Brady Quetionable

[NWPATSFAN]

It has nothing to do with it. And to be truthful there was a lot of upside to Brady and teams knew that. Hell the Pats had him rated higher then where they took but other players of interest kept dropping. Brady had proven his worth and had already earned the rep of being able to win from behind. I really don't think you can compare the two, but if you fell compelled so be it.

Let me put this out there front and foremost. I do not think D. Ettling is the next TB12. But one never knows. Check out these numbers:
Brady's senior year;
180 completions, 295 attempts, 61.0%, 2217 yards, 7.5 Y/A, 16 TD, 6 INT, 138.0 rating

Etling senior year:

146 completions, 242 attempts, 60.3%, 2234 yards, 9.2 Y/A, 14 TD, 2 INT, 155.3 rating, one of the INTs was a Fail Mary

We obviously know who's more mobile.

 

[YankeeRebel]

I feel more then compelled.
You're talking jibberish.
Brady went #199 his pro day numbers were terrible. If there were more thana handful that had him going sooner I'd be shocked. He couldn't even hold a starter position at Michigan. He lost out to two others. How long have you been watching football?

Not sure why you won't accept the fact these players could have similiar careers? If Bledsoe didn't get hurt we still may not know what TB turned out to be. I'm just saying don't be so definitive. We DON'T know at this point.

Did you watch him at Michigan?

And as I said if you feel compelled to make some asinine comparison have at it. I'll wait and see. Time is the only factor that will matter. We wait and we see and I am more than okay saying I don't think Etling is the answer. And I say that based on watching a lot of SEC Football.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Did you watch him at Michigan?

And as I said if you feel compelled to make some asinine comparison have at it. I'll wait and see. Time is the only factor that will matter. We wait and we see and I am more than okay saying I don't think Etling is the answer. And I say that based on watching a lot of SEC Football.

You're trying way too hard here.
No need to you basically betting the field saying Ettling isn't the answer. Way to step out there.

Asinine!
Did you see the numbers I posted? Those aren't asinine difference. Yes I watched Brady when he was on the field. Just like I did Ettling. Not every game which I doubt you did either.

Once again all we are saying is we don't know Ettling can be. Could NE do a lot better could they do a lot worse? Time will tell that's what most of us are saying.

So who do you see replacing Brady? At what cost?

 

[BigKen]

If this was still week 8 or so I may agree? But OTAs and voluntary camps aren't what's affecting his poor throws. He's had plenty of time to regain trust(not that it needed much) he played with these guys long enough. The injuries are what's hurting them IMO.

Brady is not practicing like he did two, three or five years ago. He's doing what is required to keep him off the injury report. Not Week 2, week 8, week 12, doesn't matter, Brady has not been anywhere near where he has been in the past. Throwing 13 passes for 148 yards is way off. That's 13 yards a catch and alot of that was a couple of yards after the catch.

@Southieinnc and @Carnzo may be right, age has suddenly shown it's face for Brady and Gronk's body may be telling him to quit before it does. Wanting to do something and being able to do it are two entirely different things. If you haven't reached 40 you don't understand what happens. Let alone 50, 60 or 70. The NFL is a young man's game and it takes a toll every year one plays. Serious injuries make the longetivity less.

If your going to play A-N-D perform at the top level that is required in the NFL, you can't blow off even the least physical practices and team events, especially at 40 years old. Being suspended and losing last year due to a knee injury has affected Edelman and he's not playing like he did prior.

How much longer can the team revolve around these three guys? As painful as it will be, when will the management make some moves that will be for the 'long' term and not be waiting to pick through the leftovers in free agency and make picks in the draft for 'need' and not for depth or to not follow anything but his own path.

I don't want to get into guys that BB refused to take because he didn't want to let anyone influence his decisions and All-Pros went elsewhere.

I guess what I'm really trying to say is this......If Brady can't get back to 2015,16 or even 2017, then it is time for him to move on. As the league speed and power increases, being frozen in a pocket is becoming a death defying act. It's also becoming a forula for failure if the QB can't move quick enough to extend a play.

 

[YankeeRebel]

You're trying way too hard here.
No need to you basically betting the field saying Ettling isn't the answer. Way to step out there.

Asinine!
Did you see the numbers I posted? Those aren't asinine difference. Yes I watched Brady when he was on the field. Just like I did Ettling. Not every game which I doubt you did either.

Once again all we are saying is we don't know Ettling can be. Could NE do a lot better could they do a lot worse? Time will tell that's what most of us are saying.

So who do you see replacing Brady? At what cost?

I am very comfortable saying Etling is not the answer and yes I saw the numbers and they mean very little as number so often do. Granted his Senior year numbers are an improvement from his less than stellar career numbers at Purdue and LSU but again a lot of factors go into those numbers. And I too am not saying we don't look at the kid I just don't "Think" he will have a lot of success at this level.

This conversation was started because it was posted that the team should take a look at Etling this game which was a stupid proposition there is still a lot at stake with this game. And if the Pats were going to play anyone other than TB this game it needs to be Hoyer as he is still the back up QB. If the Pats really want to take a look at him he needs to earn that and it needs to be next pre-season.

As far as hope for the future there is only one college prospect at QB that I am fond of at this point as it relates to the NFL game and that is Fromm from UGA and he still needs at least one more year in that system. But that being said I can't see the Pats having a shot at him when he comes out.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Brady is not practicing like he did two, three or five years ago. He's doing what is required to keep him off the injury report. Not Week 2, week 8, week 12, doesn't matter, Brady has not been anywhere near where he has been in the past. Throwing 13 passes for 148 yards is way off. That's 13 yards a catch and alot of that was a couple of yards after the catch.

@Southieinnc and @Carnzo may be right, age has suddenly shown it's face for Brady and Gronk's body may be telling him to quit before it does. Wanting to do something and being able to do it are two entirely different things. If you haven't reached 40 you don't understand what happens. Let alone 50, 60 or 70. The NFL is a young man's game and it takes a toll every year one plays. Serious injuries make the longetivity less.

If your going to play A-N-D perform at the top level that is required in the NFL, you can't blow off even the least physical practices and team events, especially at 40 years old. Being suspended and losing last year due to a knee injury has affected Edelman and he's not playing like he did prior.

How much longer can the team revolve around these three guys? As painful as it will be, when will the management make some moves that will be for the 'long' term and not be waiting to pick through the leftovers in free agency and make picks in the draft for 'need' and not for depth or to not follow anything but his own path.

I don't want to get into guys that BB refused to take because he didn't want to let anyone influence his decisions and All-Pros went elsewhere.

I guess what I'm really trying to say is this......If Brady can't get back to 2015,16 or even 2017, then it is time for him to move on. As the league speed and power increases, being frozen in a pocket is becoming a death defying act. It's also becoming a forula for failure if the QB can't move quick enough to extend a play.

I think NE makes a move on one of these three this year.
As for how much he's practicing now I'll have to take your word for it. I only know what the media reports. That seems to be on par with past years.
I know all too well the ill effects of aging unfortunately. 30 years of ground pounding will do that to you.
I think Brady rehabs off-season and comes back for a decent year. Hell he's never been quick enough to extend a play. Nothing has changed there.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

I am very comfortable saying Etling is not the answer and yes I saw the numbers and they mean very little as number so often do. Granted his Senior year numbers are an improvement from his less than stellar career numbers at Purdue and LSU but again a lot of factors go into those numbers. And I too am not saying we don't look at the kid I just don't "Think" he will have a lot of success at this level.

This conversation was started because it was posted that the team should take a look at Etling this game which was a stupid proposition there is still a lot at stake with this game. And if the Pats were going to play anyone other than TB this game it needs to be Hoyer as he is still the back up QB. If the Pats really want to take a look at him he needs to earn that and it needs to be next pre-season.

As far as hope for the future there is only one college prospect at QB that I am fond of at this point as it relates to the NFL game and that is Fromm from UGA and he still needs at least one more year in that system. But that being said I can't see the Pats having a shot at him when he comes out.

I'm with you on this game still has meaning and ALL the starters need to be playing. As well as Ettling can earn playing time based on next preseason.
I'm not ready to give up on him yet especially considering the prospects and or bringing in any FAs that would be a huge improvement over Hoyer.

 

[YankeeRebel]

I'm with you on this game still has meaning and ALL the starters need to be playing. As well as Ettling can earn playing time based on next preseason.
I'm not ready to give up on him yet especially considering the prospects and or bringing in any FAs that would be a huge improvement over Hoyer.

I dont' disagree I just don't feel he is the answer and I am more then cool with giving him a shot next pre-season. I would love to see him beat out Hoyer.

 

[Yankee Traveler]

I damn sure don't think Etling is the answer

Neither do I.
Nor do I think Hoyer is the answer.
Hoyer, with all his starting experience, has zero trade value.

If Etling is allowed to play and play well, he may develop into a trade-able commodity.

 

[Yankee Traveler]

I wonder if TB, JE and Gronk are blaming BB for banning Guerro (sp)? All three playing bad this season.

Guerrero has been back at Gillette and on the team plane all season.

 

[Yankee Traveler]

That Brady character turned out pretty well. He wasn't considered the answer either that's what it has to do with this. We just don't know?

This.
Bledsoe was a GREAT QB. Borderline HOF.

Then he got hurt and was suddenly exposed as the second greatest Pats QB ever.

Would Etling do the same? I doubt it.
Could he be the second coming of Cassell? Yeah, I could see that.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Guerrero has been back at Gillette and on the team plane all season.

Really?
I knew he made at least one flight.
But he's actually back in Gillete working with players?

 

[NWPATSFAN]

This.
Bledsoe was a GREAT QB. Borderline HOF.

Then he got hurt and was suddenly exposed as the second greatest Pats QB ever.

Would Etling do the same? I doubt it.
Could he be the second coming of Cassell? Yeah, I could see that.

I've watched football a long time. I've seen the Ryan Leafs to the Curt Warners. Never count your chickens...
Again this isn't saying Etling is the next Brady. We may never see that again.

 

[Yankee Traveler]

Really?
I knew he made at least one flight.
But he's actually back in Gillete working with players?

Yes. I read that on NESN or something.

I will try to dig it up.

 

[BigKen]

We can argue the merits and the debits all day.

How about this? Brady did not attend any (none) of the off season voluntary workouts, OTAs or mini camps. At forty years old, do you think that this was a wise decision? Was vacationing in Atlantis and spend a few weeks in the Med as resting and worthwile as the time spent off during the off season sessions?

Brady himself has repeatedly said that the voluntary programs were as necessary as the mandatory ones, yet he chose not to attend.

Personally, and this is my opinion, that not taking part in those off season voluntary programs has hurt Brady's overall performance this year. He's just not as sharp with his throws and he doesn't appear to have the repoire with his WRs that he's had in the past. I've got all of the wins on DVR and I've watched them all at least three times each (I can't rewatch losses) and Brady just doesn't seem to be the Brady of 2016 or 2017. I won't compare him to any earlier years.

 

[YankeeRebel]

Neither do I.
Nor do I think Hoyer is the answer.
Hoyer, with all his starting experience, has zero trade value.

If Etling is allowed to play and play well, he may develop into a trade-able commodity.

Maybe but if he plays and plays well, that means the Pats may see something in him, I don't know. But at some point, and very soon this team needs to consider the replacement for TB12, they need to stop dragging their heals on this.

And this is a shitty QB class this year.

 

[Carnzo]

I agree that off season voluntary programs matter greatly to a forty year old.
Wished he didn't miss them but it is what it is.

 

[BigKen]

Ben watching the Houston game and just got to the end of the first half. 21-6 Patriots.

Brady is throwing darts. Best receiver of the day so far is Philip Dorsett. He just scored the third TD and caught three other passes during the drive. Pats started at theirown 28 with 1:43 remaining in half.

Fast forwarding 16 weeks, I can only wonder why Dorsett has not been a bigger part of this offense all year. In Game one he has not missed or dropped a ball.

Gronk was fast and very agile, not the guy we've been watching over the past month.

What a difference 4 months can make.

I miss Jeremy Hill too. What a difference he could make now.

 

[Southieinnc]

I am very comfortable saying Etling is not the answer and yes I saw the numbers and they mean very little as number so often do. Granted his Senior year numbers are an improvement from his less than stellar career numbers at Purdue and LSU but again a lot of factors go into those numbers. And I too am not saying we don't look at the kid I just don't "Think" he will have a lot of success at this level.

This conversation was started because it was posted that the team should take a look at Etling this game which was a stupid proposition there is still a lot at stake with this game. And if the Pats were going to play anyone other than TB this game it needs to be Hoyer as he is still the back up QB. If the Pats really want to take a look at him he needs to earn that and it needs to be next pre-season.

As far as hope for the future there is only one college prospect at QB that I am fond of at this point as it relates to the NFL game and that is Fromm from UGA and he still needs at least one more year in that system. But that being said I can't see the Pats having a shot at him when he comes out.

I agree with most of your post.
As far as the QB, I'm for the one not seen yet.....

 

[YankeeRebel]

Ben watching the Houston game and just got to the end of the first half. 21-6 Patriots.

Brady is throwing darts. Best receiver of the day so far is Philip Dorsett. He just scored the third TD and caught three other passes during the drive. Pats started at theirown 28 with 1:43 remaining in half.

Fast forwarding 16 weeks, I can only wonder why Dorsett has not been a bigger part of this offense all year. In Game one he has not missed or dropped a ball.

Gronk was fast and very agile, not the guy we've been watching over the past month.

What a difference 4 months can make.

I miss Jeremy Hill too. What a difference he could make now.

The run game is not the problem IMO, not sure I would take Hill over Michel or White Burkhead maybe