Butler or Tomlin or BOTH...this DEF Needs To Go!

[ATL96Steeler]

I don't care which one of them wants to claim this DEF, but it's time for it go. No, this was not reminiscent of the AFCCG...it wasn't that bad.

In some cases the player is just in over his head (Artie Burns) But, scheme is killing the players in many cases too.

Film Room: Keith Butler Gave The Steelers No Chance - Steelers Depot

In the 2nd GIF...where Dupree slides out to cover #13...The Chargers best WR Keenan Allen...the one after that they have Fort covering the slot WR (Keenan Allen)...C'mon Butler!!!.

#13 is going to win thes battles 9 out of 10 times...Dupree and Fort are setup to fail before the ball is snapped. We saw something very similar to this with TJ Watt in the KC...def

This is the second time this year this blogger has broken down DEF tape and you scratch your head if you know anything about the game.

What scares me, well not really scare me anymore because I know what's going to happen...a loss most often...this regime STILLS seems to think that they can defend a proven QB with rushing 4 or 5 occasionally and playing zone behind it.

Unless you're the old SEA def with shutdown CBs and strong edge rushers, that ain't working...it didn't work against the last 5 games vs NE, it didn't work against KC in week 2, it didn't work vs LAC in week 13.

Instead of making any real changes, like mixing up man DEF and bringing enough heat to force QBs to make a great throw against coverage, throw it errantly, or eat it. I can point to 4 or 5 spots in the BAL @ ATL game where the Ravens did exactly that.

Tomlin will point to a few of the mistakes like Davis knocking Haden off his INT and keep trotting this crap out there until he's fired.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

The disrespect the Steelers showed Keenan Allen last night was unreal.... LBers covering an all-pro WR.

What could go wrong? Good work Butler/Tomlin. Congrats.

The only answer they have to fixing the defense, is getting Barnett back to full health so they can run the 3-S packages. Because they don't seem to trust anyone else with that scheme but Barnett.

 

[Ewa PGH Fan]

We keep saying how many times does it need to fail for them to finally change and they just keep trotting it out over and over and over again.

So at this point the 2 most responsible (Tomlin and Butler) for it need to go at season's end!!! Only way it will ever change IMO.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

We keep saying how many times does it need to fail for them to finally change and they just keep trotting it out over and over and over again.

So at this point the 2 most responsible (Tomlin and Butler) for it need to go at season's end!!! Only way it will ever change IMO.

We all know you're right (Tomlin and Butler are joined at the hip) but they will have to hit the skids on the level that GB has for Art II to fire Mike...Butler will probably be the scapegoat if anybody does get fired.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

Tomlin's level of ignorance is absurd. No doubt the main thing he is taking away from last night's game is that the refs blew it.

Get ready for more LBers covering the slot, and zone baby!

 

[SteelersPride]

Raiders’ Gareon Conley coming on as of late, putting up strong numbers in coverage | NFL Analysis | Pro Football Focus

remember when i said we should trade for conley, he could be had for a mid round pick

 

[Psych-Ward]

We all know you're right (Tomlin and Butler are joined at the hip) but they will have to hit the skids on the level that GB has for Art II to fire Mike...Butler will probably be the scapegoat if anybody does get fired.

Tomlin's level of ignorance is absurd. No doubt the main thing he is taking away from last night's game is that the refs blew it.

Get ready for more LBers covering the slot, and zone baby!

What's a huge shame is y'all know as well as I do, butler is going no where......
Tomlin doesn't have the sack to fire anyone......case and point, Haley.

He will be here until his contract is up, then they'll let him walk. But they will not shit can butler.

BRING LEBEAU BACK!!!!!
Oh wait, can't do that either.....he stood up to Tomlin and his D was a million times better than anything Tomlin could field.

 

[SteelersPride]

What's a huge shame is y'all know as well as I do, butler is going no where......
Tomlin doesn't have the sack to fire anyone......case and point, Haley.

He will be here until his contract is up, then they'll let him walk. But they will not shit can butler.

BRING LEBEAU BACK!!!!!
Oh wait, can't do that either.....he stood up to Tomlin and his D was a million times better than anything Tomlin could field.

what a difference a few weeks makes. some were pessimistic a week or two ago, but were all there now. Ive been saying were held together with sticks feathers and duct tape. and i think it just rained

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

Raiders’ Gareon Conley coming on as of late, putting up strong numbers in coverage | NFL Analysis | Pro Football Focus

remember when i said we should trade for conley, he could be had for a mid round pick

Doesn’t matter who they put out there. The schemes will set anyone up for failure.

 

[SteelersPride]

Doesn’t matter who they put out there. The schemes will set anyone up for failure.

just sying it was a steal

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

just sying it was a steal

Definitely. But the Steelers would have made him the next Artie Burns.

 

[Psych-Ward]

what a difference a few weeks makes. some were pessimistic a week or two ago, but were all there now. Ive been saying were held together with sticks feathers and duct tape. and i think it just rained

This is the same team that went 1-2-1 to start the season.

It was just masked behind 6 straight dominating wins.

Old adage, you can put sprinkles on a turd to make it look better, but it's still a turd.

 

[Psych-Ward]

Definitely. But the Steelers would have made him the next Artie Burns.

Not to sound like I'm taking up for burns, because he just sucks, no doubt......

But did you watch the 3 field goal attempts at the end of the game???
The center was twitching the ball....And it didn't get called.

I'm never one for blaming officiating on our shirt comings, but I have NEVER seen officials favor a tram like I saw yesterday.
That was god awful and the 6 worst calls cost us that game.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

Not to sound like I'm taking up for burns, because he just sucks, no doubt......

But did you watch the 3 field goal attempts at the end of the game???
The center was twitching the ball....And it didn't get called.

I'm never one for blaming officiating on our shirt comings, but I have NEVER seen officials favor a tram like I saw yesterday.
That was god awful and the 6 worst calls cost us that game.

Been sayin it all day but I firmly believe the Steelers have themselves more to blame for the loss than the refs. Sure they gifted them 17 points, but if the Steelers coaches had made some sort of half-assed attempt to make adjustments after halftime then they likely still win that game.

 

[Psych-Ward]

Been sayin it all day but I firmly believe the Steelers have themselves more to blame for the loss than the refs. Sure they gifted them 17 points, but if the Steelers coaches had made some sort of half-assed attempt to make adjustments after halftime then they likely still win that game.

It seems as if this team is incapable of making adjustments.

They looked good in the first half, the second half it just seemed the opposite.
Not to mention, how much wind gets taken out of your sails when you get screwed over time and time again. Not that that is an excuse, but these guys became more and more lackadaisical with every shit call on them.....

Wonder if Pittsburgh Dad will be sharing a beer with the penalty flag this week.....

 

[SJ20]

Best thread ever! Agree with pretty much everything. We wont realize this team's true ability until Mike Tomlin and this WHOLE Defensive and Special Teams coaching regime is gone. Of course Butler is terrible, but Tomlin has been failing longer.

The problem is, only us Steelers fans understand this. Fans of some of the other NFL teams will call us crazy because Tomlin and his whole never having a losing season crap, blah, blah, blah. They must root for losing franchises. This franchise has been built to be a perennial championship winner. Nothing more, nothing less is expected. Under Mike Tomlin it has become a circus. He should have been fired the night he tripped Jacoby Jones. Tomlin is all talk and that is all he will ever be. Never seen someone given so much talent yet get so little out of it. Well, he's not fooling us.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

What's a huge shame is y'all know as well as I do, butler is going no where......
Tomlin doesn't have the sack to fire anyone......case and point, Haley.

He will be here until his contract is up, then they'll let him walk. But they will not shit can butler.

BRING LEBEAU BACK!!!!!
Oh wait, can't do that either.....he stood up to Tomlin and his D was a million times better than anything Tomlin could field.

Yeah...true...not exactly a firing...LeBeau, Arians, Haley...all contracts not terminated, just not renewed.

I think in reality what the Steelers are doing is a hybrid of LeBeau's base and blitz schemes...because that's what Butler cut his teeth on. The coverages outside and backend are more in line with Tomlin's tampa2 background. And that imo is the worse part of the DEF. LeBeau played a lot of zone too, but pressing at the LOS was routine.

That zone based DEF works against the majority of QBs in the league, that's why the majority of teams do it...but when you go up against the elite QBs, it simply does not work in todays NFL with the rules like they are now...WRs like Keenan Allen were not roaming the middle of the field going for a buck 50 back in the 70s, 80s or even 90s.

Even though in my mind he's bordering on the edge of insanity (you know, doing the same thing over and over and and expecting a different outcome) Tomlin is not a fool, he has to know that allowing free release off the LOS so they can run drags across the zone against mismatched LBs or go find the soft spot and turnaround proven vet QBs are going to feast on that concept of a DEF. Your only hope is tackle well, maybe you get a FF/tipped ball/int, and finally every so often one of the 4 or 5 rushers will get home. That imo is conceding 300+ yds from the opening gun.

The bottomline imo is Tomlin/Butler do not think the CBs can hold up playing man, and bringing enough heat to dictate to the OFC. The day we see that vs NE or any of these top QBs, they will either go down in flames or they might just do something like win one of these games again. I just don't think we're going to see it under Tomlin. Reid's
CBs/backend imo is no better than PIT's, but watch the tape of their game vs NE...they were manning up on the WRs and bringing heat. Tomlin as you said doesn't have the balls.

 

[Psych-Ward]

Yeah...true...not exactly a firing...LeBeau, Arians, Haley...all contracts not terminated, just not renewed.

I think in reality what the Steelers are doing is a hybrid of LeBeau's base and blitz schemes...because that's what Butler cut his teeth on. The coverages outside and backend are more in line with Tomlin's tampa2 background. And that imo is the worse part of the DEF. LeBeau played a lot of zone too, but pressing at the LOS was routine.

That zone based DEF works against the majority of QBs in the league, that's why the majority of teams do it...but when you go up against the elite QBs, it simply does not work in todays NFL with the rules like they are now...WRs like Keenan Allen were not roaming the middle of the field going for a buck 50 back in the 70s, 80s or even 90s.

Even though in my mind he's bordering on the edge of insanity (you know, doing the same thing over and over and and expecting a different outcome) Tomlin is not a fool, he has to know that allowing free release off the LOS so they can run drags across the zone against mismatched LBs or go find the soft spot and turnaround proven vet QBs are going to feast on that concept of a DEF. Your only hope is tackle well, maybe you get a FF/tipped ball/int, and finally every so often one of the 4 or 5 rushers will get home. That imo is conceding 300+ yds from the opening gun.

The bottomline imo is Tomlin/Butler do not think the CBs can hold up playing man, and bringing enough heat to dictate to the OFC. The day we see that vs NE or any of these top QBs, they will either go down in flames or they might just do something like win one of these games again. I just don't think we're going to see it under Tomlin. Reid's
CBs/backend imo is no better than PIT's, but watch the tape of their game vs NE...they were manning up on the WRs and bringing heat. Tomlin as you said doesn't have the balls.

Tomlin's tramp 2 nor butlers hybrid crap is going to work without one, AT LEAST 1 shut down corner or a safety the likes of Troy.

There is no one in our secondary to put fear in even a mediocre QB.....thus if they don't apply pressure to force a QB to hurry, our secondary gets picked clean like that one chicken leg in an orphanage.

IMO none of the 3 coaches have a damn clue......
By way of injury, a no name guy gets plugged in and wham, they make an impact.
And yet the guys that can't get the job done are left to hang around this team forever......
Tomlin never looks for the talent he has on his own bench, he's just keeps going with the same lame shit and the same worthless players.
As you started, Hargrove....do we ever get to see what a beast he is unless Tuitt gets hurt??? I doubt it, not that Tuitt isn't a damn good player but you get what I'm saying.....
And there Ares how many players we have seen like this.....I can count at least a half dozen.
Tomlin is a hypocrite, next man up my ass....ONLY if it doesn't upset one of his besties.....that's not Steeler football....And Tomlin will NEVER get it. Even if he gets fired tomorrow, he'll never understand what a fuck up he is.

 

[steelerssb]

I'm also wondering why the hell this team played Spence right off the couch instead of Fort last season when he was flashing this ability

 

[steelerssb]

But to the thread it's probably on Butler here. I just can't for the life of me understand using a linebacker (who isn't exactly Shazier in coverage) on one of football's top 5 receivers.

But Tomlin isn't free of blame either for having the oversight of letting it happen