Can Warren Moon do everyone a favor and shut the hell up?

[Doublejive]

Trust me I was born in Bellevue,went to school with all the old money on the eastside,skiing etc.

I could tell some storys that's for sure about many people you would know.

 

[Doublejive]

As far as coaching in the NFL it was a club for many years that not many can ever be allowed to even sniff,same with scouts,they all know eachother,it's just the way it is.

 

[SEC Official]

Seriously I feel like every year he pulls out the race card.

For those of you unaware Warren Moon recently stated that he feels the NFL has a bias towards African American QBs.

This whole argument is crap...

I work with numbers for a living... spinning them mainly for financial purposes.

Ignorant people get statistics and demographics confused with bias.

So 98% of the NBA is African American. Does that mean they are anti-white? No, that means that African American kids are on those courts from dawn till dusk in most lower income areas... (it is free), while there are a lot more spoiled white kids who are inside played video games, going to soccer practice, karate, etc.

It is a function of demographics.

Football unfortunately suffers from some of the reverse issue. The issue starts in pee wee football. How many of us know kids who were the QB because their dad was coach? They start early.. and it sticks through the ranks. What is the % of white coaches at those levels to African American coaches? There you go.. that is demographics ... not racism.

Also, what % of the population is white vs. African American? Maybe we should put quotas on each sport to mimic the population? That would shut the door on so many African American athletes it would be crazy.

This entire debate is stupid.. African American's significantly over-index in most sports. Exceptions where they under-index vs. the population would be Ice Hockey, Tennis, etc... but they are few... and for every one of those sports, we have 10 where the over-index.

 

[yossarian]

There's no doubt that Warren Moon suffered a lot from racist attitudes in his college career and his attempted entry into pros. However, I'd be curious about how his thinking gibes with two examples in his own NFC West backyard. This last year Russell Wilson, the rookie, got the start over Matt Flynn when everyone agreed before the season started that the safest thing would just be to hand the job to Flynn, give him the most reps in training camp and let Russell sit. Also Jim Harbaugh started Colin Kaepernick in the last half of the season over Alex Smith when Smith was playing at a high level and was doing very well. Those things don't happen if there was some racist attitude throughout the coaching community that minority quarterbacks can't get it done.

 

[WizardHawk]

I don't think anyone has ever said a black athlete who plays QB can never be treated fairly. Sure, Wilson got the nod over Flynn and the bitching and moaning from fans and the media was about Russell's height, not race.

People who have never suffered racism tend to not see it where it exists and those who have suffered it tend to see it even when it isn't there. Fair enough?

To suggest it doesn't exist at all in the NFL would be wrong and to suggest it is rampant and everywhere would also be a gross mischaracterization.

You do have to ask some questions though and maybe you don't come to the same conclusions, but you have to try to see where someone else might not agree with you and why.

One of you talked about coaches at the lower levels. It does start down there, but there are black coaches in peewee leagues and up to high school. Heck, I went to HS back in the early 80's and there were several black coaches in Seattle's metro league. Once you get past HS the numbers fall off. It is a fair question to ask why. Doesn't mean it is ALL racism, nor that NONE of it is. The answer lies somewhere in between and there is debate as to how much in either direction.

Some of you have pointed out there are way more black players in the NFL than white. If it is true that almost all coordinators and HC's were former players, then how do you explain that there are almost no blacks in those roles, yet they comprise the supermajority of players? This is what makes the Rooney rule a farse. Until you identify ways to get more qualified black coaches in the coordinator role you can't increase the HC count.

I will just follow up again by saying I don't see racism as being anywhere near as prevalent as Moon and others might believe, but I see why they have questions.

As to the behind the scenes conversations, I'm sure you weren't privy to times where Moon or other prominent black athletes may have been face to face with racism. How many times do you think they were even told to their face something about not being good enough because of their race? The answer is we just don't know. I remember Moon talking about a few stories, but the entire show I watched on him was far more about what he did on the field than matters of race. Doubt the race stuff took up more than 10% of the show.

 

[yossarian]

I would not presume to second guess Moon's attitude and what he went through. I would also note that Mike Silver wrote a piece on how the latest issue in race is at the assistant coaching level, which is the feeder system for head coaches in the NFL.

 

[HammerDown]

I would not presume to second guess Moon's attitude and what he went through. I would also note that Mike Silver wrote a piece on how the latest issue in race is at the assistant coaching level, which is the feeder system for head coaches in the NFL.

Well, the inherent problem here is that Warren Moon is not a person of character. You're giving him way too much credit. He had a great arm and zero credibility. His motives are obviously suspect and he's a self-serving hypocrite. End of story.

 

[HammerDown]

And as far as what he "went through" come on! He was paid tens of millions of dollars to play a silly game. His incessant, years-long sobbing is nothing short of revolting. I would imagine there are many black men who hate his fucking guts. He pretends to represent his race. Well, he does so very, very poorly! My advice to Mr. Moon would be to stop beating women and endangering our children with his drunk driving and then maybe he can start lecturing us on social ills and victimization of black QBs.

 

[HammerDown]

I just invited Warren Moon to our thread.

 

[yossarian]

And as far as what he "went through" come on! He was paid tens of millions of dollars to play a silly game. His incessant, years-long sobbing is nothing short of revolting. I would imagine there are many black men who hate his fucking guts. He pretends to represent his race. Well, he does so very, very poorly! My advice to Mr. Moon would be to stop beating women and endangering our children with his drunk driving and then maybe he can start lecturing us on social ills and victimization of black QBs.

I won't defend Warren Moon's character, I'm well aware of those issues, living in Seattle, but that doesn't necessarily mean his other points are invalid. Again, I don't think that black quarterbacks get a raw deal anymore, but upper management, head coaches, etc., that may be more of an issue.

 

[SEC Official]

There's no doubt that Warren Moon suffered a lot from racist attitudes in his college career and his attempted entry into pros

I agree.. but even people who have experienced it need to move on. That was what Martin Luther preached, and I agree with him. As long as people hold ill will and make an issue out of these things, they will continue to be issues.

I often wonder about Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and company. The moment racism ceases to exist, they are out of business. So, are they really champions of civil rights or are they making the problems worse by claiming race constantly in some sort of delusional self-preservation?

 

[HammerDown]

I agree.. but even people who have experienced it need to move on. That was what Martin Luther preached, and I agree with him. As long as people hold ill will and make an issue out of these things, they will continue to be issues.

I often wonder about Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and company. The moment racism ceases to exist, they are out of business. So, are they really champions of civil rights or are they making the problems worse by claiming race constantly in some sort of delusional self-preservation?

They love racism (real or perceived) to the very core of their being. They revel in it. They delight in its every nuance and owe every second of their lascivious lifestyle to it. They are the very embodiment of racism.

 

[USCDoom]

I was a huge Oiler and Moon fan, but this guy is a Moron.

First of All I am sick a tired of people REDEFINING Racism.

Willie Wood (American football) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

THAT IS RACISM.

Hall Of Fame Football player not even drafted because he played QB and was Black. He had to Beg to play football.

There is NO RACISM in Football today. Only NEW RACISM. See once the REAL Racism was over, CRYBABIES still needed to CRY, so they changed the Definition of Racism. Now saying a Truth about a Black QB is racist.

 

[Doublejive]

I just invited Warren Moon to our thread.

Tell him to bring Steve Pool,,,,

 

[dredinis21]

I don't think that we can compartmentalize racism in football based on who is feeling it. Black QBs are being drafted and developed now because teams don't want to be Bear Bryant, where he refused to have black players on his team until his Alabama team got their asses kicked by a USC squad with a bunch of black players. But if there are statistics that shows that there huge discrepancies with regards to hiring black asst coaches, HC, GMs, owners, etc., then it still exists in football, just not as much as it used to.

Just my $0.02, for what its worth.

And I don't believe that Warren Moon's life choices should necessarily negate what he says regarding this issue, considering that he personally lived it and was one of the trailblazers that paved the way towards breaking the perceptions and stereotypes of the black QB.

 

[Doublejive]

Well to be fair on this debate and I am white but I think I am of the same groupthink rightly or wrongly but many people found black QB's kinda like black swimmers,they panic in the pocket etc,look at Kordell Stewart or Vick etc they all cannot do those amazing passes that takes patience that a Montana or Elway could do.


Has there been any black QB to make you really say "Wow he hits the recievers in stride just like a whiteguy" not one for me until recently,and Warren Moon could not do that.

And this is not intended to be racist,just what it is.

 

[USCDoom]

I don't think that we can compartmentalize racism in football based on who is feeling it. Black QBs are being drafted and developed now because teams don't want to be Bear Bryant, where he refused to have black players on his team until his Alabama team got their asses kicked by a USC squad with a bunch of black players. But if there are statistics that shows that there huge discrepancies with regards to hiring black asst coaches, HC, GMs, owners, etc., then it still exists in football, just not as much as it used to.

Just my $0.02, for what its worth.

And I don't believe that Warren Moon's life choices should necessarily negate what he says regarding this issue, considering that he personally lived it and was one of the trailblazers that paved the way towards breaking the perceptions and stereotypes of the black QB.

USC did not have a bunch of black players, they had an All Black Starting Backfield at the time, which was super rare. Plus it was Alabama not Bryant that forbade recruiting black players. It was why the game was scheduled. Bryant knew his Bama team was not that good and was falling behind. He needed the fans and alumni of Alabama to soften their stance on black player on the team.

If Bryant did not want black players, there is no way he would have schedule a game vs an all black starting backfield vs one of his crappier teams at Bama.

I agree with you about Moon facing real racism. He should have never had to spend one second in the CFL. IMO I think he is imposing his own experience unto others.

 

[Doublejive]

By the way I have a few black/Africa American friends and we have went fishing and I know through the years if im getting drunk and wish to play a trick I start rocking the boat and they dash to them life jackets lol.

But we are seeing some very good black QB's today and I don't think that will change if anything we will see more imo,football is evolving and QB's that can run and pass will become the mainstay white or black.

 

[dredinis21]

As a former collegiate swimmer and now currently a swim coach who also holds a position as Diversity Chair for the Western US, I can assure you that the stereotype of the black swimmer has more to do with historical closure of the sport then the fact that blacks can't swim. If you remember Jim Crowe laws and "colored" pools vs. white pools, where the "colored" pools were not taken care of and therefore the African American community didn't actively participate in the sport. This is an example of why the participation wasn't there. If you also factor in the fact that swimming has become an middle class/upper middle class sport, the sport indirectly excludes certain socioeconomic groups by simply pricing them out.

Why do I bring this up? Simply to provide perspective as to the social implications of what Doublejive just brought up. I will tie it to football now. Since the start, white QBs have dominated the position and have had DECADES to improve upon panic in the pocket, hitting receivers in stride, etc. If you look at the trajectory of passing in the game, you will see the constant increase of passing efficiency and overall passing attempts over the last 60 years. During that 60 yr span, black QBs have only had been given a chance at the position for like half of that time span. You hear all the stories of black QBs being converted to other positions...or college coaches signing black QBs only to switch them ot CB or WR. The opportunity has to be given in order to progress. But the ability, as shown by the latest black QBs, to turn these perceptions over on their heads, is what makes that a moot point now.

The bigger issue IMO is more FO then playing field now. So progress is there but football isn't cleared yet of racism in the sport.

 

[Doublejive]

I knew it,really so every black male that I have known that cannot swim,yet 95% or more white males that can and you are saying to me BS? your high man.

Why don't you get it out of you and call me a racist then?