being tossed around and drafted as having that potential.
Using the same format as I did for the KC RB in Reid's offense (above).

Combined, Saquon and EE average 64% of the team's rushing attempts.
As a reminder, in the Reid/Mahomes offense, this was 38% for the lead RB.
In the entire Reid/KC 7-year regime, this was an average of 49% for the lead RB.
 

Wolverine830872

2018 DCFFL Champion!
52,416
17,219
1,033
Joined
Jul 2, 2013
Location
Your head
Hoopla Cash
$ 500.87
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
there is a lot of risk drafting him high in the first round because your 2nd pick is far off. If he were there late in the first round though, I'd pull the trigger with the though of getting another rb in the 2nd round
 

Shanemansj13

Finger Poppin Dat Pussy
111,000
32,411
1,033
Joined
Oct 18, 2012
Location
Dallas
Hoopla Cash
$ 506.35
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Can you imagine if the Chiefs picked up Fournette? I don't see that as a top option or anything but the people drafting CEH so high would be crushed.
 

TheRangerDude

(Dude/Dudeim)
16,604
8,512
533
Joined
Jul 3, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Certainly not drafting him in the first round but would give him a look in the 2nd or 3rd. Never been a fan of taking an unproven commodity in the 1st.
 

HaroldSeattle

Administrator
Staff member
Admin
56,391
22,039
1,033
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Location
Twin Peaks
Hoopla Cash
$ 45.14
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Can you imagine if the Chiefs picked up Fournette? I don't see that as a top option or anything but the people drafting CEH so high would be crushed.

I break out with a grin just thinking about it.:pound:
 

Shanemansj13

Finger Poppin Dat Pussy
111,000
32,411
1,033
Joined
Oct 18, 2012
Location
Dallas
Hoopla Cash
$ 506.35
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I break out with a grin just thinking about it.:pound:

27106ca69fbf8813f8f90535bb593cda.gif
 

tlance

Kyrie Hater
40,619
21,029
1,033
Joined
Apr 17, 2013
Location
Virginia
Hoopla Cash
$ 11,700.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Just for argument sake, I looked up Barkley and Zeke's percentages.
Since CEH's ceiling is being tossed around and drafted as having that potential.
Using the same format as I did for the KC RB in Reid's offense (above).

Combined, Saquon and EE average 64% of the team's rushing attempts.
As a reminder, in the Reid/Mahomes offense, this was 38% for the lead RB.
In the entire Reid/KC 7-year regime, this was an average of 49% for the lead RB.

I don’t think that is a fair comparison.

CEH is an excellent receiver out of the backfield and we know the Chiefs love to sling it.

I am willing to bet at least half of his production comes from receiving stats catching the ball in space.

In that offense, I think he could be a top 10 RB on 13-15 touches a game.

And I would be willing to bet he averages more than that. If only by a little.
 

SmokingMonkey

MLS....come to STL!!!
12,543
7,285
533
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Location
STL
Hoopla Cash
$ 7,521.41
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I don’t think that is a fair comparison.

CEH is an excellent receiver out of the backfield and we know the Chiefs love to sling it.

I am willing to bet at least half of his production comes from receiving stats catching the ball in space.

In that offense, I think he could be a top 10 RB on 13-15 touches a game.

And I would be willing to bet he averages more than that. If only by a little.

I think the bigger point Joe is making, is that when you are talking about a Top 6 (or even 1st round) pick in a draft, the guy "that could be" carries so much more risk that they guy that's done it before.

Especially when the guy that's done it before is slated for a similar workload.

Might be mis-interpreting his view here, but the usage stats were more to emphasize the previous thought, not be the thought on its own.
 

TREFF

Fantasy Football Guru--??
33,003
12,384
1,033
Joined
Apr 17, 2013
Location
Colorado-behind enemy lines
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Huge leap of faith to assume any rookie is going to automatically take total control of the Chiefs RB position. Which, averages, amongst ALL its RB's the past three seasons, of around 1300 yds rushing and 500- 600 passing with wide ranging TD numbers both ways. And thats ALL RB's combined, not just "the lead guy" (except '17 where Hunt was nearly %100 of the load). So if CEH takes 50-60% of that, hell, give him %75-%80...its not worth that draft status, not without insane TD numbers. Which just aren't predictable, especially for a guy who is "undersized".

And we haven't even touched on just how comfortable they'll be leaving him in there the first time he misses an assignment, like all rookie RB's do, and Mahommes gets lit up.
 

Shanemansj13

Finger Poppin Dat Pussy
111,000
32,411
1,033
Joined
Oct 18, 2012
Location
Dallas
Hoopla Cash
$ 506.35
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Huge leap of faith to assume any rookie is going to automatically take total control of the Chiefs RB position. Which, averages, amongst ALL its RB's the past three seasons, of around 1300 yds rushing and 500- 600 passing with wide ranging TD numbers both ways. And thats ALL RB's combined, not just "the lead guy" (except '17 where Hunt was nearly %100 of the load). So if CEH takes 50-60% of that, hell, give him %75-%80...its not worth that draft status, not without insane TD numbers. Which just aren't predictable, especially for a guy who is "undersized".

And we haven't even touched on just how comfortable they'll be leaving him in there the first time he misses an assignment, like all rookie RB's do, and Mahommes gets lit up.

Another great point...his below average blocking alone count lower his snap count.
The facts are....he is a below average blocker, not great speed, undersized. Those aren't great traits for a 3 down back...which if you are planning to take him in the top 6, let alone in the 1st. He better be a 3 down back.

Really like his quickness and ability to miss tackles, his pass catching ability and his fit in this KC offense but if LSU doesn't win the title..this hype might not be so extreme.

I saw these projections from a site, that had him listed as the RB14 and I really like these projections:

120 rushing attempts, 522 rushing yards, 4.4 rushing touchdowns
42.3 catches, 506 receiving yards, 3.5 receiving touchdowns
156.8 Fantasy points (non-PPR); 199.1 (PPR)
 

broncosmitty

Banned in Europe
90,149
24,086
1,033
Joined
Apr 19, 2013
Location
Almost Paradise
Hoopla Cash
$ 16,206.54
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
He's went 5th and 6th in the two redrafts I've been in so far.


Which I think is crazy.
 

averagejoe

You fell victim to one of the classic blunders.
13,355
7,313
533
Joined
Apr 19, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,500.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I don’t think that is a fair comparison.

CEH is an excellent receiver out of the backfield and we know the Chiefs love to sling it.

I am willing to bet at least half of his production comes from receiving stats catching the ball in space.

In that offense, I think he could be a top 10 RB on 13-15 touches a game.

And I would be willing to bet he averages more than that. If only by a little.
I have no issues with seeing his value as a receiving back. Look at Kamara.
But unlike Kamara, I see CEH more of a Tarik Cohen type. And maybe that is low-balling CEH. But if he ends up somewhere in between Kamara & Cohen (closer to Kamara), it does not correspond to round 1 value to me.
 

wildturkey

Well-Known Member
26,136
8,404
533
Joined
Sep 4, 2011
Hoopla Cash
$ 98,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Eh...I'm comfortable enough to take him in that 8th overall or below range depending on what elite WRs are still there. I like him better than some of the other backs in that range (Sanders or Chubb, who I personally think is gonna lose more of his share to Hunt so I don't like Chubb that high)
 

tlance

Kyrie Hater
40,619
21,029
1,033
Joined
Apr 17, 2013
Location
Virginia
Hoopla Cash
$ 11,700.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I think the bigger point Joe is making, is that when you are talking about a Top 6 (or even 1st round) pick in a draft, the guy "that could be" carries so much more risk that they guy that's done it before.

Especially when the guy that's done it before is slated for a similar workload.

Might be mis-interpreting his view here, but the usage stats were more to emphasize the previous thought, not be the thought on its own.

Oh, I get it.

It is an extremely risky pick. The floor for CEH is basement level.

But the ceiling is higher than any player not named McCaffery or Barley.

That is why he is being drafted where he is.

Probably a little too high, but I don’t think it is crazy either.

But also I don’t fear rookies. I once took Zeke Elliot at #1 overall.
 
Top