Butler or Tomlin or BOTH...this DEF Needs To Go!

[steelerssb]

What's a huge shame is y'all know as well as I do, butler is going no where......
Tomlin doesn't have the sack to fire anyone......case and point, Haley.

He will be here until his contract is up, then they'll let him walk. But they will not shit can butler.

BRING LEBEAU BACK!!!!!
Oh wait, can't do that either.....he stood up to Tomlin and his D was a million times better than anything Tomlin could field.

Lebeau is probably done but I hear what your point is there.

What they need is new and young blood as a DC more in tune with the changing NFL, not another retread who has been in this system for years and not forced to adapt. Fitchner has grown on me and I think is doing for the most part fine (though his approach has been questionable lately), but that defense needs new perspectives and ideas.

Don't see that happening though

 

[Psych-Ward]

Lebeau is probably done but I hear what your point is there.

What they need is new and young blood as a DC more in tune with the changing NFL, not another retread who has been in this system for years and not forced to adapt. Fitchner has grown on me and I think is doing for the most part fine, but that defense needs new perspectives and ideas.

Don't see that happening though

Won't ever happen while Tomlin is there......
He thinks he's some super defensive guru, when in reality if defensive schemes were a wet dream, Tomlin would fuck them up!!!

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Lebeau is probably done but I hear what your point is there.

What they need is new and young blood as a DC more in tune with the changing NFL, not another retread who has been in this system for years and not forced to adapt. Fitchner has grown on me and I think is doing for the most part fine (though his approach has been questionable lately), but that defense needs new perspectives and ideas.

Don't see that happening though

DC...I think it's pretty clear that Butler is working around Tomlin's thumb prints with this DEF...the front seven has a lot of LeBeau influence, and the coverage schemes are Tomlin's. imo they need an independent thinker at the position...I think a guy like Romeo Cronnel, or Gus Bradley, would have this DEF in better shape if MT was not involved...I'm not real sure about Butler.

Talent...I saw one of the posts that reflected on the talent. I'm not one that really feels like PIT has great talent on DEF. There are certainly some very good players, but Burns, Sensabaugh, Burnett, Bostic have all started games for this team. Burnett has been more of an availability issue, but the other 3 are mediocre players at best. Even though I include Tomlin in this process, part of the reason PIT hasn't been able to get over the hump on DEF is the drafts have not been good.

Now this was brought to my attention by another Steeler fan who admittedly feels the Steelers draft MO is way outdated.

2018 draft...Steelers go into this draft needing; FS (Mike Mitchell was released) ILB as the top 2 needs. (Burns had not yet reached the depths his play has sank to now).

At 28, PIT takes Edmunds, S, VA Tech...@ 36 IND takes Darius Leonard, LB, SC St (same school Hargrave came from so they saw this kid)

At 60, PIT take James Washington, WR, OK ST...@ 68 HOU takes Justin Reid, S, Sanford.

Leonard's stat line

11 games started
Tackles...122
Solo...80
TFL...10
Sacks...6
QB hits...7
INT...1
PD...3
FF...4

This is a pro bowl caliber season this rookie is having. I'm not sure what was missing when PIT's scouts saw this kid, but Bostic is basically a 2 down LB that is decent.

Justin Reid hasn't leaped off the board with those kinds of stats, but in 8 starts I think his performance stacks up pretty well with Davis, Burnett, or Edmunds. Has 3 INT, 1 a pick 6, several passes defended.

The talent is better than what it was 2-3 years go. I know you're not going to get Derwin James picking where PIT has been picking the last 8 yrs or so, but when you're like PIT with an aging franchise QB, I think you need to be more aggressive moving around the board to get impact players and of course as this example just showed make better selections with the picks they have.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Won't ever happen while Tomlin is there......
He thinks he's some super defensive guru, when in reality if defensive schemes were a wet dream, Tomlin would fuck them up!!!

No doubt he would do a better job than this tandem is doing, but I think LeBeau is done.

I actually think Mike is a decent HC...put him in Tampa, and he probably has them winning 9-10 games a yr....but he would struggle to beat NO every year.

 

[SJ20]

Before Ryan Shazier got injured (which today makes one year) the Steelers had more than enough talent to win multiple Super Bowls over a 3-5 year stretch. The Offense alone with: Ben, AB, LB, Heath and a solid O-line. The Defense was mediocre at best but should have been enough with the Offensive firepower this team has had.

The major problem area was and still is the secondary. Now add ILB to the mix. Add Punter to the problem list and that is still a problem most teams wish they had. Mike Tomlin has done less with more than a lot of head coaches. His teams continue to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. The goal isn't to win an exact number of games each regular season only to fail in the playoffs. The goal is to win the Super Bowl every season. Of course that is impossible but that is the goal of a proud franchise such as the Pittsburgh Steelers. And this franchise hasn't won a Super Bowl in 10 years and many of them were wasted with this fraud in charge. Unacceptable.

 

[Psych-Ward]

@ATL96Steeler

Is it Finally Time for Keith Butler to Go?

Breaking down how Keith Butler cost the Steelers the game

Great articles.....But how these people writing these still suck up to Tomlin is mind boggling.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

@ATL96Steeler

Is it Finally Time for Keith Butler to Go?

Breaking down how Keith Butler cost the Steelers the game

Great articles.....But how these people writing these still suck up to Tomlin is mind boggling.

Ad Money or access probably...not the best HC as we know, but the word I get is he's a pretty good guy. To retain Munchak this long is kinda telling, I'm sure he could have another HC job by now.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

@ATL96Steeler

Is it Finally Time for Keith Butler to Go?

Breaking down how Keith Butler cost the Steelers the game

Great articles.....But how these people writing these still suck up to Tomlin is mind boggling.

Definitely needs to go. He's a creative blitz package guy, but his overall schemes are dated and NONE of it works without pressure. You see it as the game wears on once the defensive front gets tired and the pressure disappears, the defense gets wrecked.

And the writers failing to attribute any of the defensive failures to Tomlin is blasphemous.

It also doesn't help that they continuously fail to draft & acquire secondary players that fit their schemes. But that is an entirely different discussion.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

 

[Superbelt]

Thank God. Bring on the criticism, point out the absolute bullshit this team trots out every year.

Tomlin needs constant criticism to get the Rooney's on board with even considering a HC change.

Same with Butler, he doesn't have it. But I also don't want him to be Tomlin's scapegoat to save his job.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Rocky Bleier Weighs In On Pittsburgh: 'I'm Done,' Suggests They Could Move On From Tomlin - Steelers Depot

Not that I'm trying to get Tomlin fired, (his body of work is doing a good enough job there) but this thought could be gaining some traction.

IDK if it will happen or not, but if PIT gets bounced 1st playoff game in ugly fashion or they somehow miss the playoffs altogether...we might see a change at HC.

 

[Superbelt]

I'm liking these developments!

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

I'm liking these developments!

Yea I'm glad to see so many notable figures voicing their opinions. I'm hoping for more, but its a start.

Tomlin either needs to make some drastic changes in his approach or how he handles his coordinators, or else he needs to leave.

This team being stagnant with the amount of talent they've had over the last several years is absurd. And Tomlin's stats just keep getting worse & worse with the more power he has gained since Cowher's staff has left the building.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

 

[Psych-Ward]

 

[Psych-Ward]

 

[Psych-Ward]

 

[Psych-Ward]

 

[Psych-Ward]