C-19 Vaccinations

[Wolves008]

what logic is BS , are you saying the antibodies used to treat my sister in law and cure her are false ?

Could be that he's saying that - for your sister in law - since she'd already gotten COVID severely, a vaccine wouldn't be helpful. Just google "deathbed covid patient vaccine" to see that dying people ask for the vaccine, only for their doctors to tell them "yeah it's too late for that".

But, I guess natural antibodies can help active COIVD patients based on what you're saying? That's great for your SIL and I hope she recovers. The vaccine likely would have prevented her from getting into that state, but - once in said bad state - the vaccine can't really help at all. It's not a cure. it's a preventative measure.

 

[skinsdad62]

Could be that he's saying that - for your sister in law - since she'd already gotten COVID severely, a vaccine wouldn't be helpful. Just google "deathbed covid patient vaccine" to see that dying people ask for the vaccine, only for their doctors to tell them "yeah it's too late for that".

But, I guess natural antibodies can help active COIVD patients based on what you're saying? That's great for your SIL and I hope she recovers. The vaccine likely would have prevented her from getting into that state, but - once in said bad state - the vaccine can't really help at all. It's not a cure. it's a preventative measure.

My answer was predicated on him telling me what was BS on my logic . It’s helps about 3 out of 10 before you get ventilated. Getting ventilation is an 80 % chance of death .

my anti bodies stopped the decline for her so hence I donate plasma to help others and I believe I won’t get it a 3rd time . I no of no recorded cases Of 3

 

[Wolves008]

My answer was predicated on him telling me what was BS on my logic . It’s helps about 3 out of 10 before you get ventilated. Getting ventilation is an 80 % chance of death .

my anti bodies stopped the decline for her so hence I donate plasma to help others and I believe I won’t get it a 3rd time . I no of no recorded cases Of 3

The BS in your logic was correlating your SIL's doctor's decision to go for a plasma donor with natural antibodies as opposed vaccinated as being a negative medical decision against getting vaccinated. It's a false equivalence argument.

Ask that doctor if he thinks you should get vaccinated. If he thinks anyone should.

 

[skinsdad62]

The BS in your logic was correlating your SIL's doctor's decision to go for a plasma donor with natural antibodies as opposed vaccinated as being a negative medical decision against getting vaccinated. It's a false equivalence argument.

Ask that doctor if he thinks you should get vaccinated. If he thinks anyone should.

No it isn’t it’s saying I can help others and I have low risk getting it again .
I am not arguing that the vax doesn’t mitigate symptoms and is good for you at that .

It’s the best treatment we have but the whole debate stems from different rules for different status’ in an attempt to enforce compliance when you can get and pass the virus either way .

we played a full schedule with no deaths last yr using only protocols and it can be done again without singling out a group of people

 

[Wolves008]

No it isn’t it’s saying I can help others and I have low risk getting it again .
I am not arguing that the vax doesn’t mitigate symptoms and is good for you at that .

It’s the best treatment we have but the whole debate stems from different rules for different status’ in an attempt to enforce compliance when you can get and pass the virus either way .

we played a full schedule with no deaths last yr using only protocols and it can be done again without singling out a group of people

We played a whole seasons with delayed games and mitigated crowed sizes with mask mandates. I'm vaccinated. Am I safe from covid? Fuck no. I could have it right now and not know. Could never feel a think. I could get it and feel a little bad. I'd get tested and then get a week off work. Sweet! I could get it and have serious complications and/or die. But I'm 31 and vaccinated so I'm not worried about that. The chance of that happening is fleetingly small.

I can still carry the virus, even without symptoms. Do I care? Nope. Texas doesn't require me to. I've seen a lot more people choosing to wear masks lately around here. Smart, but I'm not going to, because I'm over concerning myself over other peoples' health when they have the ability to solve it themselves (Read: Vaccine)

That applies to everyone. So if I am an asymptomatic covid carrier and I cough on a non-vaxxed NFL player and infect them, that's on them. Might have too actually. I live directly behind the Cowboys' practice facility and we're having an outbreak now. Both Texas and the Cowboys. Nothing we can do for breakout cases, but for the unvaccinated players?

At this point I'd just call it being a bad teammate.

 

[skinsdad62]

The chances of anyone getting it and dying from it is small to begin with .

 

[Wolves008]

The chances of anyone getting it and dying from it is small to begin with .

That's true. The deadliness of covid has never been the problem. It's contagiousness and our lack of immunity. That is the problem. We have quite a few states that are rapidly losing their capacity for hospital care because covid beds are taking up most of the space.

Masks were always preventative. As was social distancing. As is vaccination.

The #1 goal in this shit was always to not overwhelm our hospital system. I just googled "US covid" to look at the graph, and - thankfully - our exponential curve has turned downwards recently. I'm very happy that's happening.

Here's your logical BS #2: You're not responding to my arguments directly. You're responding to me by ignoring what I say and responding to an imagined argument instead.

That's called a non-sequitur. Also illogical.

 

[skinsdad62]

I am not following you , what you responded to was a snippet from the entirety of the debating point of the thread

 

[skinsdad62]

Wow reality hit pretty hard today about mandated vaccines . My sister in law has Covid and is struggling to survive . Her Dr asked for people who had a certain blood type , had had Covid , and HAD NOT been vaccinated so he could treat her with antibodies .

Fortunately my wife fit the criterion and is on her way to donate plasma to give her sister a fighting chance to survive .

If she was forced into taking the vaccine by work or by interstate travel nonsense or some of our major cities mandating this to function like going to restaurants or entering certain types of business then this opportunity would have been lost .

I am not anti vaccine . I am anti mandate or coerced taking of the vaccine

This situation was something that never would have occurred to me . I was all about screw you it’s my choice but now something else has entered the fray

I have had Covid twice and now I have the chance to donate plasma to help other victims of this virus and I will .

Hopefully my work won’t mandate it and will accept testing as an alternative and wearing a mask .

Hopefully we will stop this mandate madness and think things all the way through.

Because this opportunity will be lost and all because of pride

There are legit reasons not to take the vaccines

There are foolish ones out there as well

But why should I be denied on doing what I feel is right because of some power hungry bureaucrats who feel THEY know better and are unelected to boot ?

I beat this twice. The odds of getting it 3x is astronomical. So why can’t I make the choice that fits me ? Same with the players
This is the original statement .
first my wife donated , the DR asked for it , no bs
If she was vaccinated ( my wife ) it wouldn’t work no bs
Opportunity lost ( no bs )
Not anti vax anti mandates (no bs )
Legit reason not to vax ( no BS , I just gave one )
Foolish reasons not too ( no BS there are stupid ones )
It’s america and I have the right to analyze and manage risk and do what fits me that was in my statement. Data backs up my position
What you brought up wasn’t a part of the conversation at that point

 

[Wolves008]

Wow reality hit pretty hard today about mandated vaccines . My sister in law has Covid and is struggling to survive . Her Dr asked for people who had a certain blood type , had had Covid , and HAD NOT been vaccinated so he could treat her with antibodies .

Fortunately my wife fit the criterion and is on her way to donate plasma to give her sister a fighting chance to survive .

If she was forced into taking the vaccine by work or by interstate travel nonsense or some of our major cities mandating this to function like going to restaurants or entering certain types of business then this opportunity would have been lost .

I am not anti vaccine . I am anti mandate or coerced taking of the vaccine

This situation was something that never would have occurred to me . I was all about screw you it’s my choice but now something else has entered the fray

I have had Covid twice and now I have the chance to donate plasma to help other victims of this virus and I will .

Hopefully my work won’t mandate it and will accept testing as an alternative and wearing a mask .

Hopefully we will stop this mandate madness and think things all the way through.

Because this opportunity will be lost and all because of pride

There are legit reasons not to take the vaccines

There are foolish ones out there as well

But why should I be denied on doing what I feel is right because of some power hungry bureaucrats who feel THEY know better and are unelected to boot ?

I beat this twice. The odds of getting it 3x is astronomical. So why can’t I make the choice that fits me ? Same with the players
This is the original statement .
first my wife donated , the DR asked for it , no bs
If she was vaccinated ( my wife ) it wouldn’t work no bs
Opportunity lost ( no bs )
Not anti vax anti mandates (no bs )
Legit reason not to vax ( no BS , I just gave one )
Foolish reasons not too ( no BS there are stupid ones )
It’s america and I have the right to analyze and manage risk and do what fits me that was in my statement. Data backs up my position
What you brought up wasn’t a part of the conversation at that point

You are 100% absolutely anti-vax. You're just lying your ass off. Its pretty ridiculous.

 

[gkekoa]

The problem with all these rules is they are anti-science And anti-freedom.

They are finally admitting that natural immunity is at least as good and probably better than the vaccine...possibly far better.

Yet, they still make rules that are forcing people to get the vaccine.

 

[Wolves008]

The problem with all these rules is they are anti-science And anti-freedom.

They are finally admitting that natural immunity is at least as good and probably better than the vaccine...possibly far better.

Yet, they still make rules that are forcing people to get the vaccine.

They're not anti-science. You can call them anti-freedom if you like, although I disagree.

The vaccine is better than nothing. Is natural immunization better than the vaccine? Maybe. But vaccination is better than nothing and it's better than getting covid.

I'm 31 and vaccinated. If I get covid I will get covid.

Assertions towrard my possible infection:

1) If I have no symptoms, nothing will change. I might infect people. Not my problem. That's a you thing.

2) If I have symptoms: vacation all I ever wanted!!!!! So glad to fuck off away!!!!

3) I get sick and die. I'm young and vaccinated. This is a negligible option. And if I'm wrong? I'm dead. So fuck it. Supremely unlikely. I'll take that chance.

 

[gkekoa]

They're not anti-science. You can call them anti-freedom if you like, although I disagree.

They are anti-science. When they are pushing the vaccine on people who have already had the illness, even though the science states that the immunity provided by recovery is as good and probably better than the vaccine, that is anti-science.

The vaccine is better than nothing. Is natural immunization better than the vaccine? Maybe. But vaccination is better than nothing and it's better than getting covid.

I agree that vaccine is better than nothing. No…natural immunity is superior to the vaccine…that is the science. Wait for this…and a vaccine to accompany natural immunity may be even better than natural immunity alone.

You completely miss the point. They make special rules trying to force people (even those with natural immunity) to get the vaccine, even though the immunity of a natural infection is greater. That is anti-science.

I'm 31 and vaccinated. If I get covid I will get covid.

I agree. Don’t know why you said it.

Assertions towrard my possible infection:

1) If I have no symptoms, nothing will change. I might infect people. Not my problem. That's a you thing.

2) If I have symptoms: vacation all I ever wanted!!!!! So glad to fuck off away!!!!

3) I get sick and die. I'm young and vaccinated. This is a negligible option. And if I'm wrong? I'm dead. So fuck it. Supremely unlikely. I'll take that chance.

I completely agree. So again, not sure why you bring it up.

 

[Wolves008]

They are anti-science. When they are pushing the vaccine on people who have already had the illness, even though the science states that the immunity provided by recovery is as good and probably better than the vaccine, that is anti-science.

I agree that vaccine is better than nothing. No…natural immunity is superior to the vaccine…that is the science. Wait for this…and a vaccine to accompany natural immunity may be even better than natural immunity alone.

You completely miss the point. They make special rules trying to force people (even those with natural immunity) to get the vaccine, even though the immunity of a natural infection is greater. That is anti-science.

I agree. Don’t know why you said it.

I completely agree. So again, not sure why you bring it up.

Aaaaand we're back to a non-sequitur.

"When they are pushing the vaccine on people who have already had the illness, even though the science states that the immunity provided by recovery is as good and probably better than the vaccine, "

Are you a scientist? Like, a professional one?. With a professional emphasis on virulent diseases? No? So maybe shut up. Otherwise, spell out your knowledge.

You're focused on the "anti-freedom" restrictions. I'm focused on the science. If you value personal freedom over personal safety, then fine. But own it. That's a you thing I'm uninterested in. Don't go "fapfapfap cuz science! and expect it to hit. Show your fucking math." Why is what you're talking about correct?

 

[gkekoa]

Aaaaand we're back to a non-sequitur.

"When they are pushing the vaccine on people who have already had the illness, even though the science states that the immunity provided by recovery is as good and probably better than the vaccine, "

No we are not. I made a statement. You proceeded to discuss my statement.

Are you a scientist? Like, a professional one?. With a professional emphasis on virulent diseases? No? So maybe shut up. Otherwise, spell out your knowledge.

Comparing SARS-CoV-2 natural immunity to vaccine-induced immunity: reinfections versus breakthrough infections

Background Reports of waning vaccine-induced immunity against COVID-19 have begun to surface. With that, the comparable long-term protection conferred by previous infection with SARS-CoV-2 remains unclear. Methods We conducted a retrospective observational study comparing three groups...

www.medrxiv.org

You're focused on the "anti-freedom" restrictions. I'm focused on the science. If you value personal freedom over personal safety, then fine. But own it. That's a you thing I'm uninterested in. Don't go "fapfapfap cuz science! and expect it to hit. Show your fucking math." Why is what you're talking about correct?

No you aren’t. The science states that natural immunity is better than the vaccine. You completely glossed over the fact that I said the vaccine after recovery may provide even greater protection.

I have already stated I value freedom over safety.

Now you can get the fuck off of our board and we won’t complain. Stop making shitty arguments and bullshit claims.

 

[gkekoa]

Aaaaand we're back to a non-sequitur.

"When they are pushing the vaccine on people who have already had the illness, even though the science states that the immunity provided by recovery is as good and probably better than the vaccine, "

Are you a scientist? Like, a professional one?. With a professional emphasis on virulent diseases? No? So maybe shut up. Otherwise, spell out your knowledge.

You're focused on the "anti-freedom" restrictions. I'm focused on the science. If you value personal freedom over personal safety, then fine. But own it. That's a you thing I'm uninterested in. Don't go "fapfapfap cuz science! and expect it to hit. Show your fucking math." Why is what you're talking about correct?

By the way, in a debate, when you ask about being a scientist or a virologist, then you tell people to shut up…that is called both an

ad hominem attack

and

an appeal to authority

 

[chillerdab]

Gekoka, you should clarify yourself by adding that you value “freedom over safety,” in this situation only.

You dont value freedom over safety in all body-related situations.

You arbitrarily value it in this one because it affects you personally.

Call the spade a spade, dude.

 

[gkekoa]

Gekoka, you should clarify yourself by adding that you value “freedom over safety,” in this situation only.

You dont value freedom over safety in all body-related situations.

You arbitrarily value it in this one because it affects you personally.

Call the spade a spade, dude.

I definitely value freedom over safety in this situation. I value freedom over safety in any situation where people can reasonably protect themselves as a whole if they choose to do so.

Abortion is different. It involves the death of another human.

The issue of COVID and the vaccine does not affect me. I have the vaccine. It is up to others if they want it.

 

[chillerdab]

We've been over this before. Some asshole not getting vaccinated can kill more than one person. Some asshole who is vaccinated can kill more than one person.

Since there are scenarios in which the results are the same, "freedom" is irrelevant, especially since it's applied by you differently to similar situations.

Abortion is similar in that somebody is imposting their will on other bodies. It is by that standard EXACTLY the same thing.

Your rationale is arbitrary. It has always been arbitrary, and it will always be arbitrary.

All the people who shriek "FREEDOM FROM MASK MANDATES!!!! FREEDOM FROM VAX MANDATES!!!!" while simaltaneously supporting and /or imposing abortion related mandates (see: Texas) are hypocritical pieces of shit, in my opinion.

And thus ends my thoughts on this thread for another ten days, give or take....

Have at it, gekoka

 

[gkekoa]

We've been over this before. Some asshole not getting vaccinated can kill more than one person. Some asshole who is vaccinated can kill more than one person.

Yes. A person who is vaccinated can get somebody killed by that same token.

Since there are scenarios in which the results are the same, "freedom" is irrelevant, especially since it's applied by you differently to similar situations.

Abortion is in no way similar to a virus. Abortion is guaranteed to end a life.

Abortion is similar in that somebody is imposting their will on other bodies. It is by that standard EXACTLY the same thing.

Abortion is not the same in any way. The person inside is not the mother’s body.

Your rationale is arbitrary. It has always been arbitrary, and it will always be arbitrary.

You have never once backed up this statement.

All the people who shriek "FREEDOM FROM MASK MANDATES!!!! FREEDOM FROM VAX MANDATES!!!!" while simaltaneously supporting and /or imposing abortion related mandates (see: Texas) are hypocritical pieces of shit, in my opinion.

It is funny that you think people who think purposely ending human life are hypocrites for believing people should be free to choose what goes into their body; yet, you don’t think you are a hypocrite for saying “my body my choice” and wanting a mandate when people can protect themselves by getting the vaccine. If you want to see a piece of shit…look into a mirror.

And thus ends my thoughts on this thread for another ten days, give or take....

Have at it, gekoka