Broncos O-line, Kubs and the ZBS

[MileHigh64]

A lot has been made of Petyon Manning's fit in Kubiak's WC offensive scheme but the real issue for the Broncos IMO is how our backs and line will make this transition.

I think Montee Ball, Ronnie Hillman, CJ Anderson and Juwan Thompson just hit the lottery with the hiring of Kubiak. These backs are going to get a chance to show that they can be the one cut type of player that fits into this scheme but I don't expect the installation of this offense to hit it's stride right away.

The biggest question to me is what the Broncos do with their current players on the offensive line. Orlando Franklin seemed to grade out the highest during the divisional playoff game but this line was not necessarily built for the zone blocking scheme. My recollection of the Shanahan era Broncos was that our lineman were generally smaller and more athletic. In recent years, the Broncos lineman have fallen more into the big and powerful category.

Montgomery is a free agent, we've seen nothing of Paradis and Schofield and questions remain about the rest of the gang as well. How will Clady, Franklin, Ramirez and Vasquez fare in the new scheme that is undoubtedly coming?

I believe if Manning comes back, he and Kubiak will be able to devise an effective offense without Peyton having to scramble or bootleg much but that will only be effective if our running game is top notch. I think Kubiak was a good hire by the Broncos but there are just so many questions heading into next season.

I'm curious to get the thoughts of others on this board. Will Kubiak's hire come with a full return to the ZBS or will it be a hybrid? Can our current personnel execute zone blocking? A ton of question marks! Go Broncos!

MH64

 

[randymon]

The more I think about the Kubiak hiring and as you mentioned,there is going to be an overhaul of the current offensive line more toward the z blkg scheme and to be a more run heavy offense going forward. Lates face it, all this talk about the ground game being not as important or prevalent in todays NFL is starting to go the wayside. Which teams are winning and being legitimate contenders?? The run first/pass 2nd teams, just like the `ol days. I have to consider that the Kubiak hiring might actually tend more toward Oz and the future for Denver. You need a qb that can use his legs more and at least have the threat of picking up yards when need be. I casn`t imagine Kubiak and Elway are thinking that they can win a SB without some semblance of how Seattle and NE are having so much succsess. Manning is a one-dimensional qb. That`s why his record is what it is in playoffs,etc. Elway now realizises that Manning is`nt the answer. Their going to go Oz and the running game plus more focus on the D or bust IMO. Manning has had his last shot IMO

 

[Broncosr0k]

That`s why his record is what it is in playoffs,etc. Elway now realizises that Manning is`nt the answer. Their going to go Oz and the running game plus more focus on the D or bust IMO. Manning has had his last shot IMO

Not sure I quite agree. Manning not being able to make plays with his legs is part of the issue but historically Manning's teams have been mediocre defense, mediocre run (at best), and easy division. That contributes to early exits. Luck's colts are shaping up the same way. Successful teams typically have a decent defense and can make plays in both run and pass. That makes it harder to shut down and offense and a decent defense can keep you in it. (See Seattle's game Sunday.)

It also takes getting hot at the right time. The 2012 Ravens got it together in the playoffs and were playing better ball. That part is not so easy.

 

[cdumler7]

Few things about our OL and the switch to the ZBS...I think Franklin if we resign him will do well. Before this season I would say no to such a thing as he had not shown the ability to pull or get out and move. After watching him the 2nd half of this season though I am actually interested to see what he could do in this system. I honestly though would put him back out at RT in the ZBS. You need just a bit more speed on the inside than what he offers but I think he would be great at those push out blocks or the back side seal block that allows for such big cut back lanes. I then would try out Schofield on the inside as I think he has that speed that you are looking for.

Next with the move of Franklin back to RT that allows Vasquez to move back inside. He actually played in a ZBS with the Chargers before he came here so I don't think he would have any problem making the switch back.

That just leaves one position in my opinion...Center. Not sure what to do with this position. Honestly I am hoping we go the FA market for this one and then hope Paradis has developed enough to be added to the actual roster for at least back up. In the FA market we have the opportunity to actually cripple one of our division rivals as the top-2 Centers hitting the FA market are Rodney Hudson of the Chiefs and Stefen Wisniewski of the Raiders. I think Hudson fits the ZBS a little better and I honestly think he is one of the most underrated players.

So with all of that I think that leads to an improved OL play. Beyond that though will be the difference in coaching that this line gets. They are going to go from a very simple power blocking (just go get the guy in front of you) to what we have been used to for so long in seeing the OL almost look like an art form with what they all do. Plus I just remember teams hated playing us because of the chop blocks by the OL. DL's were so wore out by the time the 4th quarter came around with having to jump over OL players that they just let you run over them. Very much looking forward to the having a thousand yard RB every season type team once again.

 

[cdumler7]

Also I do think Clady will do better with this system. He is not really a power blocking type build. Hopefully another off season to heal up his foot gets his speed back as he looked pretty flat footed this past year. He also started out his career playing in this type of system under Shanahan so I think he was drafted with the ZBS in mind.

 

[WalkerBoh]

Introduced as Broncos head coach Tuesday, Gary Kubiak dismissed the notion that Peyton Manning is not a fit for the West Coast offense Kubiak runs. Kubiak stressed he'll build a scheme around his players' talents, not fit them into a rigid system.
"It's easy to build a playbook for him," Kubiak said of Manning. "He's been the master at it for many, many years. You're talking about a Hall of Fame player, Hall of Fame person."
Manning certainly isn't suited for the bootlegs and rollouts Kubiak is fond of. Kubiak said he views his role as being "the best support system" he can be for Manning.
"We're going to do what the players do best," Kubiak said.
Kubiak said he's already talked to Manning extensively, mainly about family and non-football issues. Manning, who must decide by March 9 whether he'll return next season, will undergo a physical next month that could affect his decision.Kubiak said he embraces the high expectations in Denver and thanked team ownership for "bringing me home." The former Ravens offensive coordinator and Texans head coach said he loves calling plays but "if things work out," others will be involved in playcalling.

Gary Kubiak: 'Easy to build a playbook' for Peyton Manning : Fantasy News

 

[cdumler7]

This is a great video on the ZBS and what the Broncos will be working to do. This is Alex Gibbs and I love his no nonsense attitude in he has no problem ripping into HOF players for not doing their job well. I will warn you the video has some language so if at work I wouldn't recommend watching this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNa3gZfQfH0

Also just want to point out that actually this past year we used the ZBS quite a bit so I don't think it is going to be that big of a transition for our guys as some might think.

Also here is a good article breaking down each player and their fit within the system...

Kubiak'''s '''zone blocking system''' should play to Broncos''' O-Line strengths - Mile High Report

 

[randymon]

This is a great video on the ZBS and what the Broncos will be working to do. This is Alex Gibbs and I love his no nonsense attitude in he has no problem ripping into HOF players for not doing their job well. I will warn you the video has some language so if at work I wouldn't recommend watching this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNa3gZfQfH0

Also just want to point out that actually this past year we used the ZBS quite a bit so I don't think it is going to be that big of a transition for our guys as some might think.

Also here is a good article breaking down each player and their fit within the system...

Kubiak'''s '''zone blocking system''' should play to Broncos''' O-Line strengths - Mile High Report

Great links CD. Good read on ZB and how the writer views the current o line roster and rbs. Be nice if they didn't have to fix too much so they can use draft pks/money elsewhere where needed. If in A.

 

[Mondo Jay]

This is a great video on the ZBS and what the Broncos will be working to do. This is Alex Gibbs and I love his no nonsense attitude in he has no problem ripping into HOF players for not doing their job well. I will warn you the video has some language so if at work I wouldn't recommend watching this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNa3gZfQfH0

Also just want to point out that actually this past year we used the ZBS quite a bit so I don't think it is going to be that big of a transition for our guys as some might think.

Also here is a good article breaking down each player and their fit within the system...

Kubiak'''s '''zone blocking system''' should play to Broncos''' O-Line strengths - Mile High Report

Those are great links. Thanks.

 

[Broncosballer32]

The best coaches are the ones that utilizes the talent that is on the team and slowly builds a team according to their philosophy.

When Shanahan took over the job in 1995, he had Elway. Elway, was always best suited to the "west coast stretch run offense." Elway thrived in it at Stanford, where Bill Walsh had brought there in the mid 1970s. That means not only was Elway physically suited to play it (mobile QB with a brain) but he also had the nomenclature down, which is not a small thing.

In this case with Kubiak, I am not sure he has the QBs that have these skills. OZ is more mobile, but is not as accurate and probably does not have the brain. Manning imo is limited physically, but does have a brain.

I think Elway has been trying to sculpt this team to be that team we all knew under Shanahan. From the drafting of OZ, to Montee Ball (who has the virtual identical physical dimensions as Terrell) and hiring of Alex Gibbs. Look, Manning was a sort of stop gap QB and a perfect way to get rid of the Tebow circus which he was desperate to do.

I think the OL can operate that system. I think they have been educated in it over the last few years. I think they do have the RBs to run the zone read, especially with CJ Anderson who is the perfect type of runner in that system.

Balance is the key to any team whose goal is to win the Lombardi. This system is virtually entirely predicated on balance. The question I have is the one element that seems to be totally lost in the stretch run that was so important for the Broncos in the mid 90s was a dynamic blocking FB. Anyone remember the importance of Howard Griffith? He was a very valuable piece and I would personally love to see a great blocking FB in front of CJ Anderson.

 

[randymon]

The best coaches are the ones that utilizes the talent that is on the team and slowly builds a team according to their philosophy.

When Shanahan took over the job in 1995, he had Elway. Elway, was always best suited to the "west coast stretch run offense." Elway thrived in it at Stanford, where Bill Walsh had brought there in the mid 1970s. That means not only was Elway physically suited to play it (mobile QB with a brain) but he also had the nomenclature down, which is not a small thing.

In this case with Kubiak, I am not sure he has the QBs that have these skills. OZ is more mobile, but is not as accurate and probably does not have the brain. Manning imo is limited physically, but does have a brain.

I think Elway has been trying to sculpt this team to be that team we all knew under Shanahan. From the drafting of OZ, to Montee Ball (who has the virtual identical physical dimensions as Terrell) and hiring of Alex Gibbs. Look, Manning was a sort of stop gap QB and a perfect way to get rid of the Tebow circus which he was desperate to do.

I think the OL can operate that system. I think they have been educated in it over the last few years. I think they do have the RBs to run the zone read, especially with CJ Anderson who is the perfect type of runner in that system.

Balance is the key to any team whose goal is to win the Lombardi. This system is virtually entirely predicated on balance. The question I have is the one element that seems to be totally lost in the stretch run that was so important for the Broncos in the mid 90s was a dynamic blocking FB. Anyone remember the importance of Howard Griffith? He was a very valuable piece and I would personally love to see a great blocking FB in front of CJ Anderson.

I`ll second that.

 

[WalkerBoh]

Hmmmm..... I seem to remember a discussion last offseason on the merits of having a full back......

 

[WalkerBoh]

Jake Plummer ran this offense successfully. If he can do it, I'm pretty confident Osweiler has the brains to do so.

 

[randymon]

Yeah Walker it was brought up and most slam dunked it. I was not one. I think if used "creatively" as in play action off of.... it would do well. Of course you need a very good FB

 

[cdumler7]

I think the Fullback argument last year/this year was more geared towards the type of offense that we had and just how little use they were going to be. When we switched to Manning more under center for the last part of the season though that offense definitely could have benefited and I think the new offense that Kubiak brings it could definitely be used.

Now this next season all depends on what Manning decides to do. I agree that he is not all that suited to run the system that Kubiak likes to run. They would have to come up with a hybrid type offense that mixes both Manning and Kubiak's philosophies together. They are two great offensive minds though so I would trust they would figure it out pretty well. I do however think that Osweiler was thought of in this hire. I think he fits perfectly into this type of zone stretch bootleg type offense. He has underrated legs in my opinion and a cannon for an arm. It is a matter of him getting the offense down though. This past preseason and a little of the season though showed me he can be accurate enough and with the receivers we have in DT and Sanders honestly they should be blowing by Corners when we run the bootleg offense. We right now have our top-3 receivers (DT, Sanders, and Latimer) who all run Sub-4.4 forty time. Should be fun to watch.

 

[randymon]

I wonder if we get the big shock that we all don`t think will happen and Manning retires,how much of that decision will be based on the fact that Elway and Kubiak are prepared to go with a strong run game that also features a more athletic qb such as Oz. Whatever transpires,it sure would be nice to have a qb that at least has the threat/potential to execute a QB sneak at least. That factor,or lack of, has certainly not helped Denver last couple yrs in goal line situations, not to mention all the other advantages that come with that type of qb. Many might not think it`s that big a deal, but I beg to differ. Just thinking out loud. Gottas to run. After that exhilerating half-time performance, I`am going to buy every Katy Pary cd I can find!!!!!

 

[Broncosballer32]

Yes, in the ZBS, the fullback certainly plays a crucial role.

 

[randymon]

Now that brings back sweet memories. Wouldn`t mind seeing that look again in Denver. Gots to find that FB and that`s no easy task ifina they go that route.