Cap Hell?

[Schmoopy1000]

If we look at it the opposite way and go through the year Warner won (can't say defiinitively about active guys) around 25 of the first 34 SB winning teams had HOF QBs and you can make an argument that some of the others were elite. Also, I think only 3 of those years didn't have a HOF QB in the game and some of those years had some decent QBs in the game.

not sure anyone is arguing that elite Qbs have been on a winning superbowl team. But name a superbowl where the winning team lost in the trenches?
the only superbowl I can come up (offhand) with that would be even close is the one the Cowboys lost to the colts. but even that could be argued

 

[tw1st3d]

Looks like a lot of HOF QBs have won the SB over the years.

Bradshaw is in the HOF as well ..... and he was a game manager. Not "elite"

I'll tell you what I see in common with almost all the teams that won a Superbowl in the past 14 years.

Defense
running game
Very good O-lines.

And wait for it ......

No HOF receivers

 

[snookdad]

Totally agree. My point was only regarding the QB position, not about building a team as a whole. And just to reiterate, the words I used were decent to elite as the QB qualifier.

As for perception, most SB teams include that decent to elite QB.

Cali Thanks I don't know how we got on building teams and trenches and all that I was simply making a point about franchise QB's and how it releates to the Salary cap. This has become an entirley different thread now

 

[snookdad]

Bradshaw is in the HOF as well ..... and he was a game manager. Not "elite"

I'll tell you what I see in common with almost all the teams that won a Superbowl in the past 14 years.

Defense
running game
Very good O-lines.

And wait for it ......

No HOF receivers

Bradshaw wasn't elite off the elite but he was without question a franchise qb. I personally believe a "game manger can be a Franchise qb..Maybe if Romo was a better game manager we would have seen more success in the playoffs.

 

[snookdad]

I agree the superbowl team needs a decent QB, but think the success of a team by elite QBs is overrated.
Manning is one of those Qbs that can carry a non playoff team deep into a playoff, but there are very few of those exceptions. I think elite gets used to much which waters down the word. Alot of times Qb are considered elite because of their surroundings & therfore their production. Very few Qbs are elite without the supporting cast. Those Qbs are the ones I consider the exception.

I agree Elite is way over used in all sports. IMO elite and franchise qb is to different things though. Kinda like Pro bowler and All pro. All of the qb's I named earlier have pro bowl level talent , but not All Pro or HOF talent.

 

[snookdad]

I don't think there is necessarily any right or wrong way to build a team or to win a SB. Teams do it with Offense, teams do it with defense and teams do it with balance. The idea is to outscore the teams you play and it doesn't matter if it is 3-0 or 50-49. There are definitely easier ways to build a SB team, but you can even win one with a poor QB if the rest of your team compensates for that shortfall even though a stud QB is easily the most important piece of any Football team.

 

[ROMOTOOWENS]

Bradshaw is in the HOF as well ..... and he was a game manager. Not "elite"

I'll tell you what I see in common with almost all the teams that won a Superbowl in the past 14 years.

Defense
running game
Very good O-lines.

And wait for it ......

No HOF receivers

Very true for the most part. I would say Harrison and Wayne will make HOF.

 

[jarntt]

Bradshaw is in the HOF as well ..... and he was a game manager. Not "elite"

I'll tell you what I see in common with almost all the teams that won a Superbowl in the past 14 years.

Defense
running game
Very good O-lines.

And wait for it ......

No HOF receivers

Good thing we didn't trade up for Watkins!!!

 

[snookdad]

Very true for the most part. I would say Harrison and Wayne will make HOF.

Good point I'm thinking Isaac Bruce and Wes Welker will also be HOFers and Torrey Holt maybe but those two won their rings probably more like 15 yrs ago. Truth is it's not very easy for a WR to get in the hall these days. Look how it it's been for Lofton, Reed, and Tim Brown. Hells Chris Carter who is a top 5 wr all times in IMO caught Hell trying to get in.

 

[snookdad]

Good thing we didn't trade up for Watkins!!!

 

[jarntt]

Bradshaw wasn't elite off the elite but he was without question a franchise qb. I personally believe a "game manger can be a Franchise qb..Maybe if Romo was a better game manager we would have seen more success in the playoffs.

I guess we get down to semantics. To me HOF is the pinnacle; higher than elite, higher than All Pro and Pro Bowl and everything else which can be just for a year or two. Because it's one of the best of All Time, not just amongst your contemporaries. But, I'm certainly not going to take part in that discussion!!!

 

[tw1st3d]

Good thing we didn't trade up for Watkins!!!

LOL

 

[tw1st3d]

Good point I'm thinking Isaac Bruce and Wes Welker will also be HOFers and Torrey Holt maybe but those two won their rings probably more like 15 yrs ago. Truth is it's not very easy for a WR to get in the hall these days. Look how it it's been for Lofton, Reed, and Tim Brown. Hells Chris Carter who is a top 5 wr all times in IMO caught Hell trying to get in.

Holt and Bruce got their rings the year before.... so correct 15 years ago

agreed on the receiver part going into the Hall. It's only going to get harder

Plus Harrison had that gun incident and has been off the radar since ..... That might count against him.

and hell the thing that may count against them both ..... They played with Manning

 

[snookdad]

I guess we get down to semantics. To me HOF is the pinnacle; higher than elite, higher than All Pro and Pro Bowl and everything else which can be just for a year or two. Because it's one of the best of All Time, not just amongst your contemporaries. But, I'm certainly not going to take part in that discussion!!!

I should have been more specific when I said All Pro or Pro Bowl I'm talking x7 or 8 plus in most cases, but yeah in a nut shell I don't disagree with what our saying.

 

[snookdad]

Holt and Bruce got their rings the year before.... so correct 15 years ago

agreed on the receiver part going into the Hall. It's only going to get harder

Plus Harrison had that gun incident and has been off the radar since ..... That might count against him.

and hell the thing that may count against them both ..... They played with Manning

These days for a wr to get into the hall he'd better have some goddy numbers in the past 50 TD's what about 8000 plus (I pulled that number out of pie in the sky but I hope it's close lol) yards was the measuring stick with a now pass happy league and all the new protections and bogus calls for the offense the numbers need to be elevated big time 70 TD's plus more yards at minimum 10 to 12k . Guys like Andre Johnson who routinley catch 100 balls but on avg get 5 or 6 td's wouldn't sniff the HOF. Andre's T.D. or anemic based on his career output in yards and cathes.