Cleveland

[Shaqdaddy11]

Everybody knows the cavs are one lebron-injury away from getting swept in any playoff series. Kyrie and Love never played a playoff game before lebron; they had a chance to lead their teams and failed

 

[WiggyRuss]

Mike Conley moves the ball. Kyrie holds it. I don't think you understand.

i just dont know if you watch the Cavs though....Kyrie definitely handles the ball but so does LeBron---- since Lue has taken over even Kevin Love seems to run th offens from time to time through the post....Kyrie already plays off the ball a decent amount- e specially in lineups when he is PLAYING with Delly and Mo.....i just dont think you understand the situation or what is going on. What is your argument that Kyrie should play even MORe off the ball?

 

[tlance]

i just dont know if you watch the Cavs though....Kyrie definitely handles the ball but so does LeBron---- since Lue has taken over even Kevin Love seems to run th offens from time to time through the post....Kyrie already plays off the ball a decent amount- e specially in lineups when he is PLAYING with Delly and Mo.....i just dont think you understand the situation or what is going on. What is your argument that Kyrie should play even MORe off the ball?

That is not my argument. My argument is that he does not fit with LeBron, and he never will.

 

[WiggyRuss]

That is not my argument. My argument is that he does not fit with LeBron, and he never will.

im glad lebron thought waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay differently.

 

[tlance]

im glad lebron thought waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay differently.

Sure. You obviously need LeBron. The problem is he does not understand what he needs around him to win.

I have always supported LeBron in the face of haters, but it is becoming more and more clear. He simply wants his load to be lighter. He does not Put himself in the best situations. He should be paired with a bunch of 3 and D players who excel off the ball and the offense should run through him. Taking turns with Irving and Wade is far from ideal.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Sure. You obviously need LeBron. The problem is he does not understand what he needs around him to win.

I have always supported LeBron in the face of haters, but it is becoming more and more clear. He simply wants his load to be lighter. He does not Put himself in the best situations. He should be paired with a bunch of 3 and D players who excel off the ball and the offense should run through him. Taking turns with Irving and Wade is far from ideal.

so who are these guys if a 23 year old multi time all star that can handle the ball or play off the ball and is one of the best shooters out there is not that guy?

Kyrie is ideal in my mind because of that versatality- when LeBron is not in- he can take over- or he can be on the ball- or he can play off the ball....Kevin Love can play on the 3 pt line, or he can be the focal point at the elbow....the versatility of those guys is something ont many have- its why they are as good as they are.

Kyrie CANNOT be single teamed- at least not if you dont want to be taken down- he can stretch the floor- and let lebron take the ball at times. i dont know how that is not practially ideal.....sure you wish a guy like kyrie played better D- but guys like that RARELY play great D.

not only that but the contract Kyrie is on is simply one of the very best in the NBA....he is beyond a valuable commodity right now.

 

[tlance]

and that just shows how great LeBron is. Going to 5 straight finals without being paired with optimal talent to fit with his strengths.

 

[bksballer89]

Sure. You obviously need LeBron. The problem is he does not understand what he needs around him to win.

I have always supported LeBron in the face of haters, but it is becoming more and more clear. He simply wants his load to be lighter. He does not Put himself in the best situations. He should be paired with a bunch of 3 and D players who excel off the ball and the offense should run through him. Taking turns with Irving and Wade is far from ideal.

Debating with Wiggy will go nowhere

 

[tlance]

so who are these guys if a 23 year old multi time all star that can handle the ball or play off the ball and is one of the best shooters out there is not that guy?

Irving holds the ball and does not play D. Not that this would ever happen, but a roster line this would be perfect for Bron:

Conley
Klay Thompson
Bron
Ryan Anderson
Defensive minded center X

And shooters + energy guys on the bench

Less name brand firepower than what he has now, but a team that would be much better than the current Cavs.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Irving holds the ball and does not play D. Not that this would ever happen, but a roster line this would be perfect for Bron:

Conley
Klay Thompson
Bron
Ryan Anderson
Defensive minded center X

And shooters + energy guys on the bench

Less name brand firepower than what he has now, but a team that would be much better than the current Cavs.

this is complete insanity

A Conley NEEDS the ball in his hands all the time- he is a PURE point guard- lebron would hate playing with that- there is a reason why LeBron has NEVER played with a guy like that before- its PERFECt for LeBron that having a guy like Kyrie - who right now has the best mid range game in the NBA and is typically a knock down 3 pt shooter- can play off the ball and spread the floor or take over PG duties when it so suits.

B. Klay Thompson? YAH id LOVE to get Klay Thompson- but GOOD LUCK with that, lol.

C. Ryan Anderson? They already have KEvin Love who is a BILLIANIRE RICH MANS Ryan Anderson

D- Defensive Minded Center X? Like he had in Miami? HA- the LAST thing they need is some center making huge money that clogs up the lane and cant guard the small ball lineups that hte Spurs and Warriors will throw at them. I mean- isnt this Mozgov already? or Thompson?

Shooters and energy off the bench? you mean like Delly? or Frye? or Shumpert? or Mo? right there you have BIG TIME 3 pt shooting and a very good perimeter defender to bring off the bench. I mean - its like you just went out of your way to describe what the bench ALREADY is.

 

[tlance]

The problem is not he role players. A pure PG fits a lot better with LeBron tHan a scoring point who dominates the ball, but I am done repeating myself. I did not say my roster was realistic, I was merely giving examples of pieces that would fit better.

Love is a lot better than Anderson, but I wanted a great catch and shoot 2 and a pure PG. could not ask for 4 stars.

 

[WiggyRuss]

The problem is not he role players. A pure PG fits a lot better with LeBron tHan a scoring point who dominates the ball, but I am done repeating myself. I did not say my roster was realistic, I was merely giving examples of pieces that would fit better.

Love is a lot better than Anderson, but I wanted a great catch and shoot 2 and a pure PG. could not ask for 4 stars.

why would you think a pure point guard fits in well with LeBron? I think the EXACT opposite. I think the ideal point guard to play with LeBron can both play on the ball at times- but a lot of the times play off the ball. LeBron would NEVER want to play with a point guard that was a limited shooter and initiated the offense all the time. If you have a pure point guard playing with LeBron you are WASTING one of the best distributors and most ingenious basketball minds to EVER play the game. Love Mike Conley as a player- Lebron? INFINITELY better

Kyrie can do both obviously. Play on or off the ball

Obviously with the ball in his hands he is deadly. Im not sure if it is even a debate anymore. Kyrie IRving has the best handle in the National Basketball ASsociation. While he has the ball he is AMAZING at driving and finishing at the rim- but on the advice on Kobe he has really developed his mid range game over the last 2 seasons- and he is now the MOST EFFICIENT mid range scorer in the entire NBA. Those pull up 12 footers when guys over play his drive? MONEY IN THE FUCKING BANK

If LeBron wants to be on the ball and run the 1-4? All Kyrie becomes - as the gentleman above said- is one of the best catch and shoot players out there capable of spreading the floor and ALWAYS demanding attention.


The Cavs best play and go to play that has been INSANELY efficient is "Thirteen"- the 1- 3 pick and roll with Kyrie and LeBron --- good luck picking your poison on how to cove rthat.

 

[tlance]

I am not going to waste my time arguing with you about the Cavs because you have zero ability to be objective.

The funny thing is that even though nobody agreed with, I thought you had a few intelligent points in the Whiteside argument, but now I am just seeing blind loyalty for your team. I respect the loyalty, but be objective. You have said nothing to counter my main points that Kyrie is a ball stopper and does not defend. Yes, he helps the offense, but he hurts the D. Other less skilled offensive players would be better overall for the team.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I am not going to waste my time arguing with you about the Cavs because you have zero ability to be objective.

The funny thing is that even though nobody agreed with, I thought you had a few intelligent points in the Whiteside argument, but now I am just seeing blind loyalty for your team. I respect the loyalty, but be objective. You have said nothing to counter my main points that Kyrie is a ball stopper and does not defend. Yes, he helps the offense, but he hurts the D. Other less skilled offensive players would be better overall for the team.

just ignoring everything else- i just dont understand the argument that LeBron is best off playing with a pure point guard. He never has- because that means that Pg has the ball in his hands the whole time---- and while I have lobbied -along with plenty of other Cavs fans for LeBron to spend more time in the post, there is just no arguing with the fact that you want LeBron James with the ball in his hands making decisions for your team because he is possibly the best at it since Magic Johnson.

When you have a talent like LeBron who is going to intiate the offense- I think the best thing you can have is a point guard who can also move over to shooting guard when LeBron wants to intiate. Thats why i think Kyrie Irving is one of the very best guys you could pair with LeBron---- he can play the point and do it very well- or he can play off the ball, catch and shoot or collapse the defense on drives-

I would gladly listen to your argument of why you think a traditional point guard would be the best to play with LeBron...i just dont understand it.

 

[Heatles84]

I am not going to waste my time arguing with you about the Cavs because you have zero ability to be objective.

The funny thing is that even though nobody agreed with, I thought you had a few intelligent points in the Whiteside argument, but now I am just seeing blind loyalty for your team. I respect the loyalty, but be objective. You have said nothing to counter my main points that Kyrie is a ball stopper and does not defend. Yes, he helps the offense, but he hurts the D. Other less skilled offensive players would be better overall for the team.

Seems to be another common theme with Wiggy.

 

[tlance]

Just because LeBron has never played with a pure PG, does not mean that he would not be better off. I can't understand why you make that assumption. I was very specific in my Conley choice because he is not a ball dominator. Many PGs, like Chris Paul, Westbrook, Rondo, etc. hold the ball and create offense off pick and roll or isolation. Conley does not play that way. He looks to early up the ball and initiates a ball movement offense. He does not hold the ball for half of the shot clock, unlike some other PGs.

When you have LeBron, who is among the best shot creators in basketball, you want the offense flowing through him and you want the ball moving. You don't want a ball dominant PG, because when others have the ball, LeBron does not. A ball dominant passer (Paul) might be better than a ball dominant scorer (Irving) but both take the ball out of LeBron's hands and that is not ideal. Conley is not ball dominant, but maybe you have not watched him play enough.

By the way, although he is not a particurly good player, Chalmers was almost the perfect type of PG to play alongside LeBron. He was a pretty good defender, he could make open 3s sometimes and he did not need to have the ball. Historically speaking, a player like John Paxson would be the perfect compliment.

 

[Mecca]

@Mecca
Bookmark this post.
Pierce won't play next season.
He'll be placed on IR though so he can get paid.

He has been awful.

So, I believe you.

 

[Mecca]

mike conley doesnt need the ball in his hands? he is a pure PG - of course he needs th eball in his hands

Kyrie Irving is an awesome floor spreader and much better without the ball than Mike Conley is. I dont think you understand the argument you are making.

Kyrie is a short sg.

He's awesome.

But, not a pg.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Just because LeBron has never played with a pure PG, does not mean that he would not be better off. I can't understand why you make that assumption. I was very specific in my Conley choice because he is not a ball dominator. Many PGs, like Chris Paul, Westbrook, Rondo, etc. hold the ball and create offense off pick and roll or isolation. Conley does not play that way. He looks to early up the ball and initiates a ball movement offense. He does not hold the ball for half of the shot clock, unlike some other PGs.

When you have LeBron, who is among the best shot creators in basketball, you want the offense flowing through him and you want the ball moving. You don't want a ball dominant PG, because when others have the ball, LeBron does not. A ball dominant passer (Paul) might be better than a ball dominant scorer (Irving) but both take the ball out of LeBron's hands and that is not ideal. Conley is not ball dominant, but maybe you have not watched him play enough.

By the way, although he is not a particurly good player, Chalmers was almost the perfect type of PG to play alongside LeBron. He was a pretty good defender, he could make open 3s sometimes and he did not need to have the ball. Historically speaking, a player like John Paxson would be the perfect compliment.

Bc Chalmers was essentially a role player, when you get a PG that is an All-Star possibly more things change. I agree with all your points but Lebron picked Kyrie for a reason he wants him to dominate the ball more. He just needs to be smarter with it and not just look for his shot, he needs to have his head on a swivel at all times like Lebron.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Kyrie is a short sg.

He's awesome.

But, not a pg.

Makes sense, but I have never seen a SG with that great of dribbling skills lol