Case Keenum to be dealt tonight?

[SJ76]

I can't discount the may have's, but on that same account, who knows, Goff may have gone ahead of Winston or Mariota last year as well.


Say what?? Dammit Vita were u wasted during this post? Goff over Winston or Marriota? If he had any possibility of going #1 last year, i think he would have declared right?

 

[SJ76]

Winston, Jameis QB 6'4" 231 Florida St. Pick 1, Round 1 (1) 2015 Buccaneers 6.7
Goff, JaredQB 6'4" 215 California Pick 1, Round 1 (1) 2016 Rams 6.5
Wentz, Carson QB 6'5" 237 North Dakota St. Pick 2, Round 1 (2) 2016 Eagles 6.5
Mariota, Marcus QB 6'4" 222 Oregon Pick 2, Round 1 (2) 2015 Titans 6.2

Petty, Bryce QB 6'3" 230 Baylor Pick 4, Round 4 (103) 2015 Jets 5.4
Hundley, Brett QB 6'3" 226 UCLA Pick 11, Round 5 (147) 2015 Packers 5.3
Grayson, Garrett QB 6'2" 213 Colorado St. Pick 11, Round 3 (75) 2015 Saints 5.3
Mannion, Sean QB 6'6" 229 Oregon St. Pick 25, Round 3 (89) 2015 Rams 5.2

Frankly, from using the grading and draft selections on these lists, 2016 is actually a stronger QB class than 2015. And if Mannion was properly drafted this year, he may have gone in the 6th. round or later.

Lynch, Paxton QB 6'7" 244 Memphis Pick 26, Round 1 (26) 2016 Broncos 6.1
Cook, Connor QB 6'4" 217 Michigan St. Pick 2, Round 4 (100) 2016 Raiders 5.8
Hackenberg, Christian QB 6'4" 223 Penn St. Pick 20, Round 2 (51) 2016 Jets 5.5
Brissett, Jacoby QB 6'4" 231 N.C. State Pick 29, Round 3 (91) 2016 Patriots 5.5
Prescott, Dak QB 6'2" 226 Mississippi St. Pick 37, Round 4 (135) 2016 Cowboys 5.4
Allen, Brandon QB 6'1" 217 Arkansas Pick 26, Round 6 (201) 2016 Jaguars 5.4
Jones, Cardale QB 6'5" 253 Ohio St. Pick 41, Round 4 (139) 2016 Bills 5.4
Kessler, Cody QB 6'1" 220 USC Pick 31, Round 3 (93) 2016 Browns 5.4
Rudock, Jake QB 6'3" 207 Michigan Pick 16, Round 6 (191) 2016 Lions 5.2
Sudfeld, Nate QB 6'6" 234 Indiana Pick 12, Round 6 (187) 2016 Redskins 5.2



Be neat to see how they make the ratings. Is it compared to the current draft class or an index of some kind..? Marriota led his QB class in 5 catagories at the combine i believe. Played in big games too so i would love to know how a D2 QB and a QB from Cal that never played against real legit defenses gets a rating higher than MM..

 

[shopson67]

I can't discount the may have's, but on that same account, who knows, Goff may have gone ahead of Winston or Mariota last year as well.


Say what?? Dammit Vita were u wasted during this post? Goff over Winston or Marriota? If he had any possibility of going #1 last year, i think he would have declared right?


View attachment 116719

He wasn't eligible to declare last year as a true sophomore.

 

[SJ76]

He wasn't eligible to declare last year as a true sophomore.

This is true. But would Goff's "rating" have been a 6.5 coming out after his soph year? We are getting into hypotheticals and I don't like hypotheticals... I'm an eye test guy with a splash of research.

 

[SJ76]

Eye test = watching every Saturday = 90% and combine = 10% of my decision on players.

I don't drank the kool-aid

 

[zeke2829]

We get into hypotheticals every draft year, and our top picks usually end up in jail or hanging dry wall at the local Home Depot!

 

[SJ76]

We get into hypotheticals every draft year, and our top picks usually end up in jail or hanging dry wall at the local Home Depot!

My top pick last year likes Red Lobster. But he's actually a for real franchise NFL QB as well.

 

[shopson67]

This is true. But would Goff's "rating" have been a 6.5 coming out after his soph year? We are getting into hypotheticals and I don't like hypotheticals... I'm an eye test guy with a splash of research.

Who knows what these ratings are based on?

 

[Vitamike]

Who knows what these ratings are based on?

I just used them because Smed cites the NFL as the utmost authority on stats. So they must be accurate, right?


Although I'm not sure what they are based on they actually do have a definition,

Grade Title
9.00-10 Once-in-lifetime player
8.00-8.99 Perennial All-Pro
7.50-7.99 Future All-Pro
7.00-7.49 Pro Bowl-caliber player
6.50-6.99 Chance to become Pro Bowl-caliber player
6.00-6.49 Should become instant starter
5.50-5.99 Chance to become NFL starter
5.20-5.49 NFL backup or special teams potential
5.01-5.19 Better-than-average chance to make NFL roster
5.00 50-50 Chance to make NFL roster
4.75-4.99 Should be in an NFL training camp
4.50-4.74 Chance to be in an NFL training camp
No Grade Likely needs time in developmental league.

So according to this legend, Goff was graded as to having the potential to become a Pro Bowler and Mannion was graded as a NFL backup or special teams potential. (And he barely made the cut from grading out as a Better than average chance to make an NFL roster )

Wow, that's a huge difference. Potential Pro Bowler or Potential backup.

I'd say that is a significant difference!​

 

[Retroram52]

Let me see... Neither Mannion nor Goff have played a down of NFL football that counts and people are trying to categorize them as franchise and bench players with all sorts of grading systems based on a challenge by a poster. Didn't we go through this with Foles giving him a two year extension with the same conditions? How did that all work out?

 

[Retroram52]

BTW. Goff better get to the weight room and start eating as well because he is thin as a rail as QBs go these days. He is the same class as Grayson, Cook, Allen, and Rudock in that category. Unless he can scramble, that thin-as-a-rail body isn't going to be durable enough to withstand the rigors of a typical NFL season.

 

[Vitamike]

Let me see... Neither Mannion nor Goff have played a down of NFL football that counts and people are trying to categorize them as franchise and bench players with all sorts of grading systems based on a challenge by a poster. Didn't we go through this with Foles giving him a two year extension with the same conditions? How did that all work out?

It's like SJ was saying, Smed's challenge was purely hypothetical, so I replied in kind and not with 'people' rather with the stat source of Smed choice, the NFL.

That said Retro, when Sean was drafted I thought it was a reach and I haven't really wavered too much reminding any and all who would listen that Hundley was the QB on the board that I felt we should have drafted in the 3rd or even in the 4th (In the 4th with hindsight of course!)

If these ratings are worth anything at all, we can see that Sean was overrated by the Rams brass and may have been there for the taking in the 5th or 6th round.

If Sean had anything at all to offer, I think he would have been able to challenge both Nick and Case for the starting spot, if not for the No. 2 spot at the very least but there he stayed securely put as the Rams No. 3 QB.

That alone says something to me, not you? I mean, I can't be the only one here looking at that draft pick used for Sean then and/or now with hindsight that believes the Rams drafted the dude way too early respective to what he was projected to do and what he has done.

So far, he has panned out to be exactly what the grading had him rated. Somewhere between an NFL back up and better than average chance to make an NFL roster. And you know what else? I'm not sure Sean makes the 53 man roster if we had not reached and drafted him correctly in the 5th or 6th round. Drafting him in the 3rd puts him in the same category as Foles, too much capital invested to cut their losses without exhausting all avenues first.

 

[Retroram52]

Oh I agree Vita. That was my point. Mannion was overrated and chosen too early when a Hundley was sitting there and should have been our third round pick last year. My point was also this is the same FO and I suspect they reached on Goff as well giving up way too much for a guy that could very well end up like the rest of our QB's save Keenum who is 4-1 in the regular season.

 

[Vitamike]

Oh I agree Vita. That was my point. Mannion was overrated and chosen too early when a Hundley was sitting there and should have been our third round pick last year. My point was also this is the same FO and I suspect they reached on Goff as well giving up way too much for a guy that could very well end up like the rest of our QB's save Keenum who is 4-1 in the regular season.

Well, what's done is done I can't help with that.

At the very least, as provided in my prior post it's not just the Rams that are grading Goff somewhere between Winston and Mariota, those grades are from the NFL. So if it's a consolation at any level, there is that and it's not just the Rams org grading him that high. With Sean however we saw, pretty much, that the Rams were the only ones who had Sean rated that high.

 

[Retroram52]

Yep. I agree, Vita. The trade is done and the pick selected. We can only hope we have an offensive A. Donald and if we do, I suppose then Snisher guessed right. If not, then all of us negative nannies will get to gloat a bit.

 

[Smed55]

Well Vita I do like me some stats. But the stats you are throwing out there are all guessing stats, not anything that has actually happened which is the stats I go by? It's like baseball and their Sabermetrics, it's a lot of if this or that happened Yiu can expect this to happen?

As far as Mannion being a reach, I agree, is Goff a reach, I also think that is true, but I agree with Yiu that he is who we have and hopefully he is our Franchise QB.

I know you are a UCLA fan, but I also don't think Hundley is all that either? seems to be a pattern of PAC 12 QB's lately that put up good to big numbers, that tells me that the PAC 12 has lousy defenses! I think Marriota is good, but again he put up big numbers against the same lousy defenses!

As far as Goff possibly going ahead of Winston or MM last year, there's no way!!!! Do I hope he has better career than either, absolutely!!!!

 

[shopson67]

Oh I agree Vita. That was my point. Mannion was overrated and chosen too early when a Hundley was sitting there and should have been our third round pick last year.

2015 NFL Draft Profile: Brett Hundley

Hundley is rated in that same category as Mannion, albeit a little more solidly in the range at 5.35

 

[Vitamike]

2015 NFL Draft Profile: Brett Hundley

Hundley is rated in that same category as Mannion, albeit a little more solidly in the range at 5.35

He probably was under graded by all accounts coming out of Green Bay. And if we were to hold off a bit due to the 5.35 grading we still would have been able to draft him in the 4th.

Bottom line shops, drafting a 5.35 graded QB in the 4th vs drafting a 5.2 graded QB in the 3rd are two totally different things. The former makes sense, especially considering his athleticism, the latter was a reach and confirmed by the trade up to get Goff.

 

[ANGELAKERAMS]

and what was Tom Brady's grade?

or Matt Hasselbeck?

or Marc Bulger?

or Kurt Warner?

or Tony Romo?

compared to JaMarcus Russell? Tim Couch? Ryan Leaf? Chad Pennington? etc

remember when Aaron Curry was the sure-fire, can't miss prospect in his draft? remember how he turned out?

the point is, these grades don't mean squat. no one knows anything about any player until that player hits the field and proves people right or wrong. and sometimes, a player needs the right system to flourish in as well. Alex Smith is an example of this- terrible in SF, pretty solid QB in KC. I don't think Brady would've become who he did without the Pats system either.

we can argue all day long about prospects grades, where they were drafted, what was given up to draft said player. but hindsight is always 20/20. sometimes they get it right, and alot of times they don't.

let's all just hope this is one of those times they got it right.

 

[LongtimeRamsFan42]

and what was Tom Brady's grade?

or Matt Hasselbeck?

or Marc Bulger?

or Kurt Warner?

or Tony Romo?

compared to JaMarcus Russell? Tim Couch? Ryan Leaf? Chad Pennington? etc

remember when Aaron Curry was the sure-fire, can't miss prospect in his draft? remember how he turned out?

the point is, these grades don't mean squat. no one knows anything about any player until that player hits the field and proves people right or wrong. and sometimes, a player needs the right system to flourish in as well. Alex Smith is an example of this- terrible in SF, pretty solid QB in KC. I don't think Brady would've become who he did without the Pats system either.

we can argue all day long about prospects grades, where they were drafted, what was given up to draft said player. but hindsight is always 20/20. sometimes they get it right, and alot of times they don't.

let's all just hope this is one of those times they got it right.