Cap Hell?

[PDay8810]

1. Eli Manning, QB, New York Giants
2013 cap hit: $20.8 million
2013 JVM: $5.4M
Value differential: $15.4M
It seemed as if Manning was improving year after year and had worked his way into the second tier of quarterbacks. He seemed to hit a peak in his Super Bowl season of 2011, and then took a minor step back in 2012. This was followed by 2013, which was a major step in the wrong direction.
Manning's accuracy percentage of 57.5 was second-worst among starting quarterbacks, and his inaccuracy led to 27 interceptions (more INTs than any QB has had in a season since 2005). He threw the ball better than average on intermediate and -- at times -- deep throws, which still made him worth a decent amount of money, but not anywhere close to his cap hit of $20.8 million.
He has two more years on his contract, where he is owed roughly the same amount in annual value as he was in 2013. He is 33, the age where quarterbacks typically start to decline, so even if he has a slight rebound, he would continue to be the most overpaid player in the NFL

 

[jarntt]

I'm guessing that is related to my post, but I'm not sure what exaclty the point is. I will say that I agree with what is written there. I think the fact that his OL made ours look like the 90's Cowboys OL, they had no RBs to speak of and basically one receiving option all certainly played a role in his season.

 

[ROMOTOOWENS]

Always been impressed with Eli's toughness and durability. Those winds in NY tend to give him trouble though. He will have the Raiders guy behind him this year at RB- who I think will be a stud. He is a solid QB.

 

[jarntt]

Although they are a little better in the new stadium, those winds give EVERYONE trouble. I was just there a couple weeks ago and even on a June night it was windy and cool.

 

[PDay8810]

I'm guessing that is related to my post, but I'm not sure what exaclty the point is. I will say that I agree with what is written there. I think the fact that his OL made ours look like the 90's Cowboys OL, they had no RBs to speak of and basically one receiving option all certainly played a role in his season.

Maybe NYG is seeing the rapid decline and pushing another 2 years at 20M. He is after all the least bang for your buck in the NFL based on production.

 

[jarntt]

Maybe NYG is seeing the rapid decline and pushing another 2 years at 20M. He is after all the least bang for your buck in the NFL based on production.

OK, gotcha. I think they are too and I think that is a great cap and Football decision on their part. If he turns it around this year and becomes ELIte again they can always extend him then. Would Jerry do the same if that was the situation here? My guess is he'd have already restructured him so many times that the point becomes moot, but who knows.

 

[PDay8810]

OK, gotcha. I think they are too and I think that is a great cap and Football decision on their part. If he turns it around this year and becomes ELIte again they can always extend him then. Would Jerry do the same if that was the situation here? My guess is he'd have already restructured him so many times that the point becomes moot, but who knows.

I think jerry would screw that up as well

 

[snookdad]

No they aren't. It only shows that to people who want to ignore what else is going on. Lets take the Giants and Eli. Extend him out a couple of years so you can distribute any restructure of his salary over 5 years and then restructure his 2014 salary on paper to drop it to $1M like we did with Romo and it creates $11M in cap space for them this year. Now compare the two teams. You can keep talking about the CURRENT cap space, but unless you acknowledge how we got there (pushing $'s into outer years) it's completely misleading. Here's a nice comparison for the two tems. If they cut Eli this year he has $7M in dead money. If we cut Romo we have $49M. But yes, as of today we have more cap space than them. Good job by us...

You let him "manage the cap"...I see him just as short sighted and almost as inept at that as with everything else.

All valid points but in fairness unless Romo has a catastrophic career ending injury he'd never get cut infact Romo is going to be here at least 2 more years even if we suck this year; for that reason. The dead money would be ridiculous so we will keep him for no other reason even if we do suck. It would be a necessary strategic move in keeping him and maybe we would still draft our qb of the future if we do go say 6-10. We are married to Romo's contract for the next two seasons to avoid having that dead money hit until it can be better managed. I honestly believe Jerry is going to actually get this one right if we continue to draft well and avoid signing F/A that won't make us contenders i.e. Carr

 

[jarntt]

The main pioint is that the ONLY reason we have that much cap space is because we restructured so much of Romo's contract. It is misleading and the cap savings is "forced" for lack of a better word. So quoting the cap space is misleading.

On Romo, IMO we should be lessening the future cap hit of a mid 30's QB with back concerns right now "just in case", not increasing it, but that is I guess up for debate.

 

[Manster7588]

The main pioint is that the ONLY reason we have that much cap space is because we restructured so much of Romo's contract. It is misleading and the cap savings is "forced" for lack of a better word. So quoting the cap space is misleading.

On Romo, IMO we should be lessening the future cap hit of a mid 30's QB with back concerns right now "just in case", not increasing it, but that is I guess up for debate.

You need to get over Romo's restructure. Barring injury the plan was for him to play the 2017 season, the restructure simply pushed some of his guaranteed money into 2018. We may restructure him again adding to the possible 2018/19 dead money but as of now he was going to get every penny were going to pay him anyway. He'll we all knew soon after he signed his deal they would restructure it.

 

[snookdad]

You need to get over Romo's restructure. Barring injury the plan was for him to play the 2017 season, the restructure simply pushed some of his guaranteed money into 2018. We may restructure him again adding to the possible 2018/19 dead money but as of now he was going to get every penny were going to pay him anyway. He'll we all knew soon after he signed his deal they would restructure it.

Even though to began with I never liked his contract and thought he should get a contract that was more like Schuabs at the time and the one the Red Rifle will likely get. Love him or hate him Romo is our guy for a minimum of 2 years. For the record I love Romo but have becoming growingly distrustful of him in critical moments of the ball game and never thought he should have seen a 100M contract

 

[PDay8810]

"Hell we all knew soon after he signed his deal they would restructure it"

I think this remains the part for me and why I don't understand this hair is on fire attitude about our cap situation

 

[jarntt]

You need to get over Romo's restructure. Barring injury the plan was for him to play the 2017 season, the restructure simply pushed some of his guaranteed money into 2018. We may restructure him again adding to the possible 2018/19 dead money but as of now he was going to get every penny were going to pay him anyway. He'll we all knew soon after he signed his deal they would restructure it.

No, I don't. You guys need to understand the impact of it. It's not just about whether he gets the money or not. I'm not sure why you see the discussion as that simple. That in and of itself is a problem, but not the main point I'm making. It's about what year the cap hit shows up in, not just whether or not it is incurred. We just hurt teh next 4 years to help us get further under the cap this year and as of right now we don't even need the space. I'm sorry but you can't make a sensible case that this team is better off reducing his salary to $1M this year and pushing more money out into future years. If you want to argue we should have reduced him to $6M or so to get us under the cap and give us some operating room I would agree that even though it's proof we have a cap issue it is also something we needed to do to field a team this year. Reducing him even further is asinine. Look at what the Bears did with Cutler. They converted some of his salary to bonus, not the max.

We will absolutely restructure him again because we are too stupid to see the long term problem of the max restructures each year. I said that the day he signed his contract and every day since.

 

[Manster7588]

Even though to began with I never liked his contract and thought he should get a contract that was more like Schuabs at the time and the one the Red Rifle will likely get. Love him or hate him Romo is our guy for a minimum of 2 years. For the record I love Romo but have becoming growingly distrustful of him in critical moments of the ball game and never thought he should have seen a 100M contract

I don't think any of us loved the contract. Many here wanted either to let him play out his contract or sign a 3 yr 15 per deal. It's not what we got. It's over we move on.

 

[Manster7588]

No, I don't. You guys need to understand the impact of it. It's not just about whether he gets the money or not. I'm not sure why you see the discussion as that simple. That in and of itself is a problem, but not the main point I'm making. It's about what year the cap hit shows up in, not just whether or not it is incurred. We just hurt teh next 4 years to help us get further under the cap this year and as of right now we don't even need the space. I'm sorry but you can't make a sensible case that this team is better off reducing his salary to $1M this year and pushing more money out into future years. If you want to argue we should have reduced him to $6M or so to get us under the cap and give us some operating room I would agree that even though it's proof we have a cap issue it is also something we needed to do to field a team this year. Reducing him even further is asinine. Look at what the Bears did with Cutler. They converted some of his salary to bonus, not the max.

We will absolutely restructure him again because we are too stupid to see the long term problem of the max restructures each year. I said that the day he signed his contract and every day since.

with open eyes I do see the impact. I also see very little impact if he can play through the 2017 season, because if he does all the complaining is for not.

I just figure since the contract is signed all the crying won't change a thing. At risk of crossing a line I must say you are sounding a bit frying on the subject. It's your right not to like the contract and or the restructures, nut I have to ask. What can we do the change it?

 

[tw1st3d]

I'm glad Jarntt gets it.

Sure you can create cap space ..... but it comes back to haunt you in the future.

Me personally ... I like our young core.

and it's not gonna really hurt the "this year is all that matters" guys .... until that hits means you cant resign someone ... Dez? Smith? Frederick in a few years.. Murray? Dunbar? ect ect

Now I do think we find a way to resign Dez and Smith .... but what happens in a few years when we have to sign Frederick ( one position most of us bitched about for a decade?) How about Murray? Anyone not notice the difference in this team when he isn't on the field?
How about how bad our special teams has been in the past... finally looks fixed.... Harris is gone after this year cant afford to bring him back
How about mini Wes Welker? Cant afford to bring him back either.
All that depth we created on the D-line? Most are free agents after this year ..... that depth wont be coming back
and we gave up 2 draft picks ... that could have played a role in replacing that depth

As always though .... EVERYTHING REMAINS THIS SEASON to most ..... but Jerry Jones is an idiot for thinking that exact same way

 

[snookdad]

I think we all get it but why dwell on something we can't change? To me the options are accept it, move on to another team, or ignore this team until there's a new regime at the helm. I chose to accept it for better for worse.....right now lol we are in the worse. Maybe in the near future that changes but until then I'm all in on those guys will the blue star and silver helmets on their heads.

I think if we had to make some choices on some guys if money is a factor the players you let walk would be Murray Harris and our version of Wes Welker. All are good player, but we can't keep them all.

 

[tw1st3d]

I think we all get it but why dwell on something we can't change? To me the options are accept it, move on to another team, or ignore this team until there's a new regime at the helm. I chose to accept it for better for worse.....right now lol we are in the worse. Maybe in the near future that changes but until then I'm all in on those guys will the blue star and silver helmets on their heads.

I think if we had to make some choices on some guys if money is a factor the players you let walk would be Murray Harris and our version of Wes Welker. All are good player, but we can't keep them all.

It's never been a matter of dwelling on it for me ..... Im a fan every year. And I aint fucking switching teams for nothing or nobody.

To me it's just a matter of being an informed fan ..... Whats the dumbest thing you have ever seen on a football forum? To me it's the guys that say lets go sign this guy and that guy .... That we cant afford.

Or the guys that say we MUST resign this guy or that guy .... then cry when the offseason comes and we cant do anything in free agency

we all bitch about Jerry ... just in different ways ..... I just dont get the guys that will cuss him for the situation we are in ... yet at the same time think exactly how he does ( fuck the future this year is what matters)

 

[ROMOTOOWENS]

I think it is only about this season . I will worry about next season when it gets here. In 2011 we beat the hell out of Seattle - 25 points?? They draft a rookie QB in the 2nd or 3rd round the next season and it was a question whether they were gonna bench him after week 5 of 2012 for Matt Flynn. Now that could have been more about Flynns contract than anything, but they didnt and went on to make the playoffs. The next yr they won the Superbowl in arguably the toughest division in the NFL.

 

[snookdad]

It's never been a matter of dwelling on it for me ..... Im a fan every year. And I aint fucking switching teams for nothing or nobody.

To me it's just a matter of being an informed fan ..... Whats the dumbest thing you have ever seen on a football forum? To me it's the guys that say lets go sign this guy and that guy .... That we cant afford.

Or the guys that say we MUST resign this guy or that guy .... then cry when the offseason comes and we cant do anything in free agency

we all bitch about Jerry ... just in different ways ..... I just dont get the guys that will cuss him for the situation we are in ... yet at the same time think exactly how he does ( fuck the future this year is what matters)

I'm worried about this season our salary cap for the season we are about to enter has little effect on what happens on the field this year with this team.