Cap Hell?

[snookdad]

It's never been a matter of dwelling on it for me ..... Im a fan every year. And I aint fucking switching teams for nothing or nobody.

To me it's just a matter of being an informed fan ..... Whats the dumbest thing you have ever seen on a football forum? To me it's the guys that say lets go sign this guy and that guy .... That we cant afford.

Or the guys that say we MUST resign this guy or that guy .... then cry when the offseason comes and we cant do anything in free agency

we all bitch about Jerry ... just in different ways ..... I just dont get the guys that will cuss him for the situation we are in ... yet at the same time think exactly how he does ( fuck the future this year is what matters)

I think it is only about this season . I will worry about next season when it gets here. In 2011 we beat the hell out of Seattle - 25 points?? They draft a rookie QB in the 2nd or 3rd round the next season and it was a question whether they were gonna bench him after week 5 of 2012 for Matt Flynn. Now that could have been more about Flynns contract than anything, but they didnt and went on to make the playoffs. The next yr they won the Superbowl in arguably the toughest division in the NFL.

I'm worried about this season our salary cap for the season we are about to enter has little effect on what happens on the field this year with this team.

Of course its always one season at a time, that's why i'm not think about the cap right now for next season. Lets let this season play out first.

 

[PDay8810]

I think we all get it but why dwell on something we can't change? To me the options are accept it, move on to another team, or ignore this team until there's a new regime at the helm. I chose to accept it for better for worse.....right now lol we are in the worse. Maybe in the near future that changes but until then I'm all in on those guys will the blue star and silver helmets on their heads.

I think if we had to make some choices on some guys if money is a factor the players you let walk would be Murray Harris and our version of Wes Welker. All are good player, but we can't keep them all.

Great Post!

 

[Otis B. Driftwood]

The Salary Cap wouldn't be of any significance if it weren't for drafts like 2008 and 2009. Back to Back shitty drafts decimate a team.

 

[GNG]

I don't think any of us loved the contract. Many here wanted either to let him play out his contract or sign a 3 yr 15 per deal. It's not what we got. It's over we move on.

Romo is decent but is getting paid like an upper echelon QB.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

So twist now that this whole sky is falling cap hell thing has been dwindled down to solely Romo's contract. Can you admit we are not in cap hell?
& remember. No one is saying we are in some great cap situation, the debate was being in cap hell.
Which we are not.

If you want something to worry about. I would worry about being outcoached every year.

 

[jarntt]

I think we all get it but why dwell on something we can't change? To me the options are accept it, move on to another team, or ignore this team until there's a new regime at the helm. I chose to accept it for better for worse.....right now lol we are in the worse. Maybe in the near future that changes but until then I'm all in on those guys will the blue star and silver helmets on their heads.

I think if we had to make some choices on some guys if money is a factor the players you let walk would be Murray Harris and our version of Wes Welker. All are good player, but we can't keep them all.

Why are those the options? So basically anything that comes up this year has to all into one of those categories? Then why are any of us here? I'll be honest that's just a cop out to me and what we hear often when someone can't make their point.

 

[jarntt]

with open eyes I do see the impact. I also see very little impact if he can play through the 2017 season, because if he does all the complaining is for not.

I just figure since the contract is signed all the crying won't change a thing. At risk of crossing a line I must say you are sounding a bit frying on the subject. It's your right not to like the contract and or the restructures, nut I have to ask. What can we do the change it?

That's a pretty stupid comment to be honest. So, if you agree it's a discussion and if not its crying? I thought we were debating the subject. IMO you guys just don't get it. You still don't even seem to understand my point if you think that if he plays thru 2017 there is little impact. Again, It's Math. Cap impacts do not go away by restructuring they just get moved around. We should be incurring more of his hit now and not kicking it down the road. There was no reason to restructure so much of Romo's contract at this point. It will be used for Dez or T Smith, but it wasn't necessary at the time and it was because of the cap problem we have. I'm not crying about it, but I am saying its stupid, short sighted and typical of this team. Let me know when we are no longer able to criticize the team for factual things that have already happened and i'll just start complaining non stop that our second round pick is 10 LBs too light.

 

[jarntt]

I think it is only about this season . I will worry about next season when it gets here. In 2011 we beat the hell out of Seattle - 25 points?? They draft a rookie QB in the 2nd or 3rd round the next season and it was a question whether they were gonna bench him after week 5 of 2012 for Matt Flynn. Now that could have been more about Flynns contract than anything, but they didnt and went on to make the playoffs. The next yr they won the Superbowl in arguably the toughest division in the NFL.

It is only about this season. It is always only about this season with the Jones clan. That is one of the problems

 

[jarntt]

I'm worried about this season our salary cap for the season we are about to enter has little effect on what happens on the field this year with this team.

Are we a better team this season with or without Ware? Not talking next year and not talking whether or not you agree with cutting him. Just are we better with or without him this season?

 

[jarntt]

The Salary Cap wouldn't be of any significance if it weren't for drafts like 2008 and 2009. Back to Back shitty drafts decimate a team.

Absolutely. Drafting will always be the most important indicator of the talent on a team. If you draft well you get to say good bye to the veterans when they get expensive and replace them with cheaper, younger guys. It also allows you to pick and choose which FAs you sign instead of being forced to sign a guy because of a glaring weakness. Also, we need to hit on some of our later picks.

 

[Manster7588]

That's a pretty stupid comment to be honest. So, if you agree it's a discussion and if not its crying? I thought we were debating the subject. IMO you guys just don't get it. You still don't even seem to understand my point if you think that if he plays thru 2017 there is little impact. Again, It's Math. Cap impacts do not go away by restructuring they just get moved around. We should be incurring more of his hit now and not kicking it down the road. There was no reason to restructure so much of Romo's contract at this point. It will be used for Dez or T Smith, but it wasn't necessary at the time and it was because of the cap problem we have. I'm not crying about it, but I am saying its stupid, short sighted and typical of this team. Let me know when we are no longer able to criticize the team for factual things that have already happened and i'll just start complaining non stop that our second round pick is 10 LBs too light.

I'm just trying to say you're beating a dead horse. I for one was shocked when the $$$$$ and length of the deal was announced. Simply said I thought it wax a bad contract and moved on. I'm not telling you to like the deal just it isn't worth bringing it up every damn day. If Romo had been two years younger and didn't have the back questions would it still have been a bad deal? I don't think so, but giving an injury questionable QB a contract that expires in his late 30's wasn't wise. The restructures were planned from the get go and are/were a necessary part of the equation. If the cap goes up enough in 15 and we don't have to restructure again we will be fine cap wise.

Hell fact is if Romo plays though the 2017 season we will be fin period. I'm just crossing my fingers he stays healthy. Now even if they do restructure and push another 10M into 18 and 19 that leaves 10M dead money spread over two seasons post 2017.

 

[jarntt]

Its a football message board in July. The thread is about the cap. Should I be discussing who I think the backup RT will be? Start that thread and I'm more than willing to discuss that too.

 

[Manster7588]

Its a football message board in July. The thread is about the cap. Should I be discussing who I think the backup RT will be? Start that thread and I'm more than willing to discuss that too.

Nope you're right. The thread is about the cap, but it's not near the glass half full argument you make it out to be, barring injury. The thing is unless you have a young 1st contract QB or simply a crap QB you are an injury away from cap hell.

 

[ROMOTOOWENS]

21 days and there will be plenty to talk about

 

[jarntt]

Nope you're right. The thread is about the cap, but it's not near the glass half full argument you make it out to be, barring injury. The thing is unless you have a young 1st contract QB or simply a crap QB you are an injury away from cap hell.

The Giants aren't an injury away from cap Hell. It's not just the contract we gave Romo its everything else we've done as well over the past years. Here's the big problem with what we did this year. We made a lot of smart cap moves. We cut Ware and let Hatcher go. We structured some contracts of our FA signings in a very cap friendly way. We brought in some guys that my ply. Role for little or no guaranteed money. We signed some good rotation DL so we won't need to sign different guys off the street every week. We did NOT restructure Carr which was smart because you should not restructure high salary guys that you may cut the following year or two,,,if avoidable. But, instead of just doing what we had to on Romo and continuing to dig ourselves out of that hole going forward we went to the max and reduced his salary all the way to $1M or so. There may come a point this year where we need that extra money, but why not just wait until then?

 

[Manster7588]

The Giants aren't an injury away from cap Hell. It's not just the contract we gave Romo its everything else we've done as well over the past years. Here's the big problem with what we did this year. We made a lot of smart cap moves. We cut Ware and let Hatcher go. We structured some contracts of our FA signings in a very cap friendly way. We brought in some guys that my ply. Role for little or no guaranteed money. We signed some good rotation DL so we won't need to sign different guys off the street every week. We did NOT restructure Carr which was smart because you should not restructure high salary guys that you may cut the following year or two,,,if avoidable. But, instead of just doing what we had to on Romo and continuing to dig ourselves out of that hole going forward we went to the max and reduced his salary all the way to $1M or so. There may come a point this year where we need that extra money, but why not just wait until then?

If I understand you correctly, you are agreeing we HAD to restructure Romo but we didn't have to cut his salary as much as we did. We could have kept him at say 4M in 14 and pushed so much into the later years. Is that what you are getting at?

 

[jarntt]

Correct ignoring a particular number. At this point based on the contract and how it was restructured already we had to restructure him again or dismantle the team. We have to restructure him again next year too. The idea is to keep things from getting to this point as much as possible. I would have loved to have Ware for at least one more year, but the way we handled our cap and his contract up to this point made cutting him the right decision at the time we did.

 

[Manster7588]

Correct ignoring a particular number. At this point based on the contract and how it was restructured already we had to restructure him again or dismantle the team. We have to restructure him again next year too. The idea is to keep things from getting to this point as much as possible. I would have loved to have Ware for at least one more year, but the way we handled our cap and his contract up to this point made cutting him the right decision at the time we did.

You bring up my next point. Yes we will more than likely have to restructure Romo again next year. Now lats say we finish with 4M cap space this season and roll that over into 15. This will allow us to not push that much back into 2018/19. No matter how you slice it we were going to push a lot of $$$$ back to later years. We just did it sooner. With any luck the cap skyrockets and we can get though 2015 as is with Romo.

On a side note every type "restructure R" my phone is ready with "Romo". I guess my phone thinks about this as much as you do.

 

[jarntt]

If freeing up cap space for this team resulted in rolling the savings into the following year it wouldn't be as much of a problem, but that's not our MO. We free it up to spend it on someone else now to put us over the top and ignore the future. We generally spend everything we free up by restructuring. Also, even if you do that it is still a problem because you push the restructured $'s out over up to 5 years, while the scenario you described only helps the current year and maybe the next year if you roll the savings into it. Ultimately restructuring often leads to dead money eventually and that is the worst thing to have in a cap world. The value you get on the field from a player should at least somewhat line up with his cap hit. We know it doesn't happen like that, but it cripples you to have no benefit from a player that you are incurring a huge cap hit for after you've cut him.

It's not really as simple as should we restructure Romo. It's the cumulative result of all of the poor cap choices we've made from giving bigger contracts out than we needed to, to signing guys we didn't have to, to restructuring the guys we already signed, to signing FAs because our drafts were so poor. Those poor decisions in the past continued to push money into future years and make even more restructures necessary to allow for our incessant need to keep signing even more guys. It's a vicious cycle. The worst part is most of these decisions were made because we always Acted as if we were a player away and we never really were. I never believe in taking a year off or throwing a season to set you up for the future. I think that is asinine. BUT, I do believe in not going all in every season and instead keeping a long term outlook on the team. This includes the draft (not always worrying about what the guy will give you year 1) and the cap (not trying to free up every possible dollar just to spend it on someone else).

 

[PDay8810]

"BUT, I do believe in not going all in every season and instead keeping a long term outlook on the team"


BUT, This is jerry and he's all in from here on out. The Romo signing confirmed it.
Really....nothing new here.
Glass half full / glass half empty.