Celtics looked lost 20 games in

[msgkings322]

so wanted to let it go. If only there was an "oh the irony" specific facepalm I could use.

Did you though? Did you really want to let it go? I'ma have to disagree there.

 

[dtgold88]

Did you though? Did you really want to let it go? I'ma have to disagree there.

yep. yep. ok.

 

[msgkings322]

yep. yep. ok.

No self control eh?

 

[flyerhawk]

I watched the game. Boston was having their way with Philly while Baynes was in there... they went on to lose in the final moments after Baynes missed > half of the game, and the main reason was that Embiid (the guy Baynes was defending) went off.

It's not crazy to suggest that the C's likely would have won if Baynes was healthy.

Baynes had a +/- of 0 in the game. So was Marcus Smart. Terry Rozier was lights out in the 1st half of the game as was Irving. They cooled off considerably in the 2nd half.

 

[Gman]

Baynes had a +/- of 0 in the game. So was Marcus Smart. Terry Rozier was lights out in the 1st half of the game as was Irving. They cooled off considerably in the 2nd half.

When the C's can contain Embiid, they can dictate the game. Play at their pace, and allow their overall athletic advantage on Philly to do the work that it normally does.

With Baynes out, the '6ers and Embiid (finally) made a point of pounding the ball down low. Philly and Embiid got a TON of foul shots that 2nd half, and the game speed crawled to halt.

That difference in pace and flow is what allows for different players to be "lights out" or seemingly stone cold... that stuff isn't necessarily random or capricious when you follow games closely.

 

[flyerhawk]

When the C's can contain Embiid, they can dictate the game. Play at their pace, and allow their overall athletic advantage on Philly to do the work that it normally does.

With Baynes out, the '6ers and Embiid (finally) made a point of pounding the ball down low. Philly and Embiid got a TON of foul shots that 2nd half, and the game speed crawled to halt.

That difference in pace and flow is what allows for different players to be "lights out" or seemingly stone cold... that stuff isn't necessarily random or capricious when you follow games closely.

He had 10 free throws in the 1st half and 11 in the 2nd half.

Fans tend to look for excuses for why their team lost. Thus the backup center getting knocked out becomes the reason why the team lost.

The Celtics very well may have won the game had Baynes not got hurt. But they may have lost it as well anyway. Just like adding Kyrie Irving and Gordon Hayward to last year's team was a guarantee that the Celtics would be better this year.

 

[dtgold88]

No self control eh?

Have always said I never ignore direct questions.

 

[dtgold88]

When the C's can contain Embiid, they can dictate the game. Play at their pace, and allow their overall athletic advantage on Philly to do the work that it normally does.

With Baynes out, the '6ers and Embiid (finally) made a point of pounding the ball down low. Philly and Embiid got a TON of foul shots that 2nd half, and the game speed crawled to halt.

That difference in pace and flow is what allows for different players to be "lights out" or seemingly stone cold... that stuff isn't necessarily random or capricious when you follow games closely.

Yet with Baynes out the entire game the Cs beat Philly 2 times. You really don't allow for the possibility they just lost the game and it wasn't because of losing a backup (who was outplayed by the guy in for him) and a dime a dozen starting center who did not start by choice of his coach?

 

[Gman]

He had 10 free throws in the 1st half and 11 in the 2nd half.

Fans tend to look for excuses for why their team lost. Thus the backup center getting knocked out becomes the reason why the team lost.

The Celtics very well may have won the game had Baynes not got hurt. But they may have lost it as well anyway. Just like adding Kyrie Irving and Gordon Hayward to last year's team was a guarantee that the Celtics would be better this year.

Man... if I didn't watch the game in question, you might be able to walk all over me here with this.

Baynes got injured with around 5 minutes to go in the 2nd quarter. Before this time, the 76ers took 13 foul shots.

After Baynes went down, Philly took 30 foul shots the rest of the way.

30. (!)

What I said was absolutely true: Philly and Embiid but their head down and attacked the Celtics defense after Baynes went down... with great success. Baynes not being back there is an obvious factor that softened up the defense for y'all.

Now I'll play your arm-chair psychologist game on you. Your team can't beat the Celtics. You want that last win to mean something, you really do. So you discount the obvious break you caught when an injury hit the other team... it wasn't about that, it couldn't be.

See, that psycho-babble works both ways... or any way the "psychologist" wants it to work. It's mostly bull. What doesn't lie is the stats I listed.

I'm glad I watched this game.

 

[dtgold88]

Man... if I didn't watch the game in question, you might be able to walk all over me here with this.

Baynes got injured with around 5 minutes to go in the 2nd quarter. Before this time, the 76ers took 13 foul shots.

After Baynes went down, Philly took 30 foul shots the rest of the way.

30. (!)

What I said was absolutely true: Philly and Embiid but their head down and attacked the Celtics defense after Baynes went down... with great success. Baynes not being back there is an obvious factor that softened up the defense for y'all.

Now I'll play your arm-chair psychologist game on you. Your team can't beat the Celtics. You want that last win to mean something, you really do. So you discount the obvious break you caught when an injury hit the other team... it wasn't about that, it couldn't be.

See, that psycho-babble works both ways... or any way the "psychologist" wants it to work. It's mostly bull. What doesn't lie is the stats I listed.

I'm glad I watched this game.

No dog in the fight as to who wins or who I want to win, but some other stats don't lie that you chose to ignore. Smart had nearly as many fouls as points, rebounds and assists COMBINED and his replacement played better than he did.

Not really a stat, but the Cs beat Philly a couple times without Baynes for the entire game.

in one of the games Boston won and Baynes did not play Embiid was held in check, hitting 9-22 shots and only taking 4 FTs.

 

[Gman]

Yet with Baynes out the entire game the Cs beat Philly 2 times.

I've mentioned this point several times in the general thread... the C's have often benefited from the fact that Embiid has a tendency to float away from the post and play finesse instead of bully-ball.

I'm sure this was a factor in those wins.

In the game in question in this thread, Embiid consistently attacked the post and the basket. Aside from Baynes, the Celtics really have nobody that can slow him down when he is so determined.

 

[flyerhawk]

Man... if I didn't watch the game in question, you might be able to walk all over me here with this.

Baynes got injured with around 5 minutes to go in the 2nd quarter. Before this time, the 76ers took 13 foul shots.

After Baynes went down, Philly took 30 foul shots the rest of the way.

30. (!)

What I said was absolutely true: Philly and Embiid but their head down and attacked the Celtics defense after Baynes went down... with great success. Baynes not being back there is an obvious factor that softened up the defense for y'all.

Now I'll play your arm-chair psychologist game on you. Your team can't beat the Celtics. You want that last win to mean something, you really do. So you discount the obvious break you caught when an injury hit the other team... it wasn't about that, it couldn't be.

See, that psycho-babble works both ways... or any way the "psychologist" wants it to work. It's mostly bull. What doesn't lie is the stats I listed.

I'm glad I watched this game.

I watched the game as well. From what I recall it was the Smart ejection that really deflated the Celtics.

I don't really believe in streaks. Too many variables. The current roster has only faced the Celtics one time.

And, regardless, the Celtics and Sixers are unlikely to face each other in the playoffs this year. Neither team looks ready to beat the Raptors or Bucks right now. Of course thigns change in the playoffs and I hope we do face the Celtics.

 

[flyerhawk]

I've mentioned this point several times in the general thread... the C's have often benefited from the fact that Embiid has a tendency to float away from the post and play finesse instead of bully-ball.

I'm sure this was a factor in those wins.

In the game in question in this thread, Embiid consistently attacked the post and the basket. Aside from Baynes, the Celtics really have nobody that can slow him down when he is so determined.

FTR, this line of debate began because you wanted to claim that the East is a 3 team race. And you based it off of some pretty flawed reasoning. So far the season, the Sixers are 2-1 against the other big Eastern teams with their big 4 playing.

 

[Gman]

Smart had nearly as many fouls as points, rebounds and assists COMBINED and his replacement played better than he did.

Smart is well known for having bizarro-world impact on games... his stat's are often ugly, yet he is considered a winning player who ultimately has a beneficial impact on the game.

If you didn't know that... now you do. You can look into the phenomenon, it's pretty well discussed.

Here's an introduction for you:

Marcus Smart is One of the NBA's Most Misunderstood Players | NBA Math

 

[dtgold88]

I've mentioned this point several times in the general thread... the C's have often benefited from the fact that Embiid has a tendency to float away from the post and play finesse instead of bully-ball.

I'm sure this was a factor in those wins.

In the game in question in this thread, Embiid consistently attacked the post and the basket. Aside from Baynes, the Celtics really have nobody that can slow him down when he is so determined.

Are you suggesting in a game or games against his hated rival, knowing what is said about his team against said rival, Embid was not determined? He was only determined in that one period when Baynes didn't play?

come on.

 

[dtgold88]

Smart is well known for having bizarro-world impact on games... his stat's are often ugly, yet he is considered a winning player who ultimately has a beneficial impact on the game.

If you didn't know that... now you do. You can look into the phenomenon, it's pretty well discussed.

Here's an introduction for you:

Marcus Smart is One of the NBA's Most Misunderstood Players | NBA Math

I like the guy and don't doubt he's a solid player. But IN THE GAME WE ARE DISCUSSING he was pretty bad, his plus/minus was a zero while the guy who took most of his minutes was a +10. Yet they would have been better off if he played and not Brown?

Talk about ignoring stats.

 

[Gman]

Are you suggesting in a game or games against his hated rival, knowing what is said about his team against said rival, Embid was not determined? He was only determined in that one period when Baynes didn't play?
come on.

You're an absolute chore to debate against.

Go back and read what I said. Slowly, I guess. Maybe read it a few times and really be sure you don't misunderstand.

I was speaking specifically about Embiid's willingness to stay in the post and play bully-basketball. Not to let the C's off the hook by floating to the perimeter and playing finesse.

I've talked about the phenomenon before, you can ask @flyerhawk , I stand by the critique of Embiid and the claim that the phenomenon has factored in to the Celtics recent advantage over Philly.

 

[Gman]

I like the guy and don't doubt he's a solid player. But IN THE GAME WE ARE DISCUSSING he was pretty bad, his plus/minus was a zero while the guy who took most of his minutes was a +10. Yet they would have been better off if he played and not Brown?

Talk about ignoring stats.

Simply question for you, @dtgold88:

Did you watch the game in question?

 

[Gman]

FTR, this line of debate began because you wanted to claim that the East is a 3 team race. And you based it off of some pretty flawed reasoning. So far the season, the Sixers are 2-1 against the other big Eastern teams with their big 4 playing.

I stand by the claim. I thought it was pretty clear that it was as much prognostication as it was analysis of the past.

We'll see in the Toronto/'6ers series if I'm on to something or not.

 

[dtgold88]

Simply question for you, @dtgold88:

Did you watch the game in question?

Nope

Now one for you....why do you ignore all the stats presented and go to "eye test" when you recently made a comment that another poster was "ignoring the stats"?