Captain Marvel 2: The Marvels (2023)

[Duffman]

The movie felt a little rushed but at only 1 hr 45 minutes it’s apparently the shortest MCU movie to date so that kind of make sense.

But the visuals were really cool and as someone who didn’t like Captain Marvel 1 I found this one entertaining enough.

Oh and it’s always good to see Frasier.

 

[Clayton]

The mcu is in a much healthier condition than Star Wars or DC (outside of Batman), but with fatigue and decreasing quality, audience apathy is setting in. Frankly, out of the whole slate of movies they have announced, only Deadpool (which is more of a legacy product) seems guaranteed to be a big success. Everything else has some question marks.

Until this year they were still making tons of money, but now even the good shows like Loki are getting low viewership numbers, and 2/3 movies will have underperformed / bombed at the Box Office (The Marvels will be a disaster similar to "The Flash").

I do wonder if some of the apathy is because these properties are directly competing with video games and video games are winning. By most accounts, this has been one of the four or five best years in video game history.

 

[Duffman]

I do wonder if some of the apathy is because these properties are directly competing with video games and video games are winning. By most accounts, this has been one of the four or five best years in video game history.

I also think over saturation has definitely hurt the MCU overall.

Before it was just movies but now with the inclination of TV, which in the beginning Kevin Feige said you didn’t have to keep up on to understand the movies but that was definitely false.

If you didn’t watch the Disney+ shows you would have no idea who 2/3 main characters in a movie titled The Marvels are if you didn’t watch WandaVision and Mrs Marvel. Hell even Hawkeye too so that’s 3 tv shows you would absolutely have to be up-to-date on to not sit there and go “wait a minute who’s that character and why are they acting like we know her”.

 

[Clayton]

I also think over saturation has definitely hurt the MCU overall.

Before it was just movies but now with the inclination of TV, which in the beginning Kevin Feige said you didn’t have to keep up on to understand the movies but that was definitely false.

If you didn’t watch the Disney+ shows you would have no idea who 2/3 main characters in a movie titled The Marvels are if you didn’t watch WandaVision and Mrs Marvel. Hell even Hawkeye too so that’s 3 tv shows you would absolutely have to be up-to-date on to not sit there and go “wait a minute who’s that character and why are they acting like we know her”.

Yeah, its a full-time job to keep up with everything. Its kind of an issue on both sides. The hardcore maybe have too much theyve already seen and the casual have too much they havent had time to see

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I also think over saturation has definitely hurt the MCU overall.

Before it was just movies but now with the inclination of TV, which in the beginning Kevin Feige said you didn’t have to keep up on to understand the movies but that was definitely false.

If you didn’t watch the Disney+ shows you would have no idea who 2/3 main characters in a movie titled The Marvels are if you didn’t watch WandaVision and Mrs Marvel. Hell even Hawkeye too so that’s 3 tv shows you would absolutely have to be up-to-date on to not sit there and go “wait a minute who’s that character and why are they acting like we know her”.

not sure if I agree or disagree... haven't seen the Marvels yet... but I know with Quantummania(which may have been the worst movie in the Marvel universe), they brought in Kang in a different way than the tv show LOKI... which allowed you not to have to see Loki to learn who Kang was... its just that the people who did watch Loki, knew who Kang was beforehand...

I am sure it will happen in the Marvels as well, where the people who did watch the shows know already who the characters are, but if you didn't, they will explain them enough, that you didn't have to watch the shows...

 

[DarthVedder]

not sure if I agree or disagree... haven't seen the Marvels yet... but I know with Quantummania(which may have been the worst movie in the Marvel universe), they brought in Kang in a different way than the tv show LOKI... which allowed you not to have to see Loki to learn who Kang was... its just that the people who did watch Loki, knew who Kang was beforehand...

I am sure it will happen in the Marvels as well, where the people who did watch the shows know already who the characters are, but if you didn't, they will explain them enough, that you didn't have to watch the shows...

I'm sure they explain who the other two Marvels are, but by doing their origin stories on shows that most people won't watch, they are missing an opportunity to help the audience create an emotional bond with these characters.

 

[wilwhite]

Saw it tonight (have an 11-year-old daughter). It's all very boring and tired and formulaic, no matter how over-the-top weird some "worlds" are.

She loved it.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I'm sure they explain who the other two Marvels are, but by doing their origin stories on shows that most people won't watch, they are missing an opportunity to help the audience create an emotional bond with these characters.

yes and no... or more accurately, it is more complex than that...

those hardcore fans who watched everything already will go in knowing the characters already... the others will have the option to go back and watch the origins of the characters depending on whether they liked those characters or not...

we don't need to watch every origin to understand a character... as long as they are represented well in their big screen premiere...so really you have options, that really shouldn't effect your enjoyment of the actual movie...

also, speaking just for Ms Marvel... I think that might have been the most successful of all the Disney shows, regarding viewership, for its target audience...

 

[wildturkey]

Seen it. It was fine. Not great, not bad. Just perfectly middle of the road standard fare. It's too short though. It definitely needed about 20 or 30 mins to flesh some more stuff out. Would have helped the emotional beats feel a little more earned. They rushed through a lot of stuff too, especially at the start, that would have been better suited if this movie had more time. And since D+ started, there's been a lot of talk about how you need to see the MCU TV shows to understand the movies talk that's mostly been overblown imo. This is the first film that's actually true. I don't see how you can have the same enjoyment without at least seeing Ms. Marvel.

 

[Duffman]

I'm sure they explain who the other two Marvels are, but by doing their origin stories on shows that most people won't watch, they are missing an opportunity to help the audience create an emotional bond with these characters.

not sure if I agree or disagree... haven't seen the Marvels yet... but I know with Quantummania(which may have been the worst movie in the Marvel universe), they brought in Kang in a different way than the tv show LOKI... which allowed you not to have to see Loki to learn who Kang was... its just that the people who did watch Loki, knew who Kang was beforehand...

I am sure it will happen in the Marvels as well, where the people who did watch the shows know already who the characters are, but if you didn't, they will explain them enough, that you didn't have to watch the shows...

They don’t explain them.

They don’t spend any time introducing them. They are just kind of there and you’re supposed to know them. You get a tiny sequence where Kamala is talking about how much she loves Captain Marvel and then pretty much her opening scene is the post credit scene of the TV show is where she switches with Captain Marvel.

But Monica Rambeau if you know nothing of Wandavision then you’d have no idea why the 10 year old girl from Captain Marvel 1 is working side by side with Nic Fury and has Captain Marvel level light based powers.

 

[DarthVedder]

They don’t explain them.

They don’t spend any time introducing them. They are just kind of there and you’re supposed to know them. You get a tiny sequence where Kamala is talking about how much she loves Captain Marvel and then pretty much her opening scene is the post credit scene of the TV show is where she switches with Captain Marvel.

But Monica Rambeau if you know nothing of Wandavision then you’d have no idea why the 10 year old girl from Captain Marvel 1 is working side by side with Nic Fury and has Captain Marvel level light based powers.

Well, that's kind of dumb, especially considering that the movie's really short, they could've used a few minutes introducing them. Even with Spiderman, who was kind of thrown into Civil War, they did a bit of an introduction. And that's Spiderman, Marvel's most popular character.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Apparently it's bombing at the box office. I'm sure the reason for that is how racist, sexist, and homophobic the world is.

I haven't watched anything Disney in years lol (never saw any Star Wars past Last Jedi, think I left the Marvel Universe with Endgame (nope, not even the Spidermans although I did hear they were good, saw some YouTube stuff on it), have not watched a single 'live action'... not that I'm 'protesting' or something, they're all just 'bleh'. They all look so bland/boring/rehashed or just telling the same story again. And then you shoehorn in all the agendas and it's just whatever. The new Indiana Jones just looks depressing...

I dunno why people keep throwing their money at Mr. Mouse.

 

[The Q]

Amazing what happens where you make a movie no one asked for, or wanted

Pushing a cancerous narrative

And yet shocked it would bomb…

 

[DarthVedder]

Amazing what happens where you make a movie no one asked for, or wanted

Pushing a cancerous narrative

And yet shocked it would bomb…

From what I've read, this movie is not pushing any particular agenda, unless you're talking about it having a diverse female cast (which to me is not a problem). The movie is paying for past mistakes in shows like She-Hulk and even the first Capt Marvel, which went heavy on some agenda points, trying to pander to a female audience that never gave them any attention.

 

[wildturkey]

From what I've read, this movie is not pushing any particular agenda, unless you're talking about it having a diverse female cast (which to me is not a problem). The movie is paying for past mistakes in shows like She-Hulk and even the first Capt Marvel, which went heavy on some agenda points, trying to pander to a female audience that never gave them any attention.

I think it has more to do with the fact that its a pretty generic Marvel movie and for the last 15 years, there's been multiple Marvel movies every year. People are just tired. Unless its someone uber popular like Spider Man or Guardians, all the interest in both movies and shows keeps trending downward. Its burnout

 

[DarthVedder]

I think it has more to do with the fact that its a pretty generic Marvel movie and for the last 15 years, there's been multiple Marvel movies every year. People are just tired. Unless its someone uber popular like Spider Man or Guardians, all the interest in both movies and shows keeps trending downward. Its burnout

Burnout / fatigue is certainly part of this. Several generic MCU movies have done great in the past, but it seems like the MCU jumped the shark at some point recently and The Marvels is paying for it (because of its own mediocrity plus as a result of past mistakes, including past projects going too hard with a political message at times). Personally, the moment when I heard that the movie is "wacky fun" was the moment when I decided that I could wait until it is released on streaming.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

From what I've read, this movie is not pushing any particular agenda, unless you're talking about it having a diverse female cast (which to me is not a problem). The movie is paying for past mistakes in shows like She-Hulk and even the first Capt Marvel, which went heavy on some agenda points, trying to pander to a female audience that never gave them any attention.

I think it just boils down to the fact it's probably not a good movie and the audience really never wanted it to begin with. I would probably say the same for Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny.

Add to the fact, the first Captain Marvel really didn't do well (and that did push a social narrative to your point along with Brie Larson's toxicity as a general human being)... also, there wasn't a huge audience for the TV show (hence from what I've heard them having to recap it in the movie lol).

One big thing is the whole Marvel franchise is just kind of a tired formula and people are burnt out on it. The MCU thing is the opinion of many, stupid. Superhero movies are the same ol' tired cliche of the SAME story told over and over and over. CGI is plastered all over the screen these days. The stories are getting more and more stupid/incoherent with villains that frankly nobody gives a damn about. And all the mainstream BIG name comic book heroes are kind of done lol.

So that's one side of it. The movie just isn't any good which I think is the case here. It just... sucks? lol, the CGI is bleh in various parts, I've heard the story is nowhere to be found and leaving the viewers confused, the villain is forgettable, it's the same ol' re-hashed formula we've seen a ton of times, there's a silliness/goofiness to it which... eh... it can work but I don't think the audience really wants it in a superhero movie for the most part. It can be done but it's hard.


Now as for the political side, I think where people get annoyed is how social media 'fans', Disney, the actors, and the woke culture respond. Immediately calling the male audience sexist/bigoted, racist, or homophobic as a result of why the movie sucked. Maybe, just maybe... the movie just sucked in general?

Men absolutely LOVE films like Alien/Aliens, Terminator 1/2, Star Wars (Leia, not Mary Sue Rey), Silence of the Lambs (Clarice), Rita Vrataski (Edge of Tomorrow), Wonder Woman (the first one at least), Fargo (Marge) etc. and those were all movies where strong female leads that CARRIED THE MOVIE. Hell almost the entirety of the movie was based on them. That's where male audiences simply don't understand the hate/backlash and YES, that does drive viewers away and create toxicity from that side of it. Toxicity creates more toxicity... simple as that.

And on the 'Mary Sue Rey' comment. Nobody hated Rey because she was a female. Hell I was down to watch a female Jedi, create them in Star Wars RPG video games, etc... people hated/fell asleep to her because her character was written poorly, boring, and the movies her character was in - just sucked. Guess what Darth Kennedy? We fall asleep to male characters who are created the same way.

So don't give me this men are bigoted or sexist crap.

 

[Black Adam]

Saw it tonight (have an 11-year-old daughter). It's all very boring and tired and formulaic, no matter how over-the-top weird some "worlds" are.

She loved it.

Me and the wife saw it Friday night too. Gotta say it couldn't have gotten any sillier if they tried. The switching, the Flerkins. Definitely a bit much...

 

[wilwhite]

There was nothing deeper and no real emotional charge. If you take the same story and tell it outside of the Marvel universe (which you easily could), it's just terrible. Captain Marvel on an apology tour learning to work with others - plus loads of silliness!

It's down there with Quantumania and Eternals.

They miss Stan Lee.

 

[Comeds]

I do wonder if some of the apathy is because these properties are directly competing with video games and video games are winning. By most accounts, this has been one of the four or five best years in video game history.

Thats a fair point and question. Some of the recent video games featuring have had some pretty great stories. Spider-Man 1 and 22, Miles Morales, Guardians Of The Galaxy have all had pretty great writing that rival the movies. Sometimes better. The first two seasons of The Walking Dead game was easily better written than anything the series ever did.